Gorth Posted June 13 Posted June 13 22 minutes ago, Malcador said: Someone should ask what they were preempting. A peaceful solution. No one lives forever, including ayatollahs, so it might be last chance to start a war away from home when voters get restless. After all, last time peace reared it’s ugly head, the Israeli pm got assassinated “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Zoraptor Posted June 13 Author Posted June 13 Well, there was very little chance of an actual deal this weekend anyway so it likely wasn't preempting that. Though Trump kind of needs something to claim as a W after all the Ls he's accumulated. But really this is a massive slap in the face for Trump internationally. While he and Netanyahu have not been getting on well not even waiting for the negotiations to wrap up is a pretty calculated insult. 1 hour ago, Elerond said: So I am pretty sure that purpose of the attack is to prevent Iran and USA signing the deal they are currently cooking. Yep. Zero chance of the weekend meeting even taking place, now. Ultimately this is the problem with allowing Israel carte blanche and unrestricted support- you don't preserve your influence, you tell them that whatever they want to do they can do since your support is unconditional. Same goes for the other spineless blancmanges making up the Rules Based Order. If you're ok with genocide- and for all the virtue signalling they are- you're saying that you're fine with anything. (Got to lol at Bruce's reading list. Ynet and INN, just needs to add Memri for the balance of an 'iranian' pov...)
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: (Got to lol at Bruce's reading list. Ynet and INN, just needs to add Memri for the balance of an 'iranian' pov...) Which parts of those links do you think is misinformation or fake news, its the same information that all news media houses are talking but you welcome to post something different and I will read it And to summarize the main points Israel has attacked Iran because of its nuclear program The US is not directly involved Trump says the US was aware of this and they will defend Israel if attacked "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Gromnir Posted June 13 Posted June 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gorth said: After all, last time peace reared it’s ugly head, the Israeli pm got assassinated well, to be fair, the 2000 camp david thing happened after yitzhak rabin were assassinated, so... am suspecting bill clinton and @Gorth disagree about why camp david failed, but am gonna suggest it were the second intafada which marks the end o' any o' the parties involved being serious about even the possibility o' a lasting peace. *shrug* from a practical pov, am suspecting it don't matter much. for more than a couple decades, nobody has been serious about even trying to forge a lasting peace in the region. edit: Almost all of the Fulbright board resigns, citing Trump administration interference The former members said they voted to resign on Wednesday, effective immediately, "rather than endorse unprecedented actions" that they believe violate the law, compromise U.S. national interests and undermine the Fulbright program's mission and mandates. "Our resignation is not a decision we take lightly," they wrote. "But to continue to serve after the Administration has consistently ignored the Board's request that they follow the law would risk legitimizing actions we believe are unlawful and damage the integrity of this storied program and America's credibility abroad." ... only five months in and trump killed cisa, stopped enforcing white collar crime as part o' doj, stopped investigating foreign bribery and domestic terrorism as part o' the fbi mandate, gutted usaid, fired attorney generals w/o cause in addition to many thousands of probationary employees and hundreds o' other relative minor disruptions to dozens o' different departments, but few seems to notice or care. HA! Good Fun! Edited June 13 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Gorth Posted June 13 Posted June 13 @Gromnir I must shamefully admit I remember very little about the Camp David sessions What had lodged somewhere back in my head was memories of the Oslo Accords in the 90s where Rabin and Arafat committed their respective factions to mutual recognition, peace and a two state solution. Something that was a hard sell for the two leaders 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 34 minutes ago, Gorth said: @Gromnir I must shamefully admit I remember very little about the Camp David sessions What had lodged somewhere back in my head was memories of the Oslo Accords in the 90s where Rabin and Arafat committed their respective factions to mutual recognition, peace and a two state solution. Something that was a hard sell for the two leaders That was the closest the Israel and Palestinian conflict came to ending and a real sustainable peaceful solution agreed on The era of Rabin and Arafat during that time and the main difference was leaders on both sides were prepared to compromise Its such a pity Rabin was assassinated so we will never know what could have been "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
HoonDing Posted June 13 Posted June 13 how do Israel jets even reach Iran or know where to strike without US help The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 30 minutes ago, HoonDing said: how do Israel jets even reach Iran or know where to strike without US help Mossad has a very effective intelligence network and footprint in many places in the ME and Iran would be no different https://www.euronews.com/2025/06/13/israels-mossad-mounts-high-tech-covert-operation-to-strike-targets-deep-inside-iran-source " The Israeli Mossad intelligence agency mounted a multi-pronged covert operation deep inside Iran, using advanced systems and explosive drones to strike multiple targets overnight on Friday, sources told Euronews. The Mossad managed to place systems with “precision-guided weaponry" deep in Tehran's territory, a source from the Israeli intelligence told Euronews on condition of anonymity. They were positioned in open areas near Iranian surface-to-air missile systems,” the source added." Im sure the Israelis would have more intelligence on Iran than the US "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Pidesco Posted June 13 Posted June 13 What the Israelis preempted was Netanyahu's government going down. He is safe again, thanks to the attack. 1 "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist I am Dan Quayle of the Romans. I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands. Heja Sverige!! Everyone should cuffawkle more. The wrench is your friend.
Gfted1 Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Ginsu (R9X)? http://www.sloganizer.net/en/image,Gfted1,black,red.png
Malcador Posted June 13 Posted June 13 3 hours ago, HoonDing said: how do Israel jets even reach Iran or know where to strike without US help They have tankers and not like Syria or Iraq could stop them Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gorgon Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Trump made some comments that I think were intended to show that it was his decision, that he was in the loop the whole time. I wonder if that's true. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 35 minutes ago, Gorgon said: Trump made some comments that I think were intended to show that it was his decision, that he was in the loop the whole time. I wonder if that's true. I doubt it, Trumps trying to save face and suggest it was his decision because he wants to do what he always does. Project an image that he is in control Some of his comments on Truth about this are rants. The US was busy with negotiations and they were meeting Iran on Sunday so why would he plan an attack on Iran? Besides the US doesnt have the influence on Israel where it can decide when Israel launches any military campaign This was an Israeli decision and Israel has explained why which I understand, its about ending the Iran nuclear program "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Gorgon Posted June 13 Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Gfted1 said: Ginsu (R9X)? I guess he forgot to sign out of FB Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Gfted1 Posted June 13 Posted June 13 The attack occurred one day after the 60 day deadline Trump set on the negotiations. http://www.sloganizer.net/en/image,Gfted1,black,red.png
Malcador Posted June 13 Posted June 13 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-reportedly-striking-irans-fordo-underground-nuclear-site/ Seems pretty easy for Israel. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gorgon Posted June 13 Posted June 13 35 minutes ago, Gfted1 said: The attack occurred one day after the 60 day deadline Trump set on the negotiations. Isn't that the time you would choose If you were Netanyahu and wanted to stir up some chaos to replace the war in Gaza though. If there is no crisis his government very likely collapses, and Gaza is an ongoing embarrassment. His remaining allies are tired of hearing about it. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
HoonDing Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Guess the good goys will be kept very busy shooting missiles out of the sky The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 23 minutes ago, Malcador said: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-reportedly-striking-irans-fordo-underground-nuclear-site/ Seems pretty easy for Israel. Remember a couple of months ago Israel was able to successfully attack Iran and it was apparent that Irans anti-aircraft defenses is lacking Irans military prowess was also exaggerated, I thought they were more effective than what was revealed or assumed and clearly sanctions have had an overall negative impact But they do have lots of missiles and drones they can launch against Israel but I dont see them stopping the Israeli airstrikes that are imminent The sooner Iran abandons its nuclear program the better for them "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted June 13 Posted June 13 1 minute ago, BruceVC said: The sooner Iran abandons its nuclear program the better for them I doubt that'll stop much, the US and Israel will find some other reason to bomb them now and then. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 28 minutes ago, Gorgon said: Isn't that the time you would choose If you were Netanyahu and wanted to stir up some chaos to replace the war in Gaza though. If there is no crisis his government very likely collapses, and Gaza is an ongoing embarrassment. His remaining allies are tired of hearing about it. Two things can be true at the same time I do think Netanyahu uses certain events to distract from his own political shortfalls but then Israel was attacked on 7 October and Iran is trying to get nukes which is threat to the stability of the region So its not just about Israel, I dont know a single country in the region who wants Iran to get nukes except for Iran and its proxies "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
BruceVC Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Just now, Malcador said: I doubt that'll stop much, the US and Israel will find some other reason to bomb them now and then. Im not sure about that , Iran has been anti-Israel and anti-US for decades and only its nuclear program has led to this military campaign? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Just now, BruceVC said: Im not sure about that , Iran has been anti-Israel and anti-US for decades and only its nuclear program has led to this military campaign? Can't really blame them for wanting nuclear weapons after seeing Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine. Not even sure that'd be a huge deal, I know Israelis will immediately declare it'd be a second Holocaust or something but I doubt that as the Iranians don't seem more insane than say DPRK or unstable like Pakistan (America's buddies!). 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Zoraptor Posted June 13 Author Posted June 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, Pidesco said: What the Israelis preempted was Netanyahu's government going down. He is safe again, thanks to the attack. For this, probably not. A no confidence motion failed a couple of days ago so he has six months (iirc) before another can be called. It may well have been designed to fail so he has some time in case things don't go his way wrt Iran immediately. This is just the natural conclusion of continually telling a sociopathic narcissist that he has your backing no matter what. The logical conclusion is and always will be an attempt to reshape the world as he wants it. That's just who sociopathic narcissists are. Quote Trump made some comments that I think were intended to show that it was his decision, that he was in the loop the whole time. I wonder if that's true. Yeah, nah. Though they were clearly informed they also effectively warned Iran publicly about the attack by making sure everyone knew they were withdrawing embassy staff. That's not the act of someone endorsing it, arguably it's the act of someone trying to prevent it. "This was always part of the plan" has been Trump's stock response to nearly every diplomatic set back. Edited June 13 by Zoraptor
pmp10 Posted June 13 Posted June 13 6 hours ago, Gorgon said: Trump made some comments that I think were intended to show that it was his decision, that he was in the loop the whole time. I wonder if that's true. That's just US pretending multipolar order isn't real. Their ability to restrain Israel is clearly nil at this point.
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