The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

But he did campaign on the things I mentioned and he never lied that he wasnt going to implement them like border control and deportations of illegals. He stated many times he was going to do this and he still won the election 

Saying the democrats were lying and he didn't know what Prohect 2025 was still  important to his election. I literally saw people, when P25 was brought up say 'yeah it's awful, but he said he didn't know what it was so it won't happen'. But we may have differing considerations for what constitutes a campaign. I'd argue, as he denied connections to it, he did campaign that he wasn't going to follow Project 2025.

Regarding immigration, yes he said he was going to round up people with no legal immigration status who were criminals. He quoted an impossible number of them. They've mostly been arresting people at their status hearings with immigration courts who don't have a criminal record while also trampling the constitutional rights of US citizens and arguably the non-legal status immigrants.

So I'd argue still a lie.

[BruceVC]

19 minutes ago, Amentep said:

 

So I'd argue still a lie.

And thats a common sentiment that many Americans now feel

I was watching a CNN show where they were interviewing members of a specific Hispanic community who had mostly voted Trump and most of them  said they wont  vote for Trump again and felt disappointed

They didn't all say he had lied  but they did say he had failed to deliver or he was doing things outside of what he campaigned on 

Either way its less votes for the GOP in the midterms 

 

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

Saying the democrats were lying and he didn't know what Prohect 2025 was still  important to his election. I literally saw people, when P25 was brought up say 'yeah it's awful, but he said he didn't know what it was so it won't happen'. But we may have differing considerations for what constitutes a campaign. I'd argue, as he denied connections to it, he did campaign that he wasn't going to follow Project 2025.

Regarding immigration, yes he said he was going to round up people with no legal immigration status who were criminals. He quoted an impossible number of them. They've mostly been arresting people at their status hearings with immigration courts who don't have a criminal record while also trampling the constitutional rights of US citizens and arguably the non-legal status immigrants.

So I'd argue still a lie.

some trump lies is difficult to assess in a normal context in part 'cause we give trump a different standard. trump lies about how tariffs wouldn't raise prices for americans is maybe not a lie 'cause trump is so stoopid that he believes it? trump claiming he would bring down the cost o' groceries from day one would be deflationary and a sign o' a recession, which nobody would genuine want, so "what he meant was..." trump is ignorant to a unique degree, so we shrug off a few trump lies as just his improbable stoopid?

other trump campaign lies is excused by chronic whataboutism from his supporters. trump claimed he would end the weaponization o' the doj, but you know, "it was really unfair how biden used the doj to go after trump, so..." 

and is amazing how quick people forget doge failed promises, eh? trillions of dollars saved once all the waste fraud and abuse were ended. nowhere near trillions and trillions were always impossible, so that were a lie from day 1. even so, very little waste, fraud or abuse were discovered. tens of billions (once you remove the misleading claims of future saving from the accounting) may sound like lots, but in terms o' the US or even the foreign aid budget, such is minor. there were programs working efficient and sans fraud that republicans did not like, but sending plumpynut to sudan or providing condoms and vasectomies to deal with the aids crisis in various african nations, while distasteful to many (for reasons) were ended not 'cause o' waste, fraud or abuse. 

in a similar context, much like with his first campaign, trump campaigned on ending government corruption and draining the swap. tangential he were gonna get rid o' the socialists/communists taking advantage o' real americans. farmer bailouts and corporate golden shares is socilaist/communist. period. the government literal taking control o' the means of production. boggles the mind. and trump's promises about ending corruption were/are... laughable. do we serious need to list all the crazy-arsed corrupt dealing from this admin? ending fbi investigation o' foreign election interference as well as domestic securities fraud means trump and bruce can pretend that the corruption ain't happening? sorta like with covid, trump's solution to the US increasing covid infections were to "slow the testing down," as ludicrous as that sounds. nevertheless, such willful ignorance is now policy, 'cause if you end any regulation o' crypto and then stop the feds from investigating any white collar or foreign interference crimes, then the crimes is not happening and there is no corruption... right? 

a few o' the policy fails as lies which previous Presidents got punished for is not held against trump the same way. the war in ukraine did not end w/i a day. can double-check that one 'cause when pressed a couple times he made clear he were speaking literal 24 hours and even claimed he would end the war between the election and his inauguration. inflation has not come down as promised, but normally inflation is something the President has only indirect control over, and it takes at least six months for any changes he does to have an impact. 

trump claimed he were gonna get tough on the chinese. thanks to his "deals," the chinese now get access to the ai chips they wanted and we get a promise the chinese will make real future efforts to do something or other about fentanyl. ummm. oh, and the chinese will buy more soybeans, which were only a problem for american farmers 'cause o' trump tariffs. is serious through the looking glass how trump creates a crisis and then walks it back partial so we are now in a worse position than where we started, but somehow the trump supporters cheer his genius for ending the crisis. regardless, trump hasn't looked particular tough on the chinese when you look at the full context o' what has happened as 'posed to focusing on transitory moments.

...

trump campaign claims about bringing back free speech is looking positively orwellian at this point.

etc.

am not sure what world we live in where folks is able to convince themselves that trump were honest during his 2024 campaign. yeah, he said he would mass deport... although he claimed 20 million would be deported and that number far exceeds the number o' undocumented people in the US... heck even with the shenanigans where trump arbitrarily ended the temporary documented status of afghanistan, haitian and venezuelan refugees who were here legally, 20 mil is a made-up number.  again, 20 million is a bit more than the entire population of ny STATE.  so as @Amenteprecognizes, even the truth about mass deportations were a lie. trump has effective shut down the border as he promised, but he has done so via means only stephen miller coulda' fully predicted. trump lied about immigrant crime in US cities during his campaign. as such, claiming that mass deportations and closing the border would reduce big city crime were a lie too. so even when trump were honest about how terrible he would be, he managed to lie about  reasons and numbers.

oh, and violating the Constitution to achieve promises may not count. if a President were to promise to end homelessness in los angeles, and they achieved that goal by sending marines to la and ordering those troops to kill any homeless person on the streets after 8pm, am not thinking anybody would consider such a campaign promise kept. as a President it is kinda implied that you gotta do stuff legal even if you are personal immune from prosecution for official acts.  "he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed," is literal in the Constitution... article 2, sec iii. this Court has rolled over for trump, but even those jokers has also declared, more than once, that what trump is doing is unconstitutional... such as sending people to cecot without due process. 

yeah, trump said he would do terrible and horrible and many voters picked him BECAUSE he promised terrible and horrible. no denying that truth. nevertheless, in addition to project 2025, trump lied a whole lot during his 2024 campaign, and his lies were o' a scope and magnitude am having difficulty finding meaningful comparisons.

HA! Good Fun!

ps at the end o' the day, whether trump campaign promises were lies is kinda meaningless. if voters is satisfied with trump job performance, then the fact he lied becomes an academic question, as unfortunate as that may be.

link.

democrats lost the Presidency in 2024 'cause too many voters became single-issue voters, and the single issue they cared about were their displeasure with democrats. heck, democrats didn't like democrats and large numbers voted 3rd party or not at all to punish establishment democrats. whether it were gaza, the environment or social issues, democrats lost faith in the democrat party. converse, in spite o' the fact you got cold war warriors and pro-putin folks taking up space in the republican party, with very differing views on ukraine, they near all voted for trump. republicans were single-issue in 2024-- hatred of democrats. 

trump's approval is in the toilet, and if the situation gets bad enough, most voters in 2026 and 2028 will be single issue voters and the issue is gonna be their hatred o' trump. unfortunate for democrats, even if they eek out political wins, they nevertheless need deal with the serious and foundational problem that almost nobody likes democrats, not even democrats. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Gromnir

[rjshae]

Trump threatens to cut New York funding if ‘communist’ Mamdani elected

Everything is a transaction with DJT, including implicit vote buying.

[Gromnir]

another trump 2024 campaign lie which gets overlooked: he were gonna finally get the people who stole the 2020 election.

bolton, comey and james cases have nothing whatsoever to do with overturning the 2020 election. if trump believes it is true, that the greatest fraud in the last 100 years took place, then where are the prosecutions?

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Zoraptor]

11 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

So yes, you were absolutely making the rhetorical point that you felt Biden would've been worse, so why lie about it?

Eh, leaving aside Bruce being Bruce with his... unique way of posting he'd clearly have preferred someone other than Trump. Implying he'd prefer Trump 'drives engagement' though, same as claiming Trump doesn't habitually lie and didn't while campaigning.

Quote

The comment I replied to was "Can you imagine if Biden had become president with his condition". The alternative that we actually got is very relevant. And in a subsequent back and forth you expressed incredulity that someone else would prefer Biden over Trump.

That's the exact problem: we know how Trump turned out, but not how Biden would have. If Biden had won, then 'we' would very likely be having this conversation, in exact reverse.

ie, what happens when Biden releases his cancer diagnosis, two months into his term? We know he has it, becoming president would not make it disappear as much as it would be nice if it did. We couldn't even be sure he'd still be president, given its severity. 

I'm sure anyone can imagine what the response to that series of events would be. How could the doctors have missed it? Did they miss it or was it suppressed? Does that mean Biden lied ('lied') about other health issues? Was the whole thing just a con to get Harris in without relying on a direct vote? Is it electoral fraud ('electoral fraud')? Was Trump robbed? Did the whole democratic party systematically lie to the electorate? Is this the death knell for American Democracy? Can we recall the president? Did Harris know? We need a Special Prosecutor to find out! ... Looking forward to President Johnson!

That sequence of events would have been terrible, just in a different way from Trump winning, and some would be speculating whether Trump might actually have been better. It would have called into question the integrity of the election, while at least Trump's win was clear cut and non controversial, mechanically, though it just might have slightly called into question the good taste and judgement of the american people. 

13 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you aren't even trying anymore.

Mate, I wasn't even trying multiple posts back. It's just taken you that long- and multiple theses- to notice. Indeed, I was- barely- skimming your posts.

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

if your initial responses were noteworthy better, the posts where you irrelevant were discussing biden, talking about horse mouths and making stuff up about dementia and the MoCA, that schtick might be a smidge more compelling. 

well, am glad we final reached a seeming conclusion.

more significant is the sandwich guy case, 

jeanine pirro, the dc us attorney, resubmitted as a misdemeanor and is having a full jury trial to prosecute.

...

HA! Good Fun!