The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Ultimately it always boils down to Us vs Them, and Israel is incontrovertibly Us so far as the vast majority of political elites in the west are concerned. For that, Ukraine doesn't matter, at all. Whatever Israel has done previous* criticism has been extremely muted, if present at all.

If it weren't Russia, it would be China, if it weren't China it would be someone else. As an obese former flying ace with a penchant for women's clothing observed, it's easy, effective and extremely tempting to use fear to manipulate the population wherever you are. Elites always need enemies and if one is not apparent it will be invented.

(Dunno how successful the UK government has been. Designating Palestinian Action as big t Terrorist and having Brave Bobbies regularly arresting 80 year old grannies among the thousands of others for literally holding signs has been an international embarrassment moderated only slightly by the domestic media not being able to say outright how stupid it was because, of course, that would be... Supporting Terrorism. Now, just imagine if it was Russia doing... actually you don't have to imagine, because Russia has an equivalent law and we've seen the media reaction to them using it the same way)

*excluding 1956, but that was mostly the US/ USSR wanting to make sure Britain and France were permanently Broken as world powers, Israel's invasion of Egypt was pretty much an afterthought and it was only the US part of the west objecting.

The UK has never  past broad  laws that  banned all  people from protesting or arrested anyone who criticizes the governments and its policies. The constant criticism of the UK state and its leaders by many different groups on  a wide range of issues  occurs on a daily basis in the UK. Its nothing like Russia or China  and its oppressive laws criminalizing basic freedom of speech 

Palestinian Action was banned because of constant criminal acts during protests and damage to property and it took months of these criminal acts before they were banned. We have discussed this before. Palestinian action was never banned for " holding signs " 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-09-08/debates/5FF141EC-DE6E-4A17-AD2B-121416D0681B/PalestineActionProscriptionAndProtests

" Some of those holding placards in support of Palestine Action may not know the extent of its activities. It has conducted an escalating campaign involving intimidation and sustained criminal damage, including to Britain’s national security infrastructure. Some of its attacks have involved the use of weapons, resulting in alleged violence and serious injuries to individuals. Palestine Action’s members have been charged with violent disorder, grievous bodily harm with intent, actual bodily harm, criminal damage and aggravated burglary—charges that include, in the assessment of the independent Crown Prosecution Service, a terrorism connection.These are not the actions of a legitimate protest group, and for a Government to ignore expert security assessments, advice and recommendations would be highly irresponsible. Were there to be further serious attacks or injuries, questions would rightly be asked about why action had not been taken. "

 

 

 

 

 

[Gorgon]

14 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Ultimately it always boils down to Us vs Them, and Israel is incontrovertibly Us so far as the vast majority of political elites in the west are concerned. For that, Ukraine doesn't matter, at all. Whatever Israel has done previous* criticism has been extremely muted, if present at all.

If it weren't Russia, it would be China, if it weren't China it would be someone else. As an obese former flying ace with a penchant for women's clothing observed, it's easy, effective and extremely tempting to use fear to manipulate the population wherever you are. Elites always need enemies and if one is not apparent it will be invented.

(Dunno how successful the UK government has been. Designating Palestinian Action as big t Terrorist and having Brave Bobbies regularly arresting 80 year old grannies among the thousands of others for literally holding signs has been an international embarrassment moderated only slightly by the domestic media not being able to say outright how stupid it was because, of course, that would be... Supporting Terrorism. Now, just imagine if it was Russia doing... actually you don't have to imagine, because Russia has an equivalent law and we've seen the media reaction to them using it the same way)

*excluding 1956, but that was mostly the US/ USSR wanting to make sure Britain and France were permanently Broken as world powers, Israel's invasion of Egypt was pretty much an afterthought and it was only the US part of the west objecting.

I think the point is to filter away the activists and turn Labour towards the centre. So from Starmer's perspective it's worth the loss. The activists don't really have anywhere to go, they can't vote Corbyn in a national election.  Labour is afraid of reform and pro Palestinian is a left wing academic or immigrant friendly place to stand. 

He's also afraid of the Pro Palestinian youth vote, the polling extremely bad for positioning yourself as pro Israel, which is probably why he reversed stance on the recognition of Palestine (a completely symbolic gesture) and there was also a genuine effort in the EU to cancel the trade agreement with Israel (actual pressure). That's going to fail though, that would be my bet. Defence cooperation and Ukraine as well as US relations will mean that any fig leaf or vague declaration of intent from Israel will be good enough to avoid it 

[Lexx]

https://nypost.com/2025/10/15/us-news/swastika-pictured-inside-ohio-congressman-dave-taylors-office/

"Stop calling them nazis!111" yeah yeah.

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Lexx said:

https://nypost.com/2025/10/15/us-news/swastika-pictured-inside-ohio-congressman-dave-taylors-office/

"Stop calling them nazis!111" yeah yeah.

Vance's defense, and thus MAGA,  is that they are edgy kids.  Well or Democrats said worse. 

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Palestinian Action was banned because of constant criminal acts during protests and damage to property and it took months of these criminal acts before they were banned. We have discussed this before. Palestinian action was never banned for " holding sign

Look at the proscribed groups and honestly argue Palestine Action fits in.

[rjshae]

With the government shut down, DJT now wants to build a French-style arch in time for the nation's 250th anniversary (2026). So... that would be in nine months. Uh-huh. BTW, the Arc de Triumphe took 30 years to build, but I suppose ours could be 3D printed. 

[Malcador]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/16/world/americas/trinidad-us-military-venezuela-boats.html

Shouldn't be surprised the current administration acts like some bad cop stereotype but still is remarkable.

Edited yesterday at 03:52 AM by Malcador

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/16/world/americas/trinidad-us-military-venezuela-boats.html

Shouldn't be surprised the current administration acts like some bad cop stereotype but still is remarkable.

The justification is flimsy since most drug trafficking takes place by land. This repeated murdering of civilians is more about imagery; he's playing to his party followers.

[BruceVC]

19 hours ago, Malcador said:

Vance's defense, and thus MAGA,  is that they are edgy kids.  Well or Democrats said worse. 

Look at the proscribed groups and honestly argue Palestine Action fits in.

Palestinian Action has members which have faced a wide range of criminal   charges that include breaking into a RAF base and damaging and vandalizing planes

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/20/uk/palestine-action-protest-uk-airbase-security-breach-intl

" Pro-Palestinian activists broke into Britain’s largest air base and damaged two military aircraft in central England early Friday.

Palestine Action, a UK-based group that aims to disrupt the operations of weapons manufacturers supplying the Israeli government, posted footage of the action to its X account.

The video shows two people riding on electric scooters on the tarmac of RAF Brize Norton, in Oxfordshire.

Britain isn’t just complicit, it’s an active participant in the Gaza genocide and war crimes across the Middle East,” a Palestine Action spokesperson said in a statement.

By decommissioning two military planes, Palestine Action have directly intervened in the genocide and prevented crimes against the Palestinian people,” it added.

A Ministry of Defence source told CNN that RAF Voyagers do not carry anything for the Israeli forces or refuel Israeli aircraft.

The incident raises wider questions as to how the activists – who have not been apprehended – managed to get into the airbase undetected. RAF Brize Norton has approximately 5,800 service personnel, 300 civilian staff and 1,200 contractors. "

 

Im not sure what the criteria is to get banned in the UK but like all countries when you part of a  banned group you will get arrested by association 

If Canada banned a Neo-Nazi group and you decided to  join that group and then  the Canadian authorities raided a safehouse of this group and you were there you would be arrested and charged because you an active member, even if you havent broken other laws just the fact you a member is enough. Im sure that's  normal anywhere in the world where a group is determined to be illegal or banned?

Thats all the UK is doing around Palestinian Action, they enforcing the law now that the group is banned and its on the proscribed list 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:20 AM by BruceVC

[uuuhhii]

and communist are banned from election because of reichstag fire

does people get paid to do this kind of delusional mental gymnastic

[BruceVC]

32 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

and communist are banned from election because of reichstag fire

 

I dont see the relevance?

Where do you live, dont you have groups that are banned? You need to look at the specific reasons why a government bans any group to see if its fair or legitimate 

But you cant generalize and say " banning any group is bad "

Or that would mean any  Neo-Nazi , AQ or ISIS linked group would be able to operate in any country 

And thats obviously not the reality of the world and how most governments operate

There are legitimate reasons to ban groups 

 

 

[Zoraptor]

Kind of hilarious watching Sir Kid Starver try and get Maccabi fans- unapologetic genocide enthusiasts who have both provoked and committed violence wherever they've gone- allowed in over police objections while banning Palestine Action for considerably less violence. Plus, of course, not wanting the Palestine Action decision to be subject to Judicial Review. Always a sure sign that you're confident you're in the right, when you're concerned that a judge is going to throw your decision out.

[rjshae]

Fat Shady just got a little shadier...

"Trump says he has commuted sentence of former US Rep. George Santos in fraud case"

They say that people usually get the government they deserve. I suppose we had this coming.