The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[Elerond]

9 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

yeah, just imagine what frank sinatra might say to stephen miller.

late 1800s and early 1900s US nativism has been forgotten by too many. let's hope it don't take another world war to once again snap us out o' our collective stoopid. 

HA! Good Fun!

Somewhat ironic to use second and third generation migrants as example how migrants are bad for America

[Malcador]

It's Miller, so as long as they're white, they're good.

Remember:

 

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Elerond said:

Somewhat ironic to use second and third generation migrants as example how migrants are bad for America

miller's family didn't exactly come over on the mayflower... arrived in 1903 after fleeing russian pogroms. am having mentioned how US refugee laws didn't come into being until post ww2. given his family background, you would think miller would have some kinda empathy for immigrants and refugees. 

counter to star trek visions o' the future, am suspecting prejudice and bigotry is fundamental to the human condition. when afraid, social predators seem to have an instinct to attack perceived weakness from within the group, though admitted, cultural, racial and religious differences equating weakness is a distinct human perversion.

in any event, nativism, as a distinct flavour o' bigotry, has reared its ugly head a number o' times in US history. extreme income inequality and fundamental changes in the labor force is common characteristics o' rising nativism. 

https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtid=2&psid=3432#

in the late 1890s, +40% o' the US population lived and worked on farms. by 1920, the agriculture accounted for ~1/4 o' the US workforce. at the same time, while the economy were s'posed booming, from a practical pov, most people were getting poorer.

rise in political populism

blame o' immigrants for all woes

nostalgia for "traditional" values

etc.

just as the US never brought back all those family farms, the lost manufacturing jobs ain't coming back to the states, and ai is gonna disappear many entry-level white collar jobs young people has counted on for decades. an eat the rich moment is coming for the tech oligarchs if the income inequality issue ain't addressed, and no amount o' social media manipulation is gonna convince people that everything is wonderful when they cannot afford minimal health insurance and rent. 

given how similar is the economic and social reality o' 2020s US when compared to the 1920s, spawning objectively hypocritical and ridiculous proto fascists such as miller is perhaps a feature as opposed to an aberration o' the times we find ourselves.  

HA! Good Fun!

[Agiel]

Quote

 

"I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor or degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia*, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic]."

-Abraham Lincoln to Joshua Speed, 1855.

 

Perhaps this also explains the current administration's weird obsession with striking some notional grand bargain with Putin. 

*In fairness to Czarist Russia serfdom would be abolished about the time the American Civil War kicked off, two years before the Emancipation Proclamation, and almost four before the 13th Amendment was ratified.

Edited December 28, 2025 by Agiel

[uuuhhii]

6 hours ago, Agiel said:

Perhaps this also explains the current administration's weird obsession with striking some notional grand bargain with Putin. 

*In fairness to Czarist Russia serfdom would be abolished about the time the American Civil War kicked off, two years before the Emancipation Proclamation, and almost four before the 13th Amendment was ratified.

 

didn't brazil abolish slavery in 1850

always weird that usa are so proud of being this late to the party

Edited December 28, 2025 by uuuhhii

[rjshae]

10 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

didn't brazil abolish slavery in 1850

always weird that usa are so proud of being this late to the party

Not so sure its pride as much as memorializing the 750,000 people who died while settling the issue.

[Gromnir]

11 hours ago, rjshae said:

Not so sure its pride as much as memorializing the 750,000 people who died while settling the issue.

history is difficult. in the south, the united daughters of the confederacy were successful in their efforts to promote the lost cause narrative which established that the civil war weren't about slavery so much as state's rights.

https://time.com/5013943/john-kelly-civil-war-textbooks/

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/costs-confederacy-special-report-180970731/

even so, in high school, Gromnir were taught that slavery were a profound evil and that it were shameful it persisted so long after the founding o' the republic. that so many generations o' enslaved had needed to suffer and that the pernicious practice were entrenched in our culture to such a degree that a bloody civil war were needed to end it were a source o' national shame and regret... which in part is why the maga folks is so torqued 'bout woke education. 

later, at university, we discovered that most o' the founders were educated men who viewed slavery as morally repugnant but they nevertheless went along with the 3/5ths compromise 'cause the economic and political costs o' ending slavery were seen as too high. most founders believed slavery were already on its proverbial last legs in any event, but they lacked the courage to drive a stake into slavery's putrefying heart. educated men, who no doubt saw themselves as just and moral, nevertheless knowing made a deal to prolong a practice they viewed as vile, which is maybe not so surprising as more than a couple o' those educated founders were personal relying on slave labor to maintain their expansive farms. contrary to what we were taught in high school, the founders weren't simple men o' their time, ignorant o' slavery's evil. they knew what they were doing. they knew it were wrong. they did it anyways.

'course eli whitney's cotton gin fundamental changed the economics o' southern agriculture almost overnight, which not surprising changed the politics o' slavery as well. 

as an aside, even today most is taught that the US civil war were an insular fight 'tween northern and southern states... is right there in the name, no? civil war. the thing is, the confederacy's goals for slavery were a bit more grand as they envisioned an agricultural slave empire which included further conquest in latin america.

even less well known is how some forms o' chattel slavery and debt peonage persisted in the US long after the 13th Amendment was ratified... heck, long after juneteenth. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/slavery-another-name-slavery-video/

btw, even though debt peonage were finally ended as the US entered ww2, the final debt slave were not emancipated until 1963. furthermore, as difficult as it might be to believe, we ain't genuine ended slavery in the US. we mentioned the 13th Amendment, yes?

section 1. neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

section 2. congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

kinda a big exception, no?

oh, and our recollection is that brazil were literal the last nation in the western hemisphere to abolish slavery, so...

as we said, history is difficult.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited December 29, 2025 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

history is difficult. in the south, the united daughters of the confederacy were successful in their efforts to promote the lost cause narrative which established that the civil war weren't about slavery so much as state's rights.

https://time.com/5013943/john-kelly-civil-war-textbooks/

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/costs-confederacy-special-report-180970731/

even so, in high school, Gromnir were taught that slavery were a profound evil and that it were shameful it persisted so long after the founding o' the republic. that so many generations o' enslaved had needed to suffer and that the pernicious practice were entrenched in our culture to such a degree that a bloody civil war were needed to end it were a source o' national shame and regret... which in part is why the maga folks is so torqued 'bout woke education. 

later, at university, we discovered that most o' the founders were educated men who viewed slavery as morally repugnant but they nevertheless went along with the 3/5ths compromise 'cause the economic and political costs o' ending slavery were seen as too high. most founders believed slavery were already on its proverbial last legs in any event, but they lacked the courage to drive a stake into slavery's putrefying heart. educated men, who no doubt saw themselves as just and moral, nevertheless knowing made a deal to prolong a practice they viewed as vile, which is maybe not so surprising as more than a couple o' those educated founders were personal relying on slave labor to maintain their expansive farms. contrary to what we were taught in high school, the founders weren't simple men o' their time, ignorant o' slavery's evil. they knew what they were doing. they knew it were wrong. they did it anyways.

'course eli whitney's cotton gin fundamental changed the economics o' southern agriculture almost overnight, which not surprising changed the politics o' slavery as well. 

as an aside, even today most is taught that the US civil war were an insular fight 'tween northern and southern states... is right there in the name, no? civil war. the thing is, the confederacy's goals for slavery were a bit more grand as they envisioned an agricultural slave empire which included further conquest in latin america.

even less well known is how some forms o' chattel slavery and debt peonage persisted in the US long after the 13th Amendment was ratified... heck, long after juneteenth. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/slavery-another-name-slavery-video/

btw, even though debt peonage were finally ended as the US entered ww2, the final debt slave were not emancipated until 1963. furthermore, as difficult as it might be to believe, we ain't genuine ended slavery in the US. we mentioned the 13th Amendment, yes?

section 1. neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

section 2. congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

kinda a big exception, no?

oh, and our recollection is that brazil were literal the last nation in the western hemisphere to abolish slavery, so...

as we said, history is difficult.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

usa history are not really complicated

reconstruction failed

usa refuse to punish treason in 1870 just like they refuse to punish treason in 2020

 

Edited December 29, 2025 by uuuhhii

[Malcador]

18 hours ago, rjshae said:

Not so sure its pride as much as memorializing the 750,000 people who died while settling the issue.

Didn't know that many Union soldiers died 

[rjshae]

12 hours ago, Malcador said:

Didn't know that many Union soldiers died 

I think that's a combined (rough) estimate.

How Many Died in the American Civil War?

2% of the population; the deadliest war in US history.

[uuuhhii]

so silver will be restricted soon

it really look more and more like 1840

[Malcador]

12 hours ago, rjshae said:

I think that's a combined (rough) estimate.

How Many Died in the American Civil War?

2% of the population; the deadliest war in US history.

Just a tongue in cheek joke that the rebels didn't count.  

[rjshae]

#####-Kennedy Center says it plans to sue jazz musician who canceled Christmas performance over ##### name change

Yeah, because we all know how much a legal threat encourages the arts. Perhaps Mr. Redd could follow Marshawn Lynch's example, "I'm just here so I don't get fined."

[Gromnir]

New Year’s Eve Concerts at Kennedy Center Are Canceled

Richard Grenell, the Kennedy Center’s chairman, said in a statement on Monday night that the artists canceling shows were “far-left political activists” and that they had been booked by previous leadership. “Boycotting the arts to show you support the arts is a form of derangement syndrome,” he said.

After Mr. Redd canceled the Christmas Eve concert, Mr. Grenell called it “classic intolerance” and threatened a $1 million lawsuit.

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

15 hours ago, rjshae said:

#####-Kennedy Center says it plans to sue jazz musician who canceled Christmas performance over ##### name change

Yeah, because we all know how much a legal threat encourages the arts. Perhaps Mr. Redd could follow Marshawn Lynch's example, "I'm just here so I don't get fined."

Its an interesting one, there is a view that arts and sports should be apolitical but people tend to be inconsistent around this type of activism

For example in South Africa there is a famous musician called Black Coffee who had a concert in Israel  a few years ago and he was heavily criticized by the anti-Israeli groups 

But those same activists will be fine if he plays in an African country that is a failed stated or autocracy where citizens are repressed

I think its up to the artist or sports person and there own moral decision because you cant really separate the optics of politics from the arts and sports and you will get criticised whatever decision you make 

 

 

[Malcador]

Someone should get RATM booked at the Kennedy Center.

[uuuhhii]

usa department of education start to more forcefully collect student debt now

remember when the last president have a chance to forgive all student debt but didn't

[Agiel]

The man whose views JD Vance and Peter Thiel subscribe to:

 

To which I say...

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:17 AM by Agiel

[uuuhhii]

eu want to implement carbon import tax while giving up on renewable energy and ev

are they delusional hypocritical or desperate

[Elerond]

4 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

eu want to implement carbon import tax while giving up on renewable energy and ev

are they delusional hypocritical or desperate

Carbon import tax is already implemented, it comes in effect starting from today. It adds same tax/cost to imported steel, cement, hydrogen, aluminum, fertilizers and electricity which is paid for those products if they are produced in EU via EU's emission trading system. It has been in transitional phase from 2023. During transition phase importers only needed to declare emissions and buy Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (CBAM) certificate. Producers in EU also lose their free CO2 allowances and now they need to pay for each CO2 ton they produce.

EU parliament and commission are looking to extend hard cut deadline for combustion engines, so that there would be no total ban for combustion engines in 2035, because of lobbying from European car manufactures. Current plan is to allow production of new combustion engines after 2035, but they need to use renewable fuel or hydrogen.

Renewable energy become cheaper today compared to energy produced by fossil fuel, because energy producers using fossil fuel lost their free CO2 allowances. Renewable Energy Financing Mechanism (RENEWFM) is the largest EU financial aid tool for building new energy production.

[Malcador]

I can only laugh 

[Hurlshort]

Oh no, they listened to experts in their field instead of the common folk. 

[Sarex]

Apparently the US captured Maduro and his wife.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:07 PM by Sarex

[BruceVC]

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/venezuela-us-military-strikes-maduro-trump/

 

What an unexpected end to Maduros presidency

The most mind blowing part is how Delta Force was able to infiltrate Caracas, kidnap him and get him on a plane to the US 

Where was his security forces, what a collapse of internal security

But its an important first step, Maduro needed to go and this was relatively painless 

 

[Gorgon]

It's not a bad outcome. Now we just need Trump to do the same to Netanjahu.