The All Things Political Topic - SNAFU edition

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Ultimately it always boils down to Us vs Them, and Israel is incontrovertibly Us so far as the vast majority of political elites in the west are concerned. For that, Ukraine doesn't matter, at all. Whatever Israel has done previous* criticism has been extremely muted, if present at all.

If it weren't Russia, it would be China, if it weren't China it would be someone else. As an obese former flying ace with a penchant for women's clothing observed, it's easy, effective and extremely tempting to use fear to manipulate the population wherever you are. Elites always need enemies and if one is not apparent it will be invented.

(Dunno how successful the UK government has been. Designating Palestinian Action as big t Terrorist and having Brave Bobbies regularly arresting 80 year old grannies among the thousands of others for literally holding signs has been an international embarrassment moderated only slightly by the domestic media not being able to say outright how stupid it was because, of course, that would be... Supporting Terrorism. Now, just imagine if it was Russia doing... actually you don't have to imagine, because Russia has an equivalent law and we've seen the media reaction to them using it the same way)

*excluding 1956, but that was mostly the US/ USSR wanting to make sure Britain and France were permanently Broken as world powers, Israel's invasion of Egypt was pretty much an afterthought and it was only the US part of the west objecting.

The UK has never  past broad  laws that  banned all  people from protesting or arrested anyone who criticizes the governments and its policies. The constant criticism of the UK state and its leaders by many different groups on  a wide range of issues  occurs on a daily basis in the UK. Its nothing like Russia or China  and its oppressive laws criminalizing basic freedom of speech 

Palestinian Action was banned because of constant criminal acts during protests and damage to property and it took months of these criminal acts before they were banned. We have discussed this before. Palestinian action was never banned for " holding signs " 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-09-08/debates/5FF141EC-DE6E-4A17-AD2B-121416D0681B/PalestineActionProscriptionAndProtests

" Some of those holding placards in support of Palestine Action may not know the extent of its activities. It has conducted an escalating campaign involving intimidation and sustained criminal damage, including to Britain’s national security infrastructure. Some of its attacks have involved the use of weapons, resulting in alleged violence and serious injuries to individuals. Palestine Action’s members have been charged with violent disorder, grievous bodily harm with intent, actual bodily harm, criminal damage and aggravated burglary—charges that include, in the assessment of the independent Crown Prosecution Service, a terrorism connection.These are not the actions of a legitimate protest group, and for a Government to ignore expert security assessments, advice and recommendations would be highly irresponsible. Were there to be further serious attacks or injuries, questions would rightly be asked about why action had not been taken. "

 

 

 

 

 

[Gorgon]

14 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Ultimately it always boils down to Us vs Them, and Israel is incontrovertibly Us so far as the vast majority of political elites in the west are concerned. For that, Ukraine doesn't matter, at all. Whatever Israel has done previous* criticism has been extremely muted, if present at all.

If it weren't Russia, it would be China, if it weren't China it would be someone else. As an obese former flying ace with a penchant for women's clothing observed, it's easy, effective and extremely tempting to use fear to manipulate the population wherever you are. Elites always need enemies and if one is not apparent it will be invented.

(Dunno how successful the UK government has been. Designating Palestinian Action as big t Terrorist and having Brave Bobbies regularly arresting 80 year old grannies among the thousands of others for literally holding signs has been an international embarrassment moderated only slightly by the domestic media not being able to say outright how stupid it was because, of course, that would be... Supporting Terrorism. Now, just imagine if it was Russia doing... actually you don't have to imagine, because Russia has an equivalent law and we've seen the media reaction to them using it the same way)

*excluding 1956, but that was mostly the US/ USSR wanting to make sure Britain and France were permanently Broken as world powers, Israel's invasion of Egypt was pretty much an afterthought and it was only the US part of the west objecting.

I think the point is to filter away the activists and turn Labour towards the centre. So from Starmer's perspective it's worth the loss. The activists don't really have anywhere to go, they can't vote Corbyn in a national election.  Labour is afraid of reform and pro Palestinian is a left wing academic or immigrant friendly place to stand. 

He's also afraid of the Pro Palestinian youth vote, the polling extremely bad for positioning yourself as pro Israel, which is probably why he reversed stance on the recognition of Palestine (a completely symbolic gesture) and there was also a genuine effort in the EU to cancel the trade agreement with Israel (actual pressure). That's going to fail though, that would be my bet. Defence cooperation and Ukraine as well as US relations will mean that any fig leaf or vague declaration of intent from Israel will be good enough to avoid it 

[Lexx]

https://nypost.com/2025/10/15/us-news/swastika-pictured-inside-ohio-congressman-dave-taylors-office/

"Stop calling them nazis!111" yeah yeah.

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Lexx said:

https://nypost.com/2025/10/15/us-news/swastika-pictured-inside-ohio-congressman-dave-taylors-office/

"Stop calling them nazis!111" yeah yeah.

Vance's defense, and thus MAGA,  is that they are edgy kids.  Well or Democrats said worse. 

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Palestinian Action was banned because of constant criminal acts during protests and damage to property and it took months of these criminal acts before they were banned. We have discussed this before. Palestinian action was never banned for " holding sign

Look at the proscribed groups and honestly argue Palestine Action fits in.