How would YOU tie together the KOTOR endings?

[Ivan the Terrible]

In order for a sequel to work, you can't make two seperate games based upon the decisions made in the first, and yet of course KOTOR II allows us to choose what happened in the first game.

 

Therefore, the two endings of KOTOR have to meet on common ground. They have to lead the player to the rough set-up of KOTOR II. Given the disparity in outcomes between the Light Side and Dark Side endings of KOTOR, that's a pretty hefty task.

 

So if YOU were a designer on KOTOR II, how would you reconcile the difference? If the player chooses a Light Side ending for the first game, how would you explain the Sith winning everywhere at the start of KOTOR II when the Star Forge is gone and the Sith fleet seemingly decimated in front of it? If the player chooses Dark Side, how would you conveniently remove such a massive plot problem as the Star Forge from the equation, while sending a Revan who now is seemingly the undisputed master of the Sith armada into exile?

[Tyrell]

Easy, just have two different solutions. If you chose the LS ending, come up with a solution telling why the Sith came back all of a sudden.

 

If you chose the DS ending come up with a solution telling how Revan being the Dark Lord of the Sith all of a sudden vanishing etc....

 

It doesn't require a rocket scientist, but it does require a good imagination with story telling. And if told well, it would work, if it isn't, then I guess we are all SOL ha?

[EnderAndrew]

Before you destroy the Star Forge, the Sith were decimating the Republic Fleet.

 

And the Star Forge was pumping out ships for quite some time before the Republic stumbled upon it. So while you destroyed the Star Forge, the Republic was already crippled, and the Sith had other ships around the galaxy to spare. Tons of Jedi died on the Star Forge, and Dantooine was bombed to smitherines.

 

As far as a further Sith resurrgence, that could tie into the specifics of KOTOR:TSL's plot, such as the new Dark Lords.

[GhostofAnakin]

LS Ending:

Since Dantooine, and with it, a lot of the current and future Jedi is destroyed, that'll mean the Jedi's numbers are declined. On the other hand, the Sith didn't face the same destruction. Sure, you defeated the Sith students on Korriban, but Korriban itself wasn't destroyed, thus their "academy" is still operational. With the weakening of the Jedi Order, the Sith start to make another push, since the Jedi and Republic used up their energy battling the Star Forge (there was no indication that a LOT of Sith were on the Star Forge), the Sith remain relatively strong.

 

Then, Revan heads off to the Unknown regions (this part, I don't know how I'd explain), and with one of the saviours of the Republic off in the UR, the Sith have an easier time defeating the remaining Jedi. Enter the new PC.

 

DS Ending:

As is the way of the Sith, a new challenger changes Revan. They fight it out, and perhaps Revan barely escapes with his life (thus why he's out in the Unknowns), but takes the Star Forge with him by blowing it up or some kind of explanation like that, leaving the new Sith Lord and his entourage without the use of the Star Forge. Since Revan whiped out the Republic fleet (or a large part of it) and killed many of the Jedi, this leaves the Republic and Jedi weakened and thus easier to finish off. Enter the new PC.

[Ivan the Terrible]

Easy, just have two different solutions. If you chose the LS ending, come up with a solution telling why the Sith came back all of a sudden.

 

If you chose the DS ending come up with a solution telling how Revan being the Dark Lord of the Sith all of a sudden vanishing etc....

 

It doesn't require a rocket scientist, but it does require a good imagination with story telling. And if told well, it would work, if it isn't, then I guess we are all SOL ha?

Yes, I understand all that. I'm asking for some creative thinking; not the method by which the problem can be solved, which is clear, but rather what YOU would add to the story to make the two endings meet.

[nightcleaver]

I get the impression the assault on the star forge wasn't to eliminate the Sith, but destroy the source of endless ships. Any number of things could happen otherwise; I'm thinking a few ships, maybe a couple of the Interdictor ships, escaped with their crew to separate reaches of the galaxy. Not having a unified leadership platform anymore which the Starforge represented, and being scattered across the galaxy, they each start building their own plans. The Republic fleet, needless to say, would be pretty much destroyed (realistically) and the scattered Sith factions that would be attacking them from all sides would spread them thin. Thus, they bring all their remaining ships to the core of the galaxy, build up a fleet(maybe) and wait, leaving the outer rim in a lurch.

 

The Jedi, meanwhile, continue to fight the threat. Their numbers diminish, and what's left of them fades out; using subterfuge to fight the Sith with guerilla tactics and infiltration, possibly, but no one really knows. Revan is haunted and goes to discover his past. Maybe he just disappears without explanation. Maybe he joins the Sith to destroy them from the inside or something. I would rather(and thus won't write this possibility) that he didn't fall to the darkside, and the same goes for bastila.

 

 

Sith side: loyalists of Malak and even the former Revan wouldn't like the new leadership. A lot of Sith came from the academy on Korriban as well, I can imagine, and many of those wouldn't like two former goody-two-shoes Jedi running the show. Seeing that the star forge was the central focus of power, someone sabotage's it and in-fighting ensues. (or maybe the infighting causes the sabotage) Revan, wanting to wait for a time when the Sith were ready and seeing how foolish it would be to stick around and get killed in the long run, escapes outside of radar to the edges of the galaxy, waiting for his chance to return. Possibly, he's also waiting for the ranks to become more powerful through this infighting.

[EnderAndrew]

Sith (at least in KOTOR) seem to have the mentality of strength in leadership. The leader themselves wasn't as important as the strength of the leader.

 

Malak turned on Revan, but you didn't see the Sith divided by loyalties.

[Tyrell]

Here is my speculation on to how KOTOR 2 came to be using the DS ending of KOTOR. KOTOR 2 Story Speculation Part 1

 

I haven't gotten around to part 2 but Its coming....

[nightcleaver]

A few differences that made me think of this:

 

Revan died once. Philosophically, some might decide this made him unfit to lead at all. In the game, you repeatedly ran into sith and had the option to demand they bow down to you... but they would say, "Malak is our master now, he killed you and you lost that privelege. You are a Jedi and no longer fit..." blah blah blah.

 

The Sith have leadership, and believe in strong leadership. If a bunch of people think he isn't fit, organize factions separately (conversing too openly might be a bad thing, and would take away a possible advantage of surprise) and all attack him at once (either in force or personally... they had seen the force approach used by Malak once, so why not now?) separate factions would form.

So no, they aren't "loyal" in the sense I implied, but those reasons I gave ARE reasons they might decide him unfit (read: not strong) to lead, and it's their right by the sith code to challenge him.

 

While based and heavily motivated on the Darkside of many ages past, the Sith are, after all, a philosophy, and not just untrained darksider's. This seems like a prime time to me for such a philosophy to be under fire from all sides by differing opinions.

 

ADD: Looks good Tyrell. You don't explain everything, though - do you think the Sith were elsewhere, did they escape, a little bit of both? Things like that.

[mastaGAW]

I see it as the Sith threat that turned Malak and Revan darkside has an influence. There were other Sith Lords but omly Malak and Revan attacked the Republic. They all had some plan that those two were apart of but now since KOTOR the other Sith Lords in hiding in other parts of the galaxy are like hey f**cked up so they came out to the forefront of the Sith war effort to do whatever.

[EnderAndrew]

I hadn't really thought about that, but when Malak and Revan were around the Star Forge, they both turned evil.

 

What if every Jedi and Sith that survived that battle was influenced by the Star Forge and became really evil?

[nightcleaver]

To me, it seems their whole search for the Star Forge and the subsequent USING of the Star Forge was what caused their fall. There were good Rakatans, the Elder's... and they had been in that system for ages, since they were born, and were of an evil-inclined race.

In the sequel, there will be dark force nodes every now and then. Using them, letting their power envelop you will give you a pretty significant DS hit. However, just being in their presence won't.

I suspect some would let the Starforge power envelop them, being at a significant disadvantage to the darksiders (according to Bastila anyway) and a lot of the Jedi would be inexperienced, I'm sure, and maybe not know what they were doing when they did it, and were tainted. The inexperience would also add to their weakness in combat against the hordes of Sith, and thus the temptation.

It doesn't seem to fit, however much I'd like it as an original story, to have the Star Forge make everyone in it's presence evil, though.

Still, I like the idea. I can see it influencing others in the long run (they feel and taste the darkside must more tangibly after that, having really experienced it whether or not they gave in... some would be wiser, some wouldn't), and as they fight the Sith in darkening times, with Jedi losing and falling to the DS, running, or dying, they would subsequently fall without a proper Jedi Council to contact and prevent their own fall.

 

Hey, what about my theory before? do you think my explanation is plausible? You can bitch me out about it if you feel like it, I just want feedback.

 

And to add to my argument of before, that I want you to respond to...

 

Sith lords could still take advantage of the changing situation. The new Revan hadn't proven himself yet, and had certainly disproven himself in some people's eyes by falling to Malak the first time. They believe in the strength of the leader, but they aren't like, "Oh, just give the poor schmuks a chance." The Rakatans destroyed themselves over the DS, and from what the Elder's said, the Star Forge was a big part of this in-fighting. Logically, it would be cause enough for people to grab at power.

[ampulator00]

IF you ask me, Revan beat Malak, who was the currently accept Sith Lord, who was the former apprentice of Revan. Even if Malak did beat Revan, he could not kill him, and Revan comes back and kills him instead. Now, we can argue whether the fact that revan was still alive AND did kill Malak may or may not mean that he never lost the titile of the Sith Lord, that's very much debatable.

 

However, if you are DS, I think it would obvious that other Siths will either:

 

a) accept (in face, anyway)

B. Rebel

c) Leave

 

Now, considering that, and 5 years, ANYTHING can happen.

 

Now the LS ending is harder to explain. Except that the attack on the star forge really costed the Republic, indeed other Sith outside the star forge did exists, and Revan could not continued his/her fault against the Sith somehow and for whatever reasons disappeared with Carth/Bastila.

 

AS you might now see, with 5 years, and creative thinking, anything can happen.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any. :D

[Fardragon]

Firstly, I'm not convinced the Elders where good. I didn't trust those goggle-eyed wiseguys an inch! What about the scientist who was experimenting on prisoners to regain force powers?

 

I am inclined to the view that Revan encontered a great evil on the rim that started him on the dark path and caused him to seek out the SF. It could be a Sith lord, or a Rakatan artifact, or even a surviving Rakatan dark force wielder, or whatever was responsible for the plague. Over the months following the battle of the SF Revan's memories started to return and he realised he had to return to the rim to deal with this threat to the Sith empire/Repubic.

 

Dark side Revan isn't going to leave the SF hanging around for other would be Sith Lords to use, so he would either have to take it with him or put it out of commision.

 

Light Side, devoid of Revan's leadership the jedi and republic flounder.

 

Afterwards deadly Sith assassins start to hunt down the remaining Jedi. Those who are not killed go into hiding.

[alanschu]

Such a concentration of forces used in the attack against the Star Forge may have left most of the galaxy relatively undefended for another aspiring Sith Lord.

 

That would probably be the LS way anyways.

[Dead Skin Mask]

How would You tie together the KOTOR endings?

 

 

In a frayed knot?

 

 

Cheers!

[Grandpa]

At first read of the question I thought, "A good old double-becket bend should tie the two ends together," but then I decided not to be a smart@ss.

 

I would say that the tie-in will be done one of two ways, whether I think they are creative or not, I'm choosing to focus on what Obsidian will probably do vice what I think they should do.

 

1. In establishing your character, thus your identity in the initial "Endar Spire" type opening sequence, the game will read your choices and plant a standard history. This would be similar to TOEE, where you get a different opening depending on the base party alignment. This would require two sets of scripts, thus a lot of space. Since KoTOR already had lt/dk options in the dialogue choices, Obsidian can choose to filter the script to allow for only one or the other, with maybe some grey area dialogue mixed in. This would solve the space-on-disc issue for having two complete sets of dialogue files and corresponding voice files.

 

2. In KoTOR II, you receive only vague references to Revan. Only that he was defeated after the battle at the Star Forge. Dark Jedi, whether Revan turned good or evil in the first game, would still be hunting for him, for different reasons sure, but hunting none the less. The result was a cataclysmic civil war with more forces leaving the Republic for the greener pastures of the Sith. The Sith movement gains more momentum, next thing you know, you're the "last known Jedi." Revan would be as vague as Exar Kun (et-al) was vague in the first game. "Oh yeah...that Exar whats-his-name guy...a powerful Sith lord kind-of dude." would be in KoTOR II: "Revan? Oh year.. the last guy to run around fighting with the Republic? Yeah. Not sure what happened to him exactly. Heard the Dark Jedi got him..."

 

I would be afraid that the more you nailed down the specifics in the beginning, the more linear the game would turn out to be. None of us know exactly which way Obsidian is taking this part of the story into the next game, but I would bet that they are going to keep it fairly neutral, as in #2 above.

[Grandpa]

Oh...follow-up to scenario 2.

 

Keep in mind that Revan was already thought to be dead to all but a few select characters. So having him "disappear" in KoTOR II would not be implausible at all...most people already thought he was dead long before the battle at the Star Forge.

[kumquatq3]

Oh...follow-up to scenario 2.

 

Keep in mind that Revan was already thought to be dead to all but a few select characters. So having him "disappear" in KoTOR II would not be implausible at all...most people already thought he was dead long before the battle at the Star Forge.

in the LS and DS endings he appears in front of a large number of people.

[ampulator00]

Actually, Exar Kun is not a vague character. He already has a storyline in books.

[Indalecio]

Light Side is taken care of.

 

Dark Side though. I think Malak had a dead-man switch on him. That dead-man switch triggers the self-destruction of the Star Forge. Revan either escapes, or dies in the ensuing explosion. Either way, he now has limited resources. He needs to build up his resources, so he leaves the field. Conversely, allowing the Star Forge to be destroyed may have been like a weakness to some. Either Revan is ousted, or the Sith factionalizes.

 

Thoughts?

[Grandpa]

Oh...follow-up to scenario 2.

 

Keep in mind that Revan was already thought to be dead to all but a few select characters.  So having him "disappear" in KoTOR II would not be implausible at all...most people already thought he was dead long before the battle at the Star Forge.

in the LS and DS endings he appears in front of a large number of people.

The entire galaxy...billions of creatures?

[Grandpa]

Actually, Exar Kun is not a vague character. He already has a storyline in books.

The game gave no reference to the books or the comic series. As a self contained SW Universe type of thing, broader reference could've been made, had it been important to the story line of the game itself.

 

Hence, if Revan turns out to be simply a background character, they would not to have wrapped so much around him/er to pull off the new story.

[nightcleaver]

Firstly, I'm not convinced the Elders where good. I didn't trust those goggle-eyed wiseguys an inch! What about the scientist who was experimenting on prisoners to regain force powers?

 

I am inclined to the view that Revan encontered a great evil on the rim that started him on the dark path and caused him to seek out the SF. It could be a Sith lord, or a Rakatan artifact, or even a surviving Rakatan dark force wielder, or whatever was responsible for the plague. Over the months following the battle of the SF Revan's memories started to return and he realised he had to return to the rim to deal with this threat to the Sith empire/Repubic.

 

Dark side Revan isn't going to leave the SF hanging around for other would be Sith Lords to use, so he would either have to take it with him or put it out of commision.

 

Light Side, devoid of Revan's leadership the jedi and republic flounder.

 

Afterwards deadly Sith assassins start to hunt down the remaining Jedi. Those who are not killed go into hiding.

It doesn't matter, frankly. It doesn't fit the Star Wars universe I know and would like to believe in to have Sith artifacts tainting people just by being around them. It totally makes the LS/DS distinction trivial and pointless. It seems to me that certain people are more prone to like the Darkside ways, and there's a reason for that - you aren't changed fundamentally by seeing the dark side, but if it tempts you (some it tempts more than others) it does, technically, influence you just by being around it. And if you aren't prepared for dealing with these temptations, don't know what to tell yourself, those temptations are going to be a lot stronger - as it was with Bastila. I don't like the dark side being like demonic possession, it totally destroys the idea of "redemption" and the personal, more realistic and everyday side of temptation to do wrong, no matter how justified it seems. In real life it DOES seem a little like possession, and the Darkside is described in such a way too... but an object possessing and making you bad stuff, regardless of whether you cared about that object or not, is absurd. I think there's a reason that Jedi are at greater risk of falling to the Darkside - it's using the FORCE to do bad things that really ruins people, not just an occasional naughty action.

 

I didn't meet the scientist guy, because every time I play and I get to the rakatan world I'm like, "Oh my god, just get me through this... the boredom is excruciating". Maybe they weren't good in every way, but at least the Elder's you speak to are inclined to try and get you to destroy the star forge, meaning they are un-influenced by it and capable of coherent thought. They are, after all, a race of ill-disposition. It makes sense that they'd still be a little evil, un-influenced by the Star Forge.

 

But I like the idea that he leaves to fight a greater threat. It's less tragic and dramatic, so I'd go with a spin-off that is.

 

I don't like your light side explanation (psst... it's too short!) Why would revan lead suddenly? The galactic senate wouldn't unilaterally hand it over to him, and I'm sure the Jedi wouldn't either. He did a lot of bad stuff, after all, even if he's made up for it and cleaned up his own mess.

[Iolo]

Actually, Exar Kun is not a vague character. He already has a storyline in books.

The game gave no reference to the books or the comic series. As a self contained SW Universe type of thing, broader reference could've been made, had it been important to the story line of the game itself.

 

Hence, if Revan turns out to be simply a background character, they would not to have wrapped so much around him/er to pull off the new story.

 

 

I thought for sure Exar Kun (40 years previous to KOTRO1?) was referred to. I think Jolee Bindo may mention it and possibly Canderous Ordo. Not a big factor in the game though and it was provided only for background/flavor.