The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[Malcador]

Trump seems like he has ADHD more than anything else.

[Gorgon]

Didn't he for real have the dementia walk. 

[Gromnir]

repeat fail

Edited 9 hours ago by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

No, there isn't. It was already addressed, twice, and quite specifically that you could substitute cognition issues for dementia. Precisely because I knew you'd try to make a big deal out of it.

the fact you offered the same non-response twice does not double its value. just an fyi.

as to why any reasonable person would be curious about why the President were given the MoCA following an event in which he displayed possible neurological symptoms is hardly a mystery and we don't need some kinda proof o' degeneration to explain to any honest person. the wh team doctors and a dozen specialists did a battery o' tests in response to an event which startled americans but looks positive banal by trump's 2025 standards. is also more than a few psychiatrists who based on a considerable volume o' observable trump behavior has also expressed concerns... we linked one such but it is hardly an outlier. describing trump symptoms as pathognomonic and comparing to recent and past footage makes Gromnir ask reasonable questions.  'tween genuine expert concerns, coupled with trump lies, we got a choice to either accept zor's self-serving and misleading conclusions based on his flawed description o' tests and conditions (have already pointed out the mischaracterization o' the MoCA and the degenerative aspects of dementia via links to reputable sources,) or we could admit we still don't know just how mental fit is trump or why he were given the original MoCA.

am asking the question 'cause is more relevant today than were the case in 2018 when an episode led to a team o' experts testing trump. am also asking the question, 'cause while zor medical observations about the possibility o' trump's mental fitness is quaint, they run up against actual psychiatrist and neurologist opinions, real experts who has genuine concerns. 'am also asking questions 'cause trump lies, so is near impossible to provide conclusive medical proof; nobody save trump and his doctors has access to his medical records and test results. unlike tucker or zor just asking questions about seth rich, there is no way get essential information about the President's condition. 

one-uping biden were never a convincing answer to the question, in spite o' fact that were one proffer. taking what came straight from the horse's mouth in the absence o' concrete evidence were also hardly a reasonable answer to the question. 

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

So yes, you are saying that Trump has an issue, and it's a cognitive one.

no. as noted, for all we know, the test were administered 'cause the doctors believed he had suffered a stroke, TIA or even some other event (again, am not the one pretending expertise an misrepresenting the MoCA and dementia which has necessitated us linking actual sources on multiple occasions) which could have had a very limited impact or duration.   however, am recognizing that the explanation offered by trump and his doctors were not convincing at the time. heck, trump, following the recent media focus on his hand bruising and cankles, finally admitted to chronic venous insufficiency.

again, whether trump has clinical dementia at this time is largely immaterial in our estimation. 

On 11/1/2025 at 11:06 PM, Gromnir said:

but again, "as grotesque as it might be, am gonna suggest americans is much better off with a President who reflexive lies than one who is honest taking pride in his dementia test results." notice we didn't place trump's possible dementia in the balance, but if we take zor's max gullible position, that would mean the President o' the united states is genuine proud of having been able to draw ten-to-eleven on a blank clock face. 

"I took it at Walter Reed Medical Center in front of doctors,” Mr. Trump said. “And they were very surprised. They said, that’s an unbelievable thing. Rarely does anybody do what you just did..."

sooooo... no doubt zor also believes that the doctors were "very surprised," by trump being able to identify an elephant.

trump has lied about his medical issues near as many times as zor has done the whatabout and strawman schtick; is difficult to keep an accurate count. we don't know answers and so like everybody else, we ask the question knowing we will never get definitive proof. lord knows am not taking zor's medical conclusions as particular compelling and your efforts at logic is... amusing.

willing following zor down rabbit holes is exhausting and stoopid, so am not able to blame anybody save our self. nevertheless, am always shocked by your endurance in the face o' pointlessness. congratulations?

HA! Good Fun!

ps @Gorgon the walk issue is addressed in the link we shared. is just one guy, but you seem to have questions...

Edited 12 hours ago by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

apologies for the double, but we shouldn't make anybody suffer another response about trump's bs regarding his 2018 MoCA.

the atlantic article is behind a paywall, but am seeing there is a 49 minute interview wherein the author discusses the relevant subject matter. were posted today. have not watched the interview, but since am having read the article, am admitted curious to hear what mr. kahloon has to say.

edit: we saw 1/2 o' the interview and am tempted to remove the link. the interview is not bad, but similar to tucker carlson, sean hannity and don lemon, the interviewer is an opinion person who is too invested in having the interviewed person agree with them.  will leave, but...

am thinking the linked tweet is enough to trigger a couple people, but in any event, we found the take to be thought provoking.

@Hurlshot and @Amentep is the individuals who most frequent express strong opinions about the US educational system, but is noteworthy that kahloon also speaks to a few european trends by way o' contrast, but more surprising as similarity o' problems.

as an aside, am gonna admit that post retirement am actual less involved in volunteering at local schools than when we were gainful employed. the reason we pulled back is 'cause we noticed a trend o' teachers becoming more hesitant and reluctant to correct bad personal and educational habits. if a student weren't doing assignments, then it were the fault o' the teacher for offering too much homework or for failing to make assignments students wanted to complete. bullying and obnoxious students has always been a thing, 'cause kids are obnoxious and bullying is human nature that must needs be taught is wrong, but we were disappointed by how what we saw as bad behaviour were becoming normalized too frequent. our problem with kids these days were actual an issue with teachers and administrators, 'cause am not thinking the kids changed for reals. nevertheless, we were discouraged enough by the prospect o' going full grumpy old man, so am now only volunteering at the mustard seed school in sacramento, but 'cause o' issues, the drive is a bit difficult for us to manage regular.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited 11 hours ago by Gromnir

[Hurlshort]

[Gromnir]

22 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

image

is a cartoon, but nevertheless, the displayed situation aligns with what we witnessed. evolving student and parent behaviour explains the capitulation, but it don't change it. is doubtful anybody is satisfied with the conclusion that decreases in overall student performance is the fault o' misguided parents and recalcitrant students. today we demand less from students... save for in mississippi? 

...

there is an obvious follow-up query, no?

HA! Good Fun!

ps removed the image to reduce our clutter.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Gromnir

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Hurlshort said:

It's all your fault Hurlshot.

[Gromnir]

55 minutes ago, Malcador said:

It's all your fault Hurlshot.

it would be fantastic if it were true, 'cause then the solution would be simple. gonna guess the real solution is less straightforward. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

Not sure I can add much other than I think, like most things, it's not one thing but a multitude of things. 

Also test scores have meaning but often times aren't really applied or interpreted very well when discussed in the general public. I think this includes using test scores to the exclusion of other measures when discussing success metrics.

[Chairchucker]

On 10/31/2025 at 5:18 PM, BruceVC said:

Can you imagine if Biden had become president with his condition 

During Donald's second term, he has:

Pardoned approximately 1500 people who stormed the capitol

Signed an executive order to end birthright citizenship, while also telling the lie that the USA is the only country in the world that does this. (It was blocked for being unconstitutional.)

Signed an executive order withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement. (Coincidentally, his campaign took $75mil from fossil fuel interests, and the new energy secretary founded a fracking firm.)

Signed an executive order putting a pause on all US foreign development assistance programs

Signed an executive order to end DEI (I know Bruce will probably approve of this one because every time someone links to a study that proves that systemic racism definitely still exists, thus necessitating things like DEI, he'll just go hmm agree to disagree)

Appointed a secretary of defense with a history of allegations of sexual violence, alcoholism, workplace misconduct, being sympathetic to neo-nazis, and a white supremacy symbol tattooed on his chest

Talked about the possibility of running for an unconstitutional third term

Signed an executive order banning trans people from serving in the military

Signed an executive order to restrict gender affirming health care to people under the age of 19, against the advice of current research on the subject

Blamed a crash on 'DEI' while an investigation was still ongoing

Appointed as secretary of health and human services a man who had part of his brain eaten by a worm, who has gone on to misinterpret a bunch of studies to perpetuate harmful stereotypes around biological differences between black and white people

Empowered ICE to act with almost no oversight, leading to a number of false arrests and unchecked violence against legal immigrants and US citizens

 

 

That was just January.

 

It takes a mixture of stupidity and evil to look at this current administration and think 'what a relief we don't have Biden.'

[Zoraptor]

To be fair to Bruce not wanting Biden/ being relieved he isn't president is not the same as being happy Trump won. He might well prefer if some milquetoast US Keir Starmer equivalent or establishment republican won instead of either. 

7 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the fact you offered the same non-response twice does not double its value. just an fyi.

Yes, it retains its same value. Which was an absolute refutation of your claim. It wouldn't matter if repeating the same thing doubled the value of your gaslighting though, since its value started out at zero.

I mean really, you could just have dropped it. Not like I actually care, and it was an easy enough thing to miss. Tripling down, though, that is definition gaslighting.

Quote

as to why any reasonable person would be curious about why the President were given the MoCA following an event in which he displayed possible neurological symptoms is hardly a mystery and we don't need some kinda proof o' degeneration to explain to any honest person.

Ah, curiousity, the mother of speculation/ 'just asking questions'.

Yes, you do have to come up with some kind of evidence of degeneration, when the source of your 'curiousity' dates back 8 years, two election campaigns, nearly 3 years as president etc etc and cognitive issues are almost always degenerative. Or, alternatively, suggest how it isn't degenerative in his case. Again, he was tested for anxiety and depression as well, does that mean his doctors think he's depressed? Doesn't seem very likely. You only think taking a MoCA is 'curious' and the other tests aren't because the MoCA reinforces your preconceived notion, and the others don't.

As always, the only disorder you've shown actual evidence for Trump having is... being Trump, which everyone already knows about.

(Said it before, will say it again: Trump speaks how people think. That is one of the reasons a lot of people like him, and relate to him no matter how silly it may seem for some random blue collar worker from Milwaukee or Toledo to relate to a 'billionaire'. Most people in the public eye train themselves for years to not speak as they think since typically a Trump like politician would fail instantly. Not speaking the same way you think is what the more, hmm, politically aware/ educated set tend to expect and will find any deviation from that unusual. But unusual does not in itself imply a disorder)

[Gromnir]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

No, there isn't. It was already addressed, twice, and quite specifically that you could substitute cognition issues for dementia. Precisely because I knew you'd try to make a big deal out of it.

umm

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Tripling down, though, that is definition gaslighting.

yeah...

you aren't even trying anymore. the biden stuff failed. the circular strawman got the stuffing knocked out if it multiple times-- am not knowing the specific motivation for a doctor administering the initial MoCA test o' trump and we sure never stated that presumed dementia were necessarily that motivation. am having linked to sources describing how the MoCA is actual used as 'posed to zor mischaracterizations. have shared the observations o' a real psychiatrist who were a professor at johns hopkins (could provide multiple other psychiatrist and neurologist opinions btw,) and is convinced trump has dementia and that his condition is definitional degenerative... though in an over-abundance o' caution, and precise 'cause we do not have accurate trump medical records, am unwilling to go so far our self. when there is conflicting info it is better to wait for clarity before announcing a conclusion which may look foolish in five minutes, a situation with which zor is all too familiar. your patently unbelievable gullibility in believing statements from trump about his health exams in the absence o' clear and convincing evidence to the contrary is ludicrous.  etc. and so on...

before the 2024 election, we observed how trump's mental fitness were such that we wouldn't trust him to operate a gas stove, and we sure as hell wouldn't voluntarily be a passenger in a car he were driving in boston or chicago rush hour traffic. if we wouldn't trust trump's mental (as opposed to physical) faculties in such situations, and am suspecting many/most here would have similar reservations, the notion we would be okie dokie with trump as President of the United States were untenable... even w/o reflecting on all the jan 6 (tds? HA!), digital rape, business fraud, tariffs and mass deportation promises and so on and so forth. we didn't need a clinical diagnosis o' dementia, but a normal and reasonable person, given all the circumstances and expert opinion on the matter previously shared these past few pages, and recognizing that trump has lied about his health since always, and has specific been unbelievable about the MoCA since 2018, would no doubt find it challenging to conclude with any certainty that trump were mental ok. potus should not be an office where you need have such a debate. 

go to 15:00

 

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Trump speaks how people think.

is maybe how zor thinks, but hey, take trump at his word that he true believes that there aren't alot of people in that room who would get every question on the MoCA correct. doctors almost never see a perfect score. *chuckle* he is convinced o' such. no doubt you believe that his doctors were legit surprised by how well he scored. there were a guy on this board recent who posited "chronic narcissism" as the motivation for initial taking and then bragging about passing the MoCA. hard to believe, no? but hey, if trump is so delusional that he thinks that what he were saying at 15:00 about the difficulty o' the MoCA test and his doctor's responses, then maybe you are right... but 'course then we got a whole different set o' problems and am left back where we started that it don't matter if there trump is clinical demented 'cause he is clear nuts.

@Chairchucker

am seeming to recall a little detail which made the biden v. trump stuff irrelevant.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited 4 hours ago by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

During Donald's second term, he has:

Pardoned approximately 1500 people who stormed the capitol

Signed an executive order to end birthright citizenship, while also telling the lie that the USA is the only country in the world that does this. (It was blocked for being unconstitutional.)

Signed an executive order withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement. (Coincidentally, his campaign took $75mil from fossil fuel interests, and the new energy secretary founded a fracking firm.)

Signed an executive order putting a pause on all US foreign development assistance programs

Signed an executive order to end DEI (I know Bruce will probably approve of this one because every time someone links to a study that proves that systemic racism definitely still exists, thus necessitating things like DEI, he'll just go hmm agree to disagree)

Appointed a secretary of defense with a history of allegations of sexual violence, alcoholism, workplace misconduct, being sympathetic to neo-nazis, and a white supremacy symbol tattooed on his chest

Talked about the possibility of running for an unconstitutional third term

Signed an executive order banning trans people from serving in the military

Signed an executive order to restrict gender affirming health care to people under the age of 19, against the advice of current research on the subject

Blamed a crash on 'DEI' while an investigation was still ongoing

Appointed as secretary of health and human services a man who had part of his brain eaten by a worm, who has gone on to misinterpret a bunch of studies to perpetuate harmful stereotypes around biological differences between black and white people

Empowered ICE to act with almost no oversight, leading to a number of false arrests and unchecked violence against legal immigrants and US citizens

 

 

That was just January.

 

It takes a mixture of stupidity and evil to look at this current administration and think 'what a relief we don't have Biden.'

None of that has any relevance to what I said 

Let me repeat it for clarity and give more context . The Dem strategists lied to there supporters and the world about the collapse  of Bidens mental  state. They didnt care that he was suffering from Dementia because they had convinced themselves he was the " only " candidate who could beat Trump and ironically when the truth came out during that debate with Trump it only made things worse for  them and should people vote for them

What the Dems should have done after the midterms is find a new candidate selected through the DNC process but they decided to stick with Biden despite his dementia 

If being lied to  doesn't concern you thats fine but its one of the reasons Trump had such a sweeping victory

Everything you mentioned is issues and criticisms with Trump, thats not what Im  talking about 

And yes I dont think systemic racism exists widely in the US because my definition of that is where you have laws and systems that are racist. Like in Apartheid, that was an example of systemic racism. But you can post an example of a US law or bill that is specifically racist and I will read it. But racism like all forms of bigotry does exist in the US like all other countries but its not "systemic " 

Then as @Zoraptorsaid I didnt want Trump to be the GOP candidate. But he won the RNC and he became the candidate, thats how national conventions  work in the USA 

Then I always accept the outcomes of free and fair elections in any country even if Im not happy with the outcome and Trump won in a free and fair election 

Thats how Democracy works and Im not going to change my view on this because of the candidate 

 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

35 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

If being lied to  doesn't concern you thats fine but its one of the reasons Trump had such a sweeping victory

Lol. True, not in the way you're arguing, though.

Edited 2 hours ago by Malcador

[Chairchucker]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

None of that has any relevance to what I said 

The comment I replied to was "Can you imagine if Biden had become president with his condition". The alternative that we actually got is very relevant. And in a subsequent back and forth you expressed incredulity that someone else would prefer Biden over Trump. So yes, you were absolutely making the rhetorical point that you felt Biden would've been worse, so why lie about it?

 

As to the question of systemic racism, like I mentioned, on other occasions when people (including me) have sourced evidence that it definitely exists, you've kinda shrugged and said 'well agree to disagree' so forgive me if I don't feel particularly motivated to expend the effort again on someone who has consistently demonstrated willingness to give infinite benefit of the doubt to fascists and white supremacists.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Lol. True, not in the way you're arguing, though.

I would argue Trump was very honest on what  he would change and implement if he won the election, at least on main things

The main  voting issues that concerned US citizens were

• crime 
• illegal migration\border control
• inflation

Things like DEI or the Israeli vs Palestinian conflict were not primary voting issues 

So Trump will and should be judged on those deliverables in the midterms. This weeks elections in NJ and Virginia should be an interesting bellwether for the midterms and the GOP current popularity  

21 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

The comment I replied to was "Can you imagine if Biden had become president with his condition". The alternative that we actually got is very relevant. And in a subsequent back and forth you expressed incredulity that someone else would prefer Biden over Trump. So yes, you were absolutely making the rhetorical point that you felt Biden would've been worse, so why lie about it?

 

As to the question of systemic racism, like I mentioned, on other occasions when people (including me) have sourced evidence that it definitely exists, you've kinda shrugged and said 'well agree to disagree' so forgive me if I don't feel particularly motivated to expend the effort again on someone who has consistently demonstrated willingness to give infinite benefit of the doubt to fascists and white supremacists.

But its a silly point you making  and false equivalence 

A person cannot run for the job of US president if they fail certain basic health expectations and Dementia is one of those things 

So Biden should never had been the Dem candidate.  Whats the point of saying " but Biden would have been better " when his cognitive reality disqualifies him

Its a completely hypothetical debate and seems like a waste of time. You can argue Harris would have been better than Trump but she lost the election

So Im not making a rhetorical point, Im stating categorically " Biden was never  a presidential candidate because of his dementia "

And then you probably not aware of the racism and discrimination against white men that DEI has created in certain countries 

Like the case of the UK RAF, it happens and you should be outraged. Discrimation is wrong !!! And it was a women who exposed this practice 

https://news.sky.com/story/complete-nonsense-if-raf-is-pausing-job-offers-for-white-men-over-impossible-diversity-targets-javid-says-12674947

 

"Sajid Javid has said it would be "complete nonsense" if the RAF has placed an "effective pause" on offering jobs to white male recruits in favour of women and ethnic minorities.

It comes after defence sources told Sky News on Tuesday that the head of RAF recruitment had resigned in protest at the move which aims to hit "impossible" diversity targets.

The senior female officer apparently handed in her notice in recent days amid concerns that any such restrictions on hiring, however temporary and limited, could undermine the fighting strength of the Royal Air Force (RAF), the sources said. "

 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/11/4/nyc-mayoral-election-live-mamdani-leads-polls-against-cuomo-sliwa

I see Mamdani will win the NY mayoral race

What a racist country the US is that a person born in Uganda who openly believes in socialism could win an election in the wealthiest city in the US

Those Nazi\racist people in the US, Im outraged 

[Amentep]

5 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I would argue Trump was very honest on what  he would change and implement if he won the election, at least on main things

It was 'very honest' that Trump told the electorate he didn't know what Project 2025 was despite his VP candidate having written the introduction to the published version and having several of its key architects of said document working for him and which he has subsequently went on to implement Project 2025's agenda without fail?

Doesn't seem very honest to me.