The All Things Political Topic

[Amentep]

On 7/6/2024 at 12:08 PM, BruceVC said:

Yes but again, the Heritage Foundation does  not  define what Trump can and will implement. Project 2025  is  there    blueprint  and most  of these ideas are  far  too extreme for Trump to want to implement

Its different if Trump said  " my presidency is going to be about Project 2025  '' then we should be very concerned. But at the moment there is no need  for  fearmongering 

The two people who head up Project 2025 are former Trump staffers.  Because Project 2025 is divisive, Trump has publicly disavowed knowing anything about it (in the same social media post where he also said he disagreed in large part of it, despite not know anything about it and also wished them well).  But much of the things that it talks about are talking points used by the Trump backers, Trump aligned politicians, Trump supporting media and Trump himself (particularly the deportations/secure border stuff).  So I find it hard to think that Trump wouldn't try to implement much of this if given a chance.

[Bartimaeus]

I was partial to "Christofascists" for a while, but now I'm favoring "NatCs"...

[BruceVC]

16 hours ago, Amentep said:

The two people who head up Project 2025 are former Trump staffers.  Because Project 2025 is divisive, Trump has publicly disavowed knowing anything about it (in the same social media post where he also said he disagreed in large part of it, despite not know anything about it and also wished them well).  But much of the things that it talks about are talking points used by the Trump backers, Trump aligned politicians, Trump supporting media and Trump himself (particularly the deportations/secure border stuff).  So I find it hard to think that Trump wouldn't try to implement much of this if given a chance.

Trump has lots of advisors as Im sure you will remember, he had Bannon as one advisor and he didnt do everything Bannon wanted or suggested and thats always how Trump operates. He surrounds himself with people to get advice but he makes the final decisions based on how he thinks. He is capricious and unpredictable. But things around the border  and illegals  being deported will be implemented because he has stated that many times 

And then if you go through the list from the Heritage Foundation you can see already that Trump wont agree to certain points like the complete ban on abortion, he has already said leave it up to the states. What I am saying is we should be concerned with the Heritage Foundation but it doesnt mean that Trump is going to implement what they say. Lets rather wait and see instead of jumping the gun

 

 

 

[HoonDing]

The leader Amerika deserves.

[Chairchucker]

In a radical act of self care, I decided not to watch the debate unless one or both of the contestants literally died on stage. Apparently that didn't happen so I didn't watch the replay.

Anyway, apparently Biden looked very silly, so of course Americans will do the sensible thing and elect a felonious rapist who packed the courts with conservative supreme court judges who rolled back Roe vs Wade and decided presidents were allowed to commit crimes if they did them 'officially'. I'm sure it's totally safe to assume the guy who said he'd be a dictator but only on day one, who labels any unflattering news story as 'fake news', who called those media outlets 'enemy of the American people', barred them from press conferences and suggested they lose their media license, who said that there were very fine people on both sides when one of the sides contained Nazis and Klan members and a white supremacist who killed someone with their car, who called athletes who protested against police brutality by kneeling 'sons of bitches' and suggested they be fired, suggested the USA accept more refugees from places like Norway or Asia rather than African nations, suggested it was treasonous not to applaud his speeches, used a school shooting as an opportunity to criticise the FBI for investigating himself, said it was great that China had a President for life and that maybe the USA should give that a shot some day, sided with Putin over the leaders of his own intelligence agencies, suggested that several congresswoman who happened to be women of colour, all of whom were American citizens and three of whom were born in the USA, should 'go back to their country', withheld pandemic aid from states with governors who 'weren't grateful enough', suggested that a 75 year old peace activist who was hospitalised after being shoved by police officers 'could be an ANTIFA provocateur', shared a video of a supporter yelling 'white power', said he might not accept the results of an election if he loses, suggested that a police officer accidentally killing someone is similar to a golfer missing a putt, encouraged people to vote twice, refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power if he lost an election, urged a crowd to march towards the capitol, told the crowd of domestic terrorists he'd just encouraged 'We love you. You're very special', tried to have the Vice President overturn the election...

 

Well, I'm sure there's absolutely no downside to having that guy in power again.

[Gorth]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Trump has lots of advisors as Im sure you will remember, he had Bannon as one advisor and he didnt do everything Bannon wanted or suggested and thats always how Trump operates. He surrounds himself with people to get advice but he makes the final decisions based on how he thinks. He is capricious and unpredictable. But things around the border  and illegals  being deported will be implemented because he has stated that many times 

And then if you go through the list from the Heritage Foundation you can see already that Trump wont agree to certain points like the complete ban on abortion, he has already said leave it up to the states. What I am saying is we should be concerned with the Heritage Foundation but it doesnt mean that Trump is going to implement what they say. Lets rather wait and see instead of jumping the gun

 

 

 

This has to be a caricature of some kind...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

11 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I was partial to "Christofascists" for a while, but now I'm favoring "NatCs"...

Well they are loud and proud about being Christian Nationalists so that certainly fits. If anything their objection to Nazi comparisons would be that the Nazis, who pioneered privatization and were admired by arch-bourgeoisie Henry Ford, were not nearly pro-business enough.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

This has to be a caricature of some kind...

This list  has some of the  most  ridiculous things I have ever  heard...  " ban books on Slavery " 

I absolutely reject that, I  demand my reparations and redress  from the slavery inflicted on my Saxon ancestors by the Romans  and the Vikings.  We must never forget the  cruel injustices  of  the past   

 

[Amentep]

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

What I am saying is we should be concerned with the Heritage Foundation but it doesnt mean that Trump is going to implement what they say. Lets rather wait and see instead of jumping the gun

Or - and I know this is a radical idea, but hear me out - we could do everything we can to ensure Trump and Trump aligned politicians don't get elected, so we never have to find out what Trump would *really* implement!

[BruceVC]

30 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Or - and I know this is a radical idea, but hear me out - we could do everything we can to ensure Trump and Trump aligned politicians don't get elected, so we never have to find out what Trump would *really* implement!

Yes that would be ideal but   unfortunately I cant see   Biden winning especially with the  state of his mental  acumen

Its prudent we prepare  ourselves for another 4 years of  Trump  

 

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Yes that would be ideal but   unfortunately I cant see   Biden winning especially with the  state of his mental  acumen

Its prudent we prepare  ourselves for another 4 years of  Trump  

Sure, on the one side Trump is backed by a group that wants to dismantle the Constitution and make the USA a theocracy, but then again Biden's old(er than Trump by 3 years). 

[Lexx]

Media is so biased against Biden it's not even funny anymore. He speaks a wrong word and everyone loses their ****, Trump rambles complete nonsense for half an hour and everyone is ok with it. People are so damn dumb.

Edited July 10 by Lexx

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, Amentep said:

Or - and I know this is a radical idea, but hear me out - we could do everything we can to ensure Trump and Trump aligned politicians don't get elected, so we never have to find out what Trump would *really* implement!

The Left forget they're in a war sometimes. They need to realize the other side losing is a victory.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

To be a radical centrist for once, I firmly believe that both Biden and Trump have dementia and should be retired instead of running for President. There's a sick irony in that the only generation that will be able to retire just won't.

[Amentep]

I don't disagree; I didn't think Biden was a great candidate last cycle. But people wanting him to step aside don't realize how difficult it would be to do that; as I understand it if he stepped aside the new candidate would be starting fundraising anew as they can't legally use Biden's war chest (unless, I think, if the candidate was Kamala who could because shes already on the ticket).

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

41 minutes ago, Amentep said:

I don't disagree; I didn't think Biden was a great candidate last cycle. But people wanting him to step aside don't realize how difficult it would be to do that; as I understand it if he stepped aside the new candidate would be starting fundraising anew as they can't legally use Biden's war chest (unless, I think, if the candidate was Kamala who could because shes already on the ticket).

I think most people are unaware of how campaign finance law works, I certainly am. But I also think that running Biden is going to lose the election to Trump and that people who want Biden out of the race are not wrong to do so, whether from concerns about him being able to beat Trump again or displeasure with Biden over Palestine, regardless of the practically of doing so.

Aside from Bruce and a handful of brainwormed yuros I think most people on this forum recognize that Trump is a horrible fascist who shouldn't be let back into power. But if we're in a position where the Democrats have to win every presidential election from here on out and prevent a super majority of Republicans from getting into congress while also curtailing the unelected council of elders legislating insane **** or else democracy is gone.....then I think we've already lost it. The fact is that Trump isn't going away even if he dies, the Republican party is just going to be like this from here on out. 

[Amentep]

I don't think the dems have to win every election. At some point of rejection of what they currently are will create a realignment or a collapse (where a new party will spawn).

But maybe it is that grim. 

[Azdeus]

14 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I think most people are unaware of how campaign finance law works, I certainly am. But I also think that running Biden is going to lose the election to Trump and that people who want Biden out of the race are not wrong to do so, whether from concerns about him being able to beat Trump again or displeasure with Biden over Palestine, regardless of the practically of doing so.

Aside from Bruce and a handful of brainwormed yuros I think most people on this forum recognize that Trump is a horrible fascist who shouldn't be let back into power. But if we're in a position where the Democrats have to win every presidential election from here on out and prevent a super majority of Republicans from getting into congress while also curtailing the unelected council of elders legislating insane **** or else democracy is gone.....then I think we've already lost it. The fact is that Trump isn't going away even if he dies, the Republican party is just going to be like this from here on out. 

Looking from the outside in, I'd say that you basically need a reset. The blatant corruption of the US political and judicial system is scary to see, and as you say, the Democrats can't afford to lose a single vote or you will basically get a Handmaids tale; The nation-wide reality show.

Edited July 11 by Azdeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Amentep said:

I don't think the dems have to win every election. At some point of rejection of what they currently are will create a realignment or a collapse (where a new party will spawn).

But maybe it is that grim. 

I think the GOP collapse did happen in 2012 and produced Trump, as the system loyal more polite brand of conservatism fell in favor of Trump's more bombastic and pugilisitic reactionary politics became the new order. It isn't favored popularly, but it is embraced enough internally by conservatives (from donors to activists to the base) that this is going to be the way for the time being.

2 hours ago, Azdeus said:

Looking from the outside in, I'd say that you basically need a reset. The blatant corruption of the US political and judicial system is scary to see, and as you say, the Democrats can't afford to lose a single vote or you will basically get a Handmaids tale; The nation-wide reality show.

I don't disagree, the US clearly isn't working. But sadly I don't think it's confined to here, reactionaries seem to be ascendant everywhere. Maybe we can stave them off for now by everyone getting together to stop them, like in France recently, but I'm not sure if that works as a long-term strategy.

[Azdeus]

23 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I think the GOP collapse did happen in 2012 and produced Trump, as the system loyal more polite brand of conservatism fell in favor of Trump's more bombastic and pugilisitic reactionary politics became the new order. It isn't favored popularly, but it is embraced enough internally by conservatives (from donors to activists to the base) that this is going to be the way for the time being.

I don't disagree, the US clearly isn't working. But sadly I don't think it's confined to here, reactionaries seem to be ascendant everywhere. Maybe we can stave them off for now by everyone getting together to stop them, like in France recently, but I'm not sure if that works as a long-term strategy.

In all honesty, I think the collapse basically started with the election of Obama, and some heavy lifting from the financial crisis, the racists started really crawling out of the woodwork and started to embolden the politicians.

 

Sadly, you're quite correct there. And it is only going to continue to get worse as climate change starts to hit harder and harder, with more and more refugees showing up here. Add in that the newer generation are, anecdotally, ****ing retarded and can't consume any news source that isn't in tiktok form it seems. I went by work yesterday for the first time in 3 months and said hello, the two older people there were cordial and we spoke for a while, but the 20 year olds lost interest in about 15 seconds to go back to scrolling tiktok and instagram. The two older people had heard some news, and were relatively well informed, but the kids were flabbergasted about things that happened months ago.

It was a bit funny when one of them were surprised there was still a war in Ukraine, as the Ukrainian refugee working as a cleaner was doing her round... That girl has one hell of a deathglare

Edited July 11 by Azdeus

[Lexx]

1 hour ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I don't disagree, the US clearly isn't working. But sadly I don't think it's confined to here, reactionaries seem to be ascendant everywhere. Maybe we can stave them off for now by everyone getting together to stop them, like in France recently, but I'm not sure if that works as a long-term strategy.

The difference is that, imo, right now it is far worse in the US than anywhere else since there's so many elements effectively working against democracy, while in Europe it's still "just" a few political parties. And as cheesy as it sounds, I think the US is still far more important to be in line. At the end of the day, the US has a ripple effect on other countries. Our people just imitate what you guys are doing. Basically, if the US goes to ****, we will follow.

[Gorth]

2 minutes ago, Lexx said:

The difference is that, imo, right now it is far worse in the US than anywhere else since there's so many elements effectively working against democracy, while in Europe it's still "just" a few political parties. And as cheesy as it sounds, I think the US is still far more important to be in line. At the end of the day, the US has a ripple effect on other countries. Our people just imitate what you guys are doing. Basically, if the US goes to ****, we will follow.

To be honest, I think Europeans managed quite well doing exactly that, long before the US was a factor on the world stage? Europe seems to have some kind of "Phoenix Like" qualities, rebuilding from ashes of previous civilizations, over and over and over. It's Darwinism in action. Shed old cultures and civilizations like dead skin cells and grow new ones.

[BruceVC]

I base my views on politics around the policies of parties and outcomes, I dont subscribe to identity politics or personality politics 

So when someone says " dont vote for Trump because he is a racist or fascist " thats not a very convincing reason for me 

But if that is a point we want to discuss then the evidence around voting choices people of colour make in the USA doesnt support that 

The GOP has steadily seen an increase in the votes from people of colour and this election will be the same 

https://theconversation.com/what-early-2024-polls-are-revealing-about-voters-of-color-and-the-gop-and-its-not-all-about-donald-trump-227534

And there are various reasons for this but end of the day a black or Hispanic person is not going to vote for a party they genuinely thought was " racist" 

So support for Trump\GOP  in this election is much more complex and nuanced than that 

 

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, Lexx said:

Media is so biased against Biden it's not even funny anymore. He speaks a wrong word and everyone loses their ****, Trump rambles complete nonsense for half an hour and everyone is ok with it. People are so damn dumb.

Or you could argue much of the media is now being honest about the concerns and reality of Bidens  mental acumen which was largely ignored or handwaved by the Dems 

This is not about " Biden speaking one wrong word" and several  EU leaders are equally to blame for not insisting on making there experiences with Biden more  public and known

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/foreign-leaders-worry-about-bidens-health-decline-1235053927/

I mentioned this before but the Dems had an opportunity to find a new candidate after the midterms. The Dems overall strategy has backfired on them and this  was because of  overconfidence 

And now  its too late, Biden might still win. The undecided voters could swing it for the Dems 

 

 

[Lexx]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

To be honest, I think Europeans managed quite well doing exactly that, long before the US was a factor on the world stage? Europe seems to have some kind of "Phoenix Like" qualities, rebuilding from ashes of previous civilizations, over and over and over. It's Darwinism in action. Shed old cultures and civilizations like dead skin cells and grow new ones.

Maybe. Only issue is that whenever this happens, a crapton of people die in the process.