How dark can TSL be?

[Tyrell]

Okay let me play nitpick for a second.

 

First off I'm not trying to bash the game or the developers in any way or fashion. I'm just bringing up something that has been bothering me for a while.

 

In almost anything TSL related it is always said that TSL is supposed to be darker then the first game. In almost every preview/interview that is said.

 

Well, how dark can TSL really be? Cause if you think about it, you CAN play the game as a LS Jedi and end the game like that by you saving the galaxy and such.

 

It isn't like the movies. Take EP5/EP3 as an example where "all the bad guys win". In EP3 almost all the Jedi is killed, Anakin falls to the Darkside, Padme dies, the Republic dies and the Empire is born etc....

 

EP5 Luke loses to Vader and reveals shocking information, Han is captured and sent to Jabba, the Rebels is ran off of their Hoth base in a lost battle etc....

 

Those movies are just linear one-way stories. TSL isn't a linear one-way story. It can either be a bad story like EP5/EP3 if you go along with the DS path, or it can be glorious and great like EP6 if you go with the LS path.

 

Again, think about it more....how much darker can TSL be then KOTOR? Cause if you think about it, if you played KOTOR on the DS....it was a pretty dark game to. Taris is destroyed, Dantooine is destroyed, the Sith grows stronger and so on.

 

I mean Chris Avellone said in a recent interview that in TSL it is a dark game cause bad things happens to good people. Well the same could be applied to KOTOR cause bad things happened to good people, especially if you played through the DS. Jolee dies, Reven comes back as the Sith Lord, Bastilla falls to the DS, and so on.

 

Thats why I bring up the question about how dark can TSL be? Is the developers over-exaggerating with this?

 

In EP3 and EP5 those were dark movies cause there was NO room for hope what so ever. In TSL there WILL be room for hope cause you can end the game as a LS person, thus making the game seem like a glorious/heroic game rather then just a dark gloomy/all hope is lost type of game like EP3/EP5.

 

So the way I see it, TSL is a dark game....depending on how you play it. And if that is true, then that means it isn't much different from KOTOR cause in KOTOR it is a dark game....depending on how you play it.

[Victus]

Maybe bad things still happen even if you go LS. In ESB, Luke, the protagonist, was a LS person but crap still happened to him and his friends.

[GhostofAnakin]

Perhaps even playing as a LS character, the ending is a "loss" rather than a victory.

 

Taking ESB for example, At the end of the movie, Luke and the heroes were alive and well, standing on the medical frigate looking out the viewport as the Millennium Falcon flies away. Thus, they didn't die, but they didn't win.

 

Maybe that's what happens in TSL. Maybe you face the "end boss", and if you "win", all that happens is you're rescued and make your way to the Ebon Hawk and escape to fight another day, but the Sith Lords actually win the war.

[sickboycp]

Perhaps even playing as a LS character, the ending is a "loss" rather than a victory.

 

Taking ESB for example, At the end of the movie, Luke and the heroes were alive and well, standing on the medical frigate looking out the viewport as the Millennium Falcon flies away. Thus, they didn't die, but they didn't win.

 

Maybe that's what happens in TSL. Maybe you face the "end boss", and if you "win", all that happens is you're rescued and make your way to the Ebon Hawk and escape to fight another day, but the Sith Lords actually win the war.

Or take Planescape: Torment, Chris Avellone's most famous game.

 

 

(PS:T Spoiler below)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That ended with The Nameless One regaining his mortality, but doomed to spend eternity on the Lower Planes fighting as a nameless soldier in The Blood Wars.

 

 

Chris Avellone has gone on record several times in interviews for TSL saying that he's a big fan of bittersweet endings.

 

I wouldn't be surprised (in fact I expect it) if we saw something similar here.

[Fardragon]

I could imagine a light side ending in which the PC dies in the end.

 

I also think something very bad might have happened to Revan.

 

A serious betrayal could also give the story a very dark twist.

[Indalecio]

I just hope that its bittersweet even for DS. Imagine, if the Star Forge had self-destructed once Malak had died. Or seeing the senseless struggle between you and Malak, had gone over back to the Lightside?

 

Admittedly, that last one wasn't very believable, but something along those lines. You get one thing but lose something else that important to you.

[Naso]

Maybe it's not so much the outcome but the feel of the thing, because in KotOR it never felt hopeless and in most of the places you went there were lots of shiny happy people and the random sith ambush. Taris was occupied but you didn't see much until they blew it up aside from some sith standing in the street. They could make the whole occupied planet thing much darker without necessarily including major plot events.

[Fardragon]

Maybe it's not so much the outcome but the feel of the thing, because in KotOR it never felt hopeless and in most of the places you went there were lots of shiny happy people and the random sith ambush. Taris was occupied but you didn't see much until they blew it up aside from some sith standing in the street. They could make the whole occupied planet thing much darker without necessarily including major plot events.

Yup, they could have had a few more aliens being rounded up and sent to death camps.

[Opus131]

Maybe the game will be darker in it's tone, atmopshere, it's inherent level of maturity and perhaps an introspective element in net contrast with the Disney-like drivel offered by the original game.

 

Perhaps the characterization of good and evil will be deeper, the characters could be more mature and realistic, the entire world of KOTOR could be painted in a gritty, sideral atmosphere rather then the bright and neat happy happy joy joy look of the original game.

 

There's a million of things they could do to make this game a little darker, i don't understand how you managed to conclude this game will be the same as KOTOR just because you can follow a light side path in both games.

 

I mean, Aliens had an happy ending for crying out loud, are you going to tell me that movie wasn't so different from E.T. after all ?!?

[nightcleaver]

Yes. They made it clear would not be, "all dark", and that triumphs would happen. The key here is the word, "darker" instead of saying, "dark".

 

Also, they say they're working on making the the LS/DS contrast greater in the sequel, making things the character can do more advanced than stealing candy from babies. This would DEFINITELY make the game a bit darker darkside than KotOR I's darkside was. Seriously, I found most of the DS choices to be more amusing than serious.

Also, Malak wasn't a very serious villain. He was stupid, frankly; uncunning and blunt. There was only one villain, and overall the Republic was still pretty much organized, and there was a Jedi Order still. In the second one, the Jedi Order is forced into hiding (what's left of it that's not destroyed or assassinated) which is definitely darker than the first game. There are multiple villains, we can surmise, being an age of "Sith Lords" more or less. The game is, overall, much lonelier with all this going on than the first.

In the first, also, the Republic fleet withstood incredible odds for an amazingly long time while the Sith fleet pounded on them with Battle meditation, then (somehow) having the werewithal and firepower to completely turn the tides and obliterate the Sith Fleet (or what was left to resist, and wasn't fleeing.... which I theorize is what happens for the second game) with or without Bastila's meditation. If you ask me, killing her should've just about killed their chance of doing anything more than destabilizing the Star Forge... meanwhile they'd likely be surrounded and destroyed, much as the darkside ending. To make things darker in the sequel, nothing like THAT (to specify - the LS winning no matter what, even if it IS dependent on your character still that's pretty light-hearted) would happen.

 

The meeting with Saul could've been made darker - by extension, anything similar in the sequel could be darker. The questions and especially the ANSWER's were pretty lame and humorous (though humor is welcomed in the sequel, none of the answer's seemed real) and somewhat formulaic. Torturing for hours was pretty pointless, as it stood, I could'nt explain why - but if it were questioning like that for hours with the torture it would be more serious and less... comic-bookish 'maniacal'.

[Judge Hades]

One way to make the game darker is to turn the brightness and contrast way down on your monitor.

[Shdy314]

Maybe the game will be darker in it's tone, atmopshere, it's inherent level of maturity and perhaps an introspective element in net contrast with the Disney-like drivel offered by the original game.

 

Perhaps the characterization of good and evil will be deeper, the characters could be more mature and realistic, the entire world of KOTOR could be painted in a gritty, sideral atmosphere rather then the bright and neat happy happy joy joy look of the original game.

 

There's a million of things they could do to make this game a little darker, i don't understand how you managed to conclude this game will be the same as KOTOR just because you can follow a light side path in both games.

 

I mean, Aliens had an happy ending for crying out loud, are you going to tell me that movie wasn't so different from E.T. after all ?!?

(Starts to speak) Oh yeah everything Opus said. Once again Tyrell manages to come up with a totally ridiculous post. Its kind of funny this is Tyrell "playing nitpicker." You can tell he doesnt do it often.

[Meshugger]

Maybe the game will be darker in it's tone, atmopshere, it's inherent level of maturity and perhaps an introspective element in net contrast with the Disney-like drivel offered by the original game.

 

Perhaps the characterization of good and evil will be deeper, the characters could be more mature and realistic, the entire world of KOTOR could be painted in a gritty, sideral atmosphere rather then the bright and neat happy happy joy joy look of the original game.

 

There's a million of things they could do to make this game a little darker, i don't understand how you managed to conclude this game will be the same as KOTOR just because you can follow a light side path in both games.

 

I mean, Aliens had an happy ending for crying out loud, are you going to tell me that movie wasn't so different from E.T. after all ?!?

That sums it all up pretty good. I expect the characters to have a more 'serious' tone to them since the general atmosphere in the Old Republic is pretty grim at this point of time in the Star Wars universe. I'm hoping for a very bittersweet ending for LS, and for DS it should be more of a sad feeling over it and not the "i'm the badass of badasses" that we experienced in KotOR.

[Raven]

man, this game is going to be dark. i swear, youll think that obsidian sold you a disk that contained a picture made in paint that was dumped black. but youll get to hear lightsaber effects

 

jk

[Tyrell]

Maybe the game will be darker in it's tone, atmopshere, it's inherent level of maturity and perhaps an introspective element in net contrast with the Disney-like drivel offered by the original game.

 

Perhaps the characterization of good and evil will be deeper, the characters could be more mature and realistic, the entire world of KOTOR could be painted in a gritty, sideral atmosphere rather then the bright and neat happy happy joy joy look of the original game.

 

There's a million of things they could do to make this game a little darker, i don't understand how you managed to conclude this game will be the same as KOTOR just because you can follow a light side path in both games.

 

I mean, Aliens had an happy ending for crying out loud, are you going to tell me that movie wasn't so different from E.T. after all ?!?

(Starts to speak) Oh yeah everything Opus said. Once again Tyrell manages to come up with a totally ridiculous post. Its kind of funny this is Tyrell "playing nitpicker." You can tell he doesnt do it often.

Do you have something against me man? Yes I remember when I FIRST came here I was an ass. I was literally bashing the game and its developers. I made the comment on how Halo 2 the sequel to Halo was such a big project whereas KOTOR 2 the sequel to KOTOR really isn't. That was when I knew less about the game.

 

Now that I took more research about it and learned new things, I see KOTOR 2 for what it really is, a great game. I've done good things for the KOTOR 2 community by providing not one but TWO interviews that everyone seems to like.

 

Again, I don't know that it is with you. Is it your maturity level? You are the ONLY one who ALWAYS has something negative to say about something, nobody here on the forums does the things you do.

 

You are always quick to jump on someone's back and make comments about another. I remember how I said that "I'm not here to make friends, just talk KOTOR 2" when I first came here. Well I was fooled cause now many people is beginning to get along and like me and I'm beginning to like others here. I spend more time here then I do at my other two sites. But yet YOU are the only one who has something negative to say everytime I post.

 

You really need to get your act together man and just chill out. This is an INTERNET forum. We are here cause we all have atleast one thing in common, a high respect and anticipation for KOTOR 2. ]

 

You make the statement of me making yet another ridiculous post. Well I see no one else here complaining, my last post nobody complains. The last time someone complained about my post was when I made comments of KOTOR 2 not being a worthy sequel, and that was when I FIRST came here with like 5 post under my belt. I've changed and matured with knowledge about KOTOR 2. I moved on and the views others had about me moved on to. Oh but not you, maybe you are having a hard time in your personal life and you just feel as if you want to get some dirt off of your sleeve and take it out on someone else over the internet. I have done NOTHING against you personally but yet you still have this thing against me for some reason.

 

I'm just going to end it like this. You can continue to have this thing against me. To tell you the truth, I just view it as an act of self immaturity and I'm too mature to bring myself down to that level. I have better things to do then to just talk down about someone on an internet forum 24/7. You can continue to be you and do what you do. I'm going to move and and just ignore it all. You can make your little witty comments, you can say whatever you want to say, I mean if it makes you happy or whatnot by all means do so, but don't expect me or anyone else here at the forum to care, you are going to be alone with this.

 

Now to get back on topic

----------------------------

 

I guess you guys are right. I was sort of thinking the same thing. Maybe if you end on the LS, maybe it is still dark in some ways. I always thought it could be like that but felt like I was alone with it and thought that everyone else thought differently. Now that almost all of you said the same thing about TSL ending on LS and still being negative in some ways, now I feel differently.

 

Thanks for your output though!

[Shdy314]

Its not so much that I have a thing against you it is just that I am fully aware that the smallest comment can set you off and I have great fun playing you like a fiddle. I have no desire to make friends with anyone here. Like you said. This is an internet forum. I come here to have fun and sometimes find a little bit about KOTOR 2 I didnt know. Messing with you is fun. The greatest test of maturity is controlling yourself. So if you really want to prove your maturity stop posting huge replies to smartass comments by myself if they are so immature/unimportant as you say. Stop getting your knickers in a bunch over every little joke and just chill out. Once you do that. I'll stop having this "thing" against you. Does this mean Ill never make a snide comment? Nope. But if you pay attention I make snide comments about things all the time. Its kind of my thing. Like Hades hating everything.

 

Oh it is important to note I just had to make some sort of snide comment since your post really was ridiculous. How do you go to college and not understand simple concepts like what "dark" means in a storyline. Which is to say tone/atmosphere/etc. I think the fact every single reply was basically the same in explaining to you why TSL can be darker despite everything you say is a good indication your post was a silly one. Just accept that you asked a silly question. Even I have done that. And when someone points it out I dont go crazy.

[Tyrell]

Its not so much that I have a thing against you it is just that I am fully aware that the smallest comment can set you off and I have great fun playing you like a fiddle. I have no desire to make friends with anyone here. Like you said. This is an internet forum. I come here to have fun and sometimes find a little bit about KOTOR 2 I didnt know. Messing with you is fun. The greatest test of maturity is controlling yourself. So if you really want to prove your maturity stop posting huge replies to smartass comments by myself if they are so immature/unimportant as you say. Stop getting your knickers in a bunch over every little joke and just chill out. Once you do that. I'll stop having this "thing" against you. Does this mean Ill never make a snide comment? Nope. But if you pay attention I make snide comments about things all the time. Its kind of my thing. Like Hades hating everything.

The smallest thing doesn't set me off. I've ignored you for a long while now.

 

But like I said, I reall don't care and nobody else here cares either. Go ahead and make your little side comments cause like I said, if that makes you happy, if that makes you feel as if you full-filled your self as a contributor to the Obsidian forums then all out do so. This is the only the 2nd time I have actually taken time out of my day to respond to one of your stupid comments. The first time being when I replied and gave that little worthless life story of myself and how I work for these two websites and that I'm heading into my 2nd year of College at Kansas University majoring in Computer Science....yeah yeah you probably remember. Anyways that was only the other time I replied back to your comments. All the other times I ignored and just pass it by.

 

Again though, and be yourself and do what you do cause you even admitted. What you do is fun. I think its immature but you say its fun so have your little fun. But I know you do it to try to tick me off and for me to come back with a comment. More like the old lets see how far we can push him before he totally goes off the edge type game. You just don't understand how dumb you are making yourself sound though.

 

I'm going to leave you alone now and let you be. I'm going to continue to be here til KOTOR 2 comes out and even some months afterwards. You can continue to make your comments about me, I even give you the red-light to do so. While you do that and have fun. I'm just going to push it aside and go one about my business. Don't expect for me to comment again on your replies cause thats what you want me to do.

 

I know you are going to come back and make another reply but don't expect me to comment on it or on any other future replies. That all starts.....now.

 

Aussehen, wie wir beide auf verschiedenen Tagesordnungen sind. Ein mit einer Ursache, und Ein ohne eine Ursache. ...

[Ixion]

In KotOR Taris and Dantooine are both destroyed no matter what path you take. So I guess making the game "darker" would be making more destruction like that, no matter what path you take.

[alanschu]

Darker could also mean more difficult choices to make.

 

Do you save a planet, or a friend/party-member? or something like that. I wouldn't mind it.....dilemmas can be neat and tend to add emotion to a game.

[Child of Flame]

Its not so much that I have a thing against you it is just that I am fully aware that the smallest comment can set you off and I have great fun playing you like a fiddle. I have no desire to make friends with anyone here. Like you said. This is an internet forum. I come here to have fun and sometimes find a little bit about KOTOR 2 I didnt know. Messing with you is fun. The greatest test of maturity is controlling yourself. So if you really want to prove your maturity stop posting huge replies to smartass comments by myself if they are so immature/unimportant as you say. Stop getting your knickers in a bunch over every little joke and just chill out. Once you do that. I'll stop having this "thing" against you. Does this mean Ill never make a snide comment? Nope. But if you pay attention I make snide comments about things all the time. Its kind of my thing. Like Hades hating everything.

The smallest thing doesn't set me off. I've ignored you for a long while now.

 

But like I said, I reall don't care and nobody else here cares either. Go ahead and make your little side comments cause like I said, if that makes you happy, if that makes you feel as if you full-filled your self as a contributor to the Obsidian forums then all out do so. This is the only the 2nd time I have actually taken time out of my day to respond to one of your stupid comments. The first time being when I replied and gave that little worthless life story of myself and how I work for these two websites and that I'm heading into my 2nd year of College at Kansas University majoring in Computer Science....yeah yeah you probably remember. Anyways that was only the other time I replied back to your comments. All the other times I ignored and just pass it by.

 

Again though, and be yourself and do what you do cause you even admitted. What you do is fun. I think its immature but you say its fun so have your little fun. But I know you do it to try to tick me off and for me to come back with a comment. More like the old lets see how far we can push him before he totally goes off the edge type game. You just don't understand how dumb you are making yourself sound though.

 

I'm going to leave you alone now and let you be. I'm going to continue to be here til KOTOR 2 comes out and even some months afterwards. You can continue to make your comments about me, I even give you the red-light to do so. While you do that and have fun. I'm just going to push it aside and go one about my business. Don't expect for me to comment again on your replies cause thats what you want me to do.

 

I know you are going to come back and make another reply but don't expect me to comment on it or on any other future replies. That all starts.....now.

 

Aussehen, wie wir beide auf verschiedenen Tagesordnungen sind. Ein mit einer Ursache, und Ein ohne eine Ursache. ...

OooooOOOOooo, Tyrell went all holier then thou again, OooooOOoooO! Guess we're supposed to all watch our steps around him now huh? OoooOOooOO! He's special because he works for WEBSITES! OooooOOOooO!

 

Give me a break man, I learned not to take an air or self importance when talking to others like you continue to do years ago, you said you're in COLLEGE?!! Sheesh.

 

Grow up man. <_<

[Akari]

In KotOR Taris and Dantooine are both destroyed no matter what path you take. So I guess making the game "darker" would be making more destruction like that, no matter what path you take.

A darker story doesn't necessarily mean more mass destruction. Sometimes it's the more personal tragedies that make the mood more somber or 'dark'.

 

In saying that, keep in mind that I actually don't know a whole lot of the story of the game. Most of it is in the designers' heads more than in docs, and I don't have a lot of time to read story docs to begin with. Too busy coding.

 

But I know how Avellone writes, and I do know a few details or ideas that are going to happen.

 

-Akari

[Shdy314]

Its not so much that I have a thing against you it is just that I am fully aware that the smallest comment can set you off and I have great fun playing you like a fiddle. I have no desire to make friends with anyone here. Like you said. This is an internet forum. I come here to have fun and sometimes find a little bit about KOTOR 2 I didnt know. Messing with you is fun. The greatest test of maturity is controlling yourself. So if you really want to prove your maturity stop posting huge replies to smartass comments by myself if they are so immature/unimportant as you say. Stop getting your knickers in a bunch over every little joke and just chill out. Once you do that. I'll stop having this "thing" against you. Does this mean Ill never make a snide comment? Nope. But if you pay attention I make snide comments about things all the time. Its kind of my thing. Like Hades hating everything.

The smallest thing doesn't set me off. I've ignored you for a long while now.

 

But like I said, I reall don't care and nobody else here cares either. Go ahead and make your little side comments cause like I said, if that makes you happy, if that makes you feel as if you full-filled your self as a contributor to the Obsidian forums then all out do so. This is the only the 2nd time I have actually taken time out of my day to respond to one of your stupid comments. The first time being when I replied and gave that little worthless life story of myself and how I work for these two websites and that I'm heading into my 2nd year of College at Kansas University majoring in Computer Science....yeah yeah you probably remember. Anyways that was only the other time I replied back to your comments. All the other times I ignored and just pass it by.

 

Again though, and be yourself and do what you do cause you even admitted. What you do is fun. I think its immature but you say its fun so have your little fun. But I know you do it to try to tick me off and for me to come back with a comment. More like the old lets see how far we can push him before he totally goes off the edge type game. You just don't understand how dumb you are making yourself sound though.

 

I'm going to leave you alone now and let you be. I'm going to continue to be here til KOTOR 2 comes out and even some months afterwards. You can continue to make your comments about me, I even give you the red-light to do so. While you do that and have fun. I'm just going to push it aside and go one about my business. Don't expect for me to comment again on your replies cause thats what you want me to do.

 

I know you are going to come back and make another reply but don't expect me to comment on it or on any other future replies. That all starts.....now.

 

Aussehen, wie wir beide auf verschiedenen Tagesordnungen sind. Ein mit einer Ursache, und Ein ohne eine Ursache. ...

OooooOOOOooo, Tyrell went all holier then thou again, OooooOOoooO! Guess we're supposed to all watch our steps around him now huh? OoooOOooOO! He's special because he works for WEBSITES! OooooOOOooO!

 

Give me a break man, I learned not to take an air or self importance when talking to others like you continue to do years ago, you said you're in COLLEGE?!! Sheesh.

 

Grow up man. <_<

All I have to say about yet another long winded post from Tyrell about how much he doesnt care blah blah blah and how little things dont set him off blah blah blah is that it's pretty funny that he thinks I cant get a reaction out of him. Also what does it mean to have a ?red-light?(check the sentence before his smiley face.) to talk about someone???? Anyone?

[nightcleaver]

Tyrell: Have you ever seen someone say something and thought, "that's stupid" or somesuch, or just been annoyed? By extension, people can recognize the other person's feelings and who they are as a person, not necessarily even thinking they are, overall, unintelligent, and still think this of a person. That's what shdy does, and that's what he's saying. He might be a little more blunt than you'd like, but that's all that's wrong with it - bluntness.

Let me translate a few things: When he says, "I find it funny he says I can't get a reaction out of him" he's talking about how you're continuing to insinuate that he's fighting with you - he isn't, even if he takes glee from blowing your (to him) over-serious attitude off completely. You think he's just trying to goad you, though, and thus you dig your hole deeper than it should be, and he and others make fun of it.

[Child of Flame]

Also what does it mean to have a ?red-light?(check the sentence before his smiley face.) to talk about someone???? Anyone?

It means he failed Driver's Ed?

[Meshugger]

Doing personal insults over the internet so much fun, no matter how upset you make the other person, you're still safe behind your computerdesk. There's no boundries on how much of a jerk you can be. Unlike in real life...

 

 

 

 

 

(Hint to the mods: i was sarcastic, i don't need another warning after the 'Carth Onasi church of love'-thread <_< )