What's the worst multiclass ?

[Darab Masood]

I mean two classes that have no synergy or anti synergy 

[Okkes]

Priest Barbarian maybe?

 

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, Okkes said:

Priest Barbarian maybe?

 

Nope, I played some. That combo can be pretty cool.

Priest/Berserker for example can remove any enemy for a long time from combat without any hit roll: just get confused from Frenzy and Withdraw an enemy. That little gimmick alone is a pretty powerful thing.

I think it's hard to name a class combo that's universally bad, especially when not defining subclasses. Would be even more helpful to narrow down the role.

For example a Debonaire/Psion tank would be pretty bad. No engagement, debuff when no allies are near, stops focus generation on getting damaged... ew.

But a Debonaire/Psion ranged caster wouldn't be so bad: charm enemies, cast a Disintegrate with 100% crit conversion on them... cool.

I could name my least favorite (vanilla) class combos, but that hasn't something to do with them being particularly bad. For example I don't like Rogue/Priest, but I'm sure there are lots of good arguments why they aren't bad.

With the introduction of subclasses I think any general class combo has something going for it. I haven't encountered even one during my numerous hours that wouldn't be good in one way or another. And even if you try to combine subclasses in weird ways you can often still find a viable approach.

For example: many players believe Berserker/Helwalker must be unplayable because you will kill yourself. It is a challenge obviously, but it can also be very powerful and rewarding. One of my most beloved combos. 

---

Anyways, my pick would be:

Debonaire/Unbroken: taking away the core feature of the Unbroken (engagement/disengagement)

 

Edited February 3 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

You can make anything work to some degree, especially with a full party behind. But based on their main roles/abilities I would say barbarian/ranger. 

[Constentin Lévine]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

You can make anything work to some degree, especially with a full party behind. But based on their main roles/abilities I would say barbarian/ranger. 

A ranger / mage slayer with Frostseeker is very good in practice!

My first character I made was a Beguiler / Priest of Wael and I had the impression to loose the better of each of their subclass parts.

[Kaylon]

9 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

A ranger / mage slayer with Frostseeker is very good in practice!

My first character I made was a Beguiler / Priest of Wael and I had the impression to loose the better of each of their subclass parts.

Like I said, you can make anything work to some extent or find a niche. However, for me, even Spell Disruption isn't enough to justify a build, since there are multiple ways to deal with casters and you don't need a specialist just for that. The idea is a ranger has many core abilities that work only with ranged weapons, while the barbarian only within melee range, thus no good synergy.

[Chaospread]

Nice question.

I agree with Boeroer, Barbarian/Priest is indeed awesome, I played a Priest of Berath / Corpse Eater Death Godlike and it was very funny and powerful.

Ranger / Barbarian can be a choice, but it can perform in some manner, it can count on abilities of each classes. Not a good "merge", but it can be still effective.

Beguiler / Priest of Wael: also here, not a great synergy but I think a Priest can be useful in any combination with other classes.

"Self damaging" subclass could be an answer, so a berserker / blood mage? Can it be supportable?

But maybe we should choose from non-auto-resource-generating class, which are the worst class in the game, so they could made the worst multiclass. And we can also exclude casters maybe...
Thus among a fighter (not tactician), barbarian, rogue, ranger, paladin which is the worst combination?
I think paladins have no such penalties to be taken in consideration, so Boeroer's pick (Debonaire/Unbroken) can be the multiclass with the worst synergy.

But is it the worst? Who knows.
Trying to say something: I think very little people played the game with a combination among Black Jacket/Trickster/Stalker... probably there are more penalties than advantages...

[Okkes]

Ok, you guys are did it, i ll try priest/barbarian. Here we go 50th run...

[Elric Galad]

If we live bad subclass combinations apart (the most hilarious even if probably not that bad being tactician / streetfighter - the guy can't decide if he likes adrenalin), my vote will go to Priest / Druid.

Sure, one can make it work in practice, but could it be better than pure Priest or pure Druid ? You get a tons of spell, but you probably won't have time to spend all your slot. You are versatile, but not that much granted than both classes can deal damages, support and heal.

Priest / Wiz and Druid / Wiz would be candidate too, but I'll argue Wiz is less redundant and has a tons of instantaneous self-buffs to let you profit from all these juicy spell slots.

 

Barbarian / Ranger would work in melee though. Ranger is an okay melee class, and you may be able to abuse Hunter's Claws & Friends on speedy crit Berzeker builds.  

Edited February 3 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

I suspect Psion/Berserker would be a pretty dumb combo, too - at least in the unmodded game - because the Psion would constantly pause focus generation because of Berserker Frenzy's self damage?

Tactician/Streetfighter: also stupid. Tactician doesn't want to get flanked usually (unless Confusion is desired for friend/foe shenanigans) while the Streetfighter's desire is to get flanked. 

Edit: argh, Elric beat me.

PS: made a nice Berserker/Ghost Heart who specialized in delivering killing bows: Barbaric Smash (for free most of times bc. kill) + Marked Prey + Survival of the Fittest + Bloody Slaughter + Evasive Roll was effective and fun. Sometimes mixed in a Takedown Combo, too. 

PPS: @Elric Galad I would argue that Priest/Druid can get Spineof Thicket Green and enchant it to +2 PL to Rejuvenation and +2 PL to Restoration which makes for a pretty cool healer - like Priest of Eothas/Livegiver. +7(!) Power Levels of Rejuvenation while shifted (can even prolong spiritshift with Salvation of Time for longer +5 PL buff) - and afterwards only drop to -1 Power Level bc. of the staff but can continue with +2 PL Restoration spells. Pretty cool imo. And in the late game you might even use all your spell slots often enough. 

 

Edited February 3 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I suspect Psion/Berserker would be a pretty dumb combo, too - at least in the unmodded game - because the Psion would constantly pause focus generation because of Berserker Frenzy's self damage?

Pretty sure self damages don't break Psion regen. I'm not even sure foe DoTs do, or maybe only on initial attack.

[Kaylon]

Priest/druid is great for healing, support and also damage, I don't see any bad synergy here. Same with druid/wizard or priest/wizard - all perfectly viable combos.

Of course you can make a melee ranger/barbarian - the point is you will waste all ranged abilities, thus no synergy. Also having some gimmicky uses doesn't mean it's great or something, when any other choice can be better. Personally I don't see other combos that have to sacrifice so many core abilities in order to "work". If we talk about subclasses then sharpshooter/berserker would be the one with the worst synergy.

A tactician/streetfighter (even if the post wasn't about subclasses) can also work. Shaken and confused can be easily solved with items/food/abilities. The only drawback of being flanked is you can't trigger Brilliant, but it's not such a big deal because fighter/rogue is already a great combo and doesn't require Brilliant to perform well. And Brilliant Tactician can still be triggered while invisible or other situations if you need to replenish resources - not a bad combo at all.

Edited February 4 by Kaylon

[Boeroer]

I still don't understand the take on Barb/Ranger, even when talking about the vanilla classes.

A multiclassed Ranger hasn't that many abilities that are ranged only - but enough good ones that work in melee, too. All active abilities the multiclass ranger gets work in melee, except Evasive Fire.

Together with the passives, the only things that don't make sense for a melee ranger are Evasive Fire (Evasive Roll however does make sense), Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and Shot on the Run. But there are more than enough nice abilities to pick from if you leave those out. You cannot pick them all and have to skip lots of abilities in a multiclass anyway.

The name is "Ranger" all right, but the class is neither particularly bad in melee nor do make a sacrifice if you are not going ranged. Usually my reason to go melee ranger is the easy and early high melee accuracy - and getting an animal companion. 

Barbarian/Ranger isn't bad at all in my experience: very high accuracy synergizes very well with Barbaric Smash (extra crit damage) and Bloody Slaughter (extra crit damage) and if you use that to deliver killing blows with high maneuverability in melee, you also profit from a free Barbaric Smash, Survival of the Fittest, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. It's actually a very nice combination imo.

I even found ranged Barbarian/Ranger not bad (if you don't use reloading weapons maybe) with the same recipe. You lose Carnage and One Stands Alone, but the high shooting speed and targeting bloodied/near death enemies works nicely with the Ranger's ranged stuff, too.

Somebody already mentioned Frostseeker on a Mage Slayer/Ranger. The reaction sounded like that was only a gimmick and has no value besides the spell disruption. But that disruption is an instant on-the-fly bonus on top of an otherwise well performing single-target damage combo, not a one-trick pony imo. You can shut down a caster almost immediately, but you can at the same time do a lot of damage if you pick your targets wisely. 

 

Edited February 4 by Boeroer

[thelee]

On 2/3/2025 at 1:13 PM, Elric Galad said:

Priest / Wiz and Druid / Wiz would be candidate too, but I'll argue Wiz is less redundant and has a tons of instantaneous self-buffs to let you profit from all these juicy spell slots.

as someone who once spent a lot of time on priest and now spends a lot of time with druids i will say that in practice the wiz getting lots of fast self-buffs is in fact pretty handy and does synergize pretty well with various priest or druid strategies. i would put these multiclasses in the "actually pretty great" bucket.

 

i personally cast a vote for druid/paladin. i think paladin/[druid, wizard, priest] are all on the weaker side, but druid in particular. druid has a saving grace in that paladin sworn enemy boosts the damage of many effects, but it leaves behind summons, which make up more of a druid's kit than priest or wizard. flames of devotion leaves behind dots and hazards, which again makes up more of a druid's kit than priest and wizard. you get a lot of ally-boosting stuff, but... you don't want to burn it on summons, and you're making your own ally-boosting stuff weaker by being multiclassed (no pollen patch, no revive, much later spells every where else) so it's of dubious benefit. the one good outcome is probably going all-in on fire damage and firebrand and flames of devotion, but you're honestly probably better off just buying and scribing scrolls of firebrand and using a single class paladin or a better multiclass (devoted fighter? rogue?). it's the one druid multiclass i can't get to work in a satisfying way.

Edited Wednesday at 05:41 PM by thelee

[Boeroer]

25 minutes ago, thelee said:

 i think paladin/[druid, wizard, priest] are all on the weaker side

Huh? Arcane Knight on the weaker side?

I think Paladin/Caster is pretty nice, especially because you can not only combine Sworn Enemy with spells, but also Eternal Devotion's burning lash which gets attached to direct damage spells, too. There are not many things that boost spell damage so that's nice.

In certain cases even Inspired Beacon (+40% dmg) can make sense.

Paladin/Druid not only can use that synergy but also can do very well with Spiritshift. The DR bonuses of the Paladin buffs up the decent armor (with 0 recovery) and FoD stacks with Wildstrike. Goldpact Knight/Shifter for example is very sturdy but does decent melee damage.

And last but not least: combining Nature's Terror with Sacred Immolation before going into melee is pretty good, too. 

Paladin/Priest I can get behind. Not because it's particularly bad - but somehow it seems particularly boring to me.

The longer I think about paladin the more I'm inclined to vote for Paladin/Fighter as worst multiclass for me personally. Very solid actually and a good combo for beginners - but little room for creativity and not very versatile. But maybe somebody can convince me that that's wrong.

Edited Wednesday at 06:05 PM by Boeroer

[thelee]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Huh? Arcane Knight on the weaker side?

I think Paladin/Caster is pretty nice, especially because you can not only combine Sworn Enemy with spells, but also Eternal Devotion's burning lash which gets attached to direct damage spells, too. There are not many things that boost spell damage so that's nice.

In certain cases even Inspired Beacon (+40% dmg) can make sense.

bah i should have excluded wiz, i keep forgetting that it can do deranged things with paladin defenses.

i argue that you're overrating the burning lash on DD spells. keep in mind you are getting opportunity cost to do 10% x damage on DD spells, which is a better multiclass or single class. And generally a lot of caster builds probably are not focusing too much on might, so you can get basically the same effect with a strength inspiration, except to more types of spells (i would much rather pick up barbarian + caster or monk + caster if i wanted to do more outright damage on my spells. or even chanter, priest or have either in party. even assassin for alphastriking would be better.)

same thing with inspired beacon. you have to get very close to enemies, very tight aoe, and the duraiton is very underwhelming (edit: low base and keep in mind in reality you are facing lots of grazes and resolve effects from enemies).

and as i mentioned, in particular for druid, paladin has glaring holes that don't impact priest or wizard as much - eternal devotion doesn't do anything for summons, dots, or hazards. (and sworn enemy doesn't do anything for summons or hazards.) and while inspired beacon does a lot for everything, it really should not be on the same class as a caster who wants to take advantage of it - by the time you finish recovering from using it, you've already burnt through a lot of its duration.

 

[a lot of this from first hand experience from tryign to make various paldin/druid options work and in practice how underwhelming the effects frequently are. several abandoned runs from how uninspiring they were]

 

edit to add:

Quote

Paladin/Druid not only can use that synergy but also can do very well with Spiritshift. The DR bonuses of the Paladin buffs up the decent armor (with 0 recovery) and FoD stacks with Wildstrike. Goldpact Knight/Shifter for example is very sturdy but does decent melee damage.

also one of the things i tried. goldpact is nice early on, but without the ability to scale up your defenses like a wael priest or most wizards, you just burn through your AR bonus too quickly. you can spike your damage a bit, but pretty much any other shifter/martial will do better more consistently. firebrand is OK for the extra fire synergy so you can be efficient with your talents and items, but even then it's hard to shake the unmistakable feeling of "i could just be a rogue multiclass and have better uptime on my damage"

Edited Wednesday at 06:20 PM by thelee

[Constentin Lévine]

Paladin/druid can cast Venombloom with Spell Shaping around himself with the poison imunity from Righteous Soul and Inspired Beacon on top of some engagement / some PL from Spine of Thicket Green. With Courageous or an interrupt immunity, he can be a melee aggro caster, with the help of the party to get some bonuses to deflection. 

Actually find a useless character is not easy, depending of their subclasses but also of the party composition. 

[thelee]

11 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Paladin/druid can cast Venombloom with Spell Shaping around himself with the poison imunity from Righteous Soul and Inspired Beacon on top of some engagement / some PL from Spine of Thicket Green. With Courageous or an interrupt immunity, he can be a melee aggro caster, with the help of the party to get some bonuses to deflection. 

Actually find a useless character is not easy, depending of their subclasses but also of the party composition. 

we're not talking about useless, we're talking about worst, right?

what you just described with righteous soul you can do as a single-class druid even better bc druids get a spell that grants poison immune. you can also use an item that grants poison immune (spider silk robe iirc, though that comes late) or just plain ol' antidotes. and you just burned two zeal on top of that to get 40% bonus damage for like... 3 ticks of damage, which is not a lot, it's not 40% of all venombloom damage (which would be nice), it's 2 zeal to get like a piddling amount of extra damage. i'd rather use the time spent casting inspiring beacon instead on any other damaging spell the druid has. (or on a better multiclass...)

Quote

With Courageous or an interrupt immunity, he can be a melee aggro caster, with the help of the party to get some bonuses to deflection. 

is this actually good about a paladin build? paladins get courageous but it costs 2 zeal. combined with the above you are blowing 4 zeal and so much of your action economy to do some bonus venombloom damage. sounds pretty bad to me. and a multiclass paladin will only have enough zeal to do this twice, and do basically nothing else.

Edited Wednesday at 07:33 PM by thelee

[Constentin Lévine]

I'm agree with that, especially in contrast to SC druid -- and paladin as support / melee defensive character is not really the better way to make a good offensive caster in my opinion ; just tried to find something resounding like a synergy.

[Boeroer]

I do not agree.

Combining Paladin with a Druid makes the Druid a lot more sturdy and way easier to play. To keep yourself alive you don't need to use your precious spells. For a Fury it may even be the only early way to emergency-heal (Taste of the Hunt, Second Wind and items aside).

SC offensive Druid (like all glass cannons) may be more impactful in theory and if you are good with controlling crowds, but they do zero offense as soon as they go down. If players are struggling with such kind of things, this combo is a good pick - because you don't sacrifice a lot of offense while gaining a lot of survivability and potential versatility.

I value it (way) higher than Fighter/Druid. Tactician's Brilliance aside, what would that combo do better?

If the paladin side had no tools to help the Druid's offense (while "only" adding a lot of sturdyness) it would maybe be a lame combo. But the fact that you can easily (and early) add +20% additive damage via Sworn Enemy (and even get that Zeal back) and +15% lash damage means you don't lose much offensive spell impact while gaining massive improvements on the survivability side.

And that doesn't even take added versatility into account.

And I think you guys never really tried a melee Paladin/Druid with combined Nature's Terror + Sacred Immolation (and lots of healing) who walks into enemy groups and casts Inspired Beacon (that's not mandatory, it's just fun and it works). Paladin's defenses + Moonwell + Hands of Light allowing to tank while two pulsing AoEs (plus lash) melt surrounding foes. It is great and fun, especially against mobs.

Also the point about summons is not correct imo. If you wanted to focus on supporting your summons you can use Lay on Hands, Shared Flames, Exalted Endurance (or Ex. Focus). How's that not supporting your summons?

If you'd made all those points against Rogue/Druid or Fighter/Druid I would understand them better. 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:14 AM by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

On 2/4/2025 at 11:06 PM, Boeroer said:

Together with the passives, the only things that don't make sense for a melee ranger are Evasive Fire (Evasive Roll however does make sense), Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and Shot on the Run. But there are more than enough nice abilities to pick from if you leave those out. You cannot pick them all and have to skip lots of abilities in a multiclass anyway.

The name is "Ranger" all right, but the class is neither particularly bad in melee nor do make a sacrifice if you are not going ranged. Usually my reason to go melee ranger is the easy and early high melee accuracy - and getting an animal companion. 

Ranger has nothing to with "ranged", I suppose, etymologically spoken

A part from this, I agree, a Stalker with Hunter's claw and its upgrades can be a great melee character.

Druid/Paladin is not so bad, I agree another time , maybe not great synergy but there are worse combos.

You need to agree on word "worst", does it mean poorest? most boring? less synergy?
Less synergies I think Boeroer catch it: Debonaire/Unbroken.
Boring I bet is Fighter/Paladin.

Poorest you can think about it, but I guess is nor Paladin/Druid neither Barb/Ranger.
About barb/ranger Corpse Eater/Ghost Heart is a bad choice: many resources wasted and no particularly advantages. But it is neither so weak nor boring.

Another bad MC is Bleak Walker / Priest of Berath: the reason is I wanted to do it but it is forbidden cause cruel disposition conflict  

[Kaylon]

On 2/4/2025 at 11:06 PM, Boeroer said:

I still don't understand the take on Barb/Ranger, even when talking about the vanilla classes.

A multiclassed Ranger hasn't that many abilities that are ranged only - but enough good ones that work in melee, too. All active abilities the multiclass ranger gets work in melee, except Evasive Fire.

Together with the passives, the only things that don't make sense for a melee ranger are Evasive Fire (Evasive Roll however does make sense), Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and Shot on the Run. But there are more than enough nice abilities to pick from if you leave those out. You cannot pick them all and have to skip lots of abilities in a multiclass anyway.

The name is "Ranger" all right, but the class is neither particularly bad in melee nor do make a sacrifice if you are not going ranged. Usually my reason to go melee ranger is the easy and early high melee accuracy - and getting an animal companion. 

Barbarian/Ranger isn't bad at all in my experience: very high accuracy synergizes very well with Barbaric Smash (extra crit damage) and Bloody Slaughter (extra crit damage) and if you use that to deliver killing blows with high maneuverability in melee, you also profit from a free Barbaric Smash, Survival of the Fittest, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. It's actually a very nice combination imo.

I even found ranged Barbarian/Ranger not bad (if you don't use reloading weapons maybe) with the same recipe. You lose Carnage and One Stands Alone, but the high shooting speed and targeting bloodied/near death enemies works nicely with the Ranger's ranged stuff, too.

Somebody already mentioned Frostseeker on a Mage Slayer/Ranger. The reaction sounded like that was only a gimmick and has no value besides the spell disruption. But that disruption is an instant on-the-fly bonus on top of an otherwise well performing single-target damage combo, not a one-trick pony imo. You can shut down a caster almost immediately, but you can at the same time do a lot of damage if you pick your targets wisely. 

 

That's the point, sacrificing Marksman, Driving Flight, Gunner and Shot on the Run is more than other class combos have to sacrifice. Also you make it sound like losing access to Carnage, Accurate Carnage, One Stands Alone and Interrupting Blows - some of the specific traits of the barbarian - is not a big deal either. The idea is other combos can put arguably more on the table while sacrificing less. 

Bloody Slaughter is one of the worst passives in both PoE1/Poe2, I wouldn't call it nice. Speed is good, but you can already have Captain's Banquet + Rapid Shot. Also the fact that it can work "well" is beyond the point, you can make even a melee caster work very "well", but that doesn't mean it will be as good as the other options. 

You keep reminding about the particular case of the Mage Slayer. Yes, it can have an interesting interaction with the ranger, but that's a gimmick indeed - first, to be able to crit reliably with Frostseeker you need very high accuracy (which isn't the case here) and secondly there are better ways to disable mages - CC, interrupt or simply kill (and that's the reason the mage slayer doesn't justify his drawbacks and was never a top pick). 

29 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

A part from this, I agree, a Stalker with Hunter's claw and its upgrades can be a great melee character.

Maybe on paper... Hunter's Claw is really useful only against some bosses where you can prepare in advance and, personally, I would never sacrifice Nature's Resolve for a bonus that works only against some enemies. Sure you can keep the same bonus through the entire game, but then it makes little difference compared to someone who doesn't have the buff. Without mentioning you will be under Bonded Grief more often than not. In fact I would even argue that Stalkers work better at range with the pet always near them as a bodyguard who can intercept attackers and also make the ranger sturdier.

38 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

You need to agree on word "worst", does it mean poorest? most boring? less synergy?
Less synergies I think Boeroer catch it: Debonaire/Unbroken.

Fighter/rogue has already great synergy and the fact that you can't engage isn't a big deal - enemies rarely disengage anyway. Sure it's a bad subclass combo, but not the worst for me - it still tanks very well and can also dish lots of damage.

[Chaospread]

There's a bug with which you can stack up to three infinite bonuses with Hunter's Claw and its upgrades. If you don't wanna be worried about bonded grief you can pick Ghost Heart. You can pick Nature's Resolve also or am I missing something? Anyway I think there's other weaker MC than ranger/barb.
I agree fighter/rogue is a strong MC, also Debonaire/Unbroken, I only state it has "counter" synergy (indeed, Boeroer stated that).
Only thing for sure so far: a monk is never a bad choice in MC. Maybe a Shattered Pillar / Black Jacket has little sense, but he performs well the same.

[limaxophobiacq]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I value it (way) higher than Fighter/Druid. Tactician's Brilliance aside, what would that combo do better?

I kinda like Warden (admittedly I just like fighter multiclasses in general). The +15 accuracy and 50% graze -> hit (conquerors stance + tactical barrage) is nice for the spells that need to roll to hit twice for full effect, and you can wear Deltros Cage without completely tanking your recovery. Just buff your int to ~30 and stack storm/electricity PL and you run around CC-ing everything with relentless storm and throw some Autumns Decay for damage.

It's not Fighter/Bloodmage breaking the game with wall of draining + unbending but nowhere close to bad.

Edited Thursday at 11:47 AM by limaxophobiacq

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Bloody Slaughter is one of the worst passives in both PoE1/Poe2, I wouldn't call it nice. Speed is good, but you can already have Captain's Banquet + Rapid Shot. Also the fact that it can work "well" is beyond the point, you can make even a melee caster work very "well", but that doesn't mean it will be as good as the other options. 

I disagree - partly. It's indeed bad in PoE (where it only works against <=10% endurance left) and it doesn't do much in synergy with anything and just overkills.

But in Deadfire you can combine it with Barbaric Smash to get a (significantly) higher chance that your Barbaric Smash does indeed kill a near death target and thus triggers the Rage refund - as well as it will then trigger Blood Thirst (and Bloodlust and other on-kill stuff such as Engoliero's Ghost Blades or whatever) in one go.

That's why I gave the Barbarian/Ranger example with Survival of the Fittest in the first place. You can achieve lots of Barbaric Smash kills with awesome accuracy and very high crit chance if you hunt near-death enemies.

Of course Bloody Slaughter is not universally great for all sorts of Barbarians - but it can def. be useful in Deadfire. 

And why is having more speed not useful? Speed bonuses have linear returns. More speed is always beneficial. I don't quite understand the part about Captain's Banquet and Rapid Shot. 

I also disagree that it's a problem if you cannot pick certain abilities of a class that are popular (Marksman, Driving Flight etc.).

It's not proof for a bad combo if you don't take certain (otherwise nice) abilities. With that argument one could claim that a ranged Shadowdancer must be at a disadvantage because he cannot pick several of the Monk's melee abilities. Which isn't the case. 

Imo it's only important whether the things you can take work well together or not. And a Barbarian can profit from the Ranger's melee capabilities (which is mostly accuracy boosting and animal companion) without gimping himself.

I noticed I haven't mentioned the synergy of Blood Storm+Predator's Sense or Spirit Frenzy (+Body Blows)+Takedown Combo. 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:12 PM by Boeroer