Gaza - War does not determine who is right - only who is left

[Gfted1]

Hmm, walkie-talkies operate in a specific frequency range, vice lets say a specific phone number of a pager. I wonder how they could be overloaded to the point of explosion, and how did they target those specific walkie talkies as opposed to taking out everything in that frequency range? They must have infiltrated Hezbollah's walkie-talkie supplier too? 

[Malcador]

Yeah, sounds like they compromised the shipments somehow.  Israeli sure outmatch all their rivals who would exterminate them without our support.

[melkathi]

This analysis was quite good.

https://youtu.be/1bvPqzsp9y0?si=xQszxQEvbhbDkcI7

tl;dw (too long; didn't watch)

You don't need a lot of intelligence to guess who in Lebanon may have ordered a shipment of thousands of pagers. What you do need is a complicit state who holds the shipment at customs long enough for the Mossad to install the explosives on such a scale.

Edited September 18 by melkathi

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Hmm, walkie-talkies operate in a specific frequency range, vice lets say a specific phone number of a pager. I wonder how they could be overloaded to the point of explosion, and how did they target those specific walkie talkies as opposed to taking out everything in that frequency range? They must have infiltrated Hezbollah's walkie-talkie supplier too? 

Thats  some  seriously impressive asymmetric warfare

Never underestimate Mossad  

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, melkathi said:

This analysis was quite good.

https://youtu.be/1bvPqzsp9y0?si=xQszxQEvbhbDkcI7

tl;dw (too long; didn't watch)

You don't need a lot of intelligence to guess who in Lebanon may have ordered a shipment of thousands of pagers. What you do need is a complicit state who holds the shipment at customs long enough for the Mossad to install the explosives on such a scale.

The pagers apparently  came from   Hungary, I doubt Orban would  have knowingly allowed  Israel to alter them.  So  Im  not sure if the state is involved?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13864459/Pictured-British-educated-boss-Hungarian-firm-accused-making-pagers-exploded-wounding-hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-denies-producing-gadgets-insists-just-intermediary.html

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised but Israel is just comically evil at this point. Detonating pagers in grocery stores is like something you'd see a terrorist do in an Indian ripoff of Die Hard.

Edited September 18 by PK htiw klaw eriF

[uuuhhii]

so they found a way to massacre medical personal more efficiently than random carpet missile bombing

 

[melkathi]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The pagers apparently  came from   Hungary, I doubt Orban would  have knowingly allowed  Israel to alter them.  So  Im  not sure if the state is involved?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13864459/Pictured-British-educated-boss-Hungarian-firm-accused-making-pagers-exploded-wounding-hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-denies-producing-gadgets-insists-just-intermediary.html

 

That's why they say it was a state in the middle east.

I think it is more likely they own the company in Hungary.

[melkathi]

7 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised but Israel is just comically evil at this point. Detonating pagers in grocery stores is like something you'd see a terrorist do in an Indian ripoff of Die Hard.

I am convinced they have a team watching movies and checking what villainous act they haven't done yet.

I mean, tying people to the hood of a car was right out of MadMax 2.

[uuuhhii]

3 minutes ago, melkathi said:

I am convinced they have a team watching movies and checking what villainous act they haven't done yet.

I mean, tying people to the hood of a car was right out of MadMax 2.

 

isn't the first kings man movie have head explode sd card

exploding pager seem similar enough

[Elerond]

20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The pagers apparently  came from   Hungary, I doubt Orban would  have knowingly allowed  Israel to alter them.  So  Im  not sure if the state is involved?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13864459/Pictured-British-educated-boss-Hungarian-firm-accused-making-pagers-exploded-wounding-hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-denies-producing-gadgets-insists-just-intermediary.html

 

Company in question (BAC Consulting KFT) is Hungarian, but it is just consulting shell company, that does not have any production facilities, even though it had license from the Taiwanese company to use their brand and design to make pagers. Hungarian officials say that those pagers have not made in Hungary or never been in Hungary.  

Also BAC Constulting's web pages disappeared from the net today. So it looks that plot has been much more complex than intercepting shipment somewhere and putting explosives in the devices. Also plan has been in process multiple months or even over two years considering that BAC Consulting was established in 2022. Also it looks like that company didn't have any employees only its founder is listed as shareholder. Company has reported about half million euro revenue from 2022 and from 2023. Company also claims that it has done jobs for European Commission and UK Department of International Development, but these claims could have not been proven to be truth when journalist have asked about them from the Commission and DoID. Also founder claimed for NBC that her company is only intermediate and does not produce pagers. Founder also says that she has been employed by European Commission on her linked page, but Commissions spokesperson says that this is false, but says that it is possible that she may have worked for Commission through external providers and consultancies (because there isn't usually any list of employees of such companies in Commission's records). There is possibility that BAC Consulting and its founder does not have anything to do with this case, except that it has been used to make it possible for Hezbollah to buy the pagers in first place, meaning that company is used to get production license for the pagers and they have been then produced actually by some other company that didn't want their name anywhere near to those pagers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

56 minutes ago, melkathi said:

I am convinced they have a team watching movies and checking what villainous act they haven't done yet.

I mean, tying people to the hood of a car was right out of MadMax 2.

Well I'm not looking forward to Israel setting off the Third Impact but I guess that's on the menu.

[Gfted1]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Thats  some  seriously impressive asymmetric warfare

Never underestimate Mossad  

 

Its pretty impressive Ill give them that. I hope more information comes out about how they pulled it off because I have several questions:

Does only Hezbollah use that model pager? Are they in widespread use amongst the average citizens?

Who supplied the walkie-talkies? These operate on a specific frequency channel (which is user selectable), how did they get them to explode?

Whats with the exploding solar panels? Coincidence?

[ShadySands]

I hope they didn't watch Moonfall

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Its pretty impressive Ill give them that. I hope more information comes out about how they pulled it off because I have several questions:

Does only Hezbollah use that model pager? Are they in widespread use amongst the average citizens?

Who supplied the walkie-talkies? These operate on a specific frequency channel (which is user selectable), how did they get them to explode?

Whats with the exploding solar panels? Coincidence?

Agreed,  I have  lots of questions around how they pulled  it off  

And I doubt the US  was involved, the  WH  would never agree to this type of strategy 

One  thing thats  guaranteed is how comprised Hezbollah must be around Israeli operatives 

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Does only Hezbollah use that model pager? Are they in widespread use amongst the average citizens?

It was likely a compromised shipment rather than a compromised model per se. Definitely not in widespread usage, most 'normal' people would just use cellphones which are pretty much ubiquitous in Lebanon (1 phone per 1.15 people). Though the most obvious other group using them (apart from drug cartels maybe) would be medical staff. Even if there were collateral damage it's not like Israel would care though. Or if Israel cared Netanyahu wouldn't.

Quote

Who supplied the walkie-talkies? These operate on a specific frequency channel (which is user selectable), how did they get them to explode?

Doesn't need to be more complicated than a remote detonator.  Ultimately the trouble with radios is that they have to send and receive signals; if you have a detonator receiver disguised as a genuine component it's got natural cover.

Quote

Whats with the exploding solar panels? Coincidence?

Israel has targeted pretty much every solar panel in Gaza. If nothing else it's a tacit threat to take out Lebanon's energy grid (such as it is...) and leave Hezbollah in the dark.

It will be... 'interesting' to see how countries react if Israel does target the energy grid given reactions in Ukraine. It was crickets when they hit the power plant at Hodeida the previous time the Houthis hit them.

OK, about as interesting as Israel targeting the water supply, the food supply, medical facilities, educational facilities, civilian buildings, refugee camps, medical staff, aid convoys, UN staff and UN facilities, and their energy grid, plus all the torture and other abuse of prisoners including rape and summary executions, no doubt.

Edited September 18 by Zoraptor

[HoonDing]

So this is why Biden is Bibi's Bitch. He'd just get his hearing aid or pacemaker blown up if he disobeys his master.

[BruceVC]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:23 PM, Zoraptor said:

 

It will be... 'interesting' to see how countries react if Israel does target the energy grid given reactions in Ukraine. It was crickets when they hit the power plant at Hodeida the previous time the Houthis hit them.

 

How many BRICS countries or Russian allies have publicly  criticized Russia for the  years of specifically targeting  Ukraine's energy grid?

Thats the answer to your question. I doubt any of Israel's allies will really question this strategy outside of a possible broad statement 

Thats the world we live in, selective and inconsistent outrage is all about who you like and who you allied with

But no one is consistent with the level of outrage, nothing really interesting or unusual about it when its expected and normalized 

 

 

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Thats the world we live in, selective and inconsistent outrage is all about who you like and who you allied with

But no one is consistent with the level of outrage, nothing really interesting or unusual about it when its expected and normalized

Then it's meaningless to do so.  Don't moan about the inhumanity about attacking energy when your spokesman have said things like "NATO has its finger on the lightswitch in Yugoslavia now and we can turn the power off whenever we need to and whenever we want to,"  (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nato-shuts-off-power-to-serbia-1.185036) . 

Understandable that it's always a case of "you commit war crimes, I have terrible mistakes" but also the same that it becomes galling to listen to.

Edited September 20 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

On 9/20/2024 at 4:00 PM, Malcador said:

Then it's meaningless to do so.  Don't moan about the inhumanity about attacking energy when your spokesman have said things like "NATO has its finger on the lightswitch in Yugoslavia now and we can turn the power off whenever we need to and whenever we want to,"  (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nato-shuts-off-power-to-serbia-1.185036) . 

Understandable that it's always a case of "you commit war crimes, I have terrible mistakes" but also the same that it becomes galling to listen to.

Sorry but Im not  sure  what you saying?

I sure  it  was  @Zoraptor who  clarified  in the Ukraine thread that  an energy grid is a  legitimate target  in  war.  Thats why the Russians target the Ukraine grid 

And  then  the second part  of  my post  is Israel's allies wont really comment  in a  critical way  in the same way Russia's allies   have said nothing about the  deliberate targeting of the Ukrainian energy grid 

So  if  Israel and Hezbollah   go to  war  Im  sure the Lebanese energy grid  will  be targeted because  thats  a  typical target in war ? 

 

 

Edited September 22 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

IDF hit Hezbollah in Beirut. Doesn't really seem Hamas and Hezbollah are this existential threat to Israel.

[Elerond]

Not having outside threat would be existential threat for Netanyahu

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Malcador said:

IDF hit Hezbollah in Beirut. Doesn't really seem Hamas and Hezbollah are this existential threat to Israel.

But thats not why Israel  is targeting  Hezbollah in such an  aggressive way

 

Hezbollah has been firing rockets into  Israel for the last  12  months and the war between  Israel and Hamas  should have nothing to do with Hezbollah but Hezbollah is involved because they Iranian proxies 

And the  result  of Hezbollah constantly firing rockets  into Israel is 60k Israeli citizens  have been evacuated from  northern Israel

 

Obviously  no country would just accept  another country firing rockers into its territory  but its not an existential threat to Israel but what  Hezbollah has been doing is  definitely provocative and not in the best interests  of Lebanon considering the terrible economic and political  state of  the country 

 

The outcome  is going to be the usual heavy handed response   by Israel and sadly  civilians will be  killed  

 

[Malcador]

You need to listen to more Israeli marketing.  Have also had some amusing Hasbara types argue if Hamas and Hezbollah are not defeated, they'll somehow destroy Israel

Maybe they'll carve a piece of Lebanon out after, heh, as per rules based order

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

You need to listen to more Israeli marketing.  Have also had some amusing Hasbara types argue if Hamas and Hezbollah are not defeated, they'll somehow destroy Israel

Maybe they'll carve a piece of Lebanon out after, heh, as per rules based order

Sure  but I  dont listen to  the Netanyahu and the Israeli right-wing rhetoric to justify these   types  of  military campaigns

 

Hezbollah  is  not an existential threat  to Israel but they are  a  military threat in the sense they made  parts  of Israel  unlivable  and they still  firing rockets  into  Israel 

I  can understand the Israeli military response but I question the  strategy  and heavy handedness 

The latest  Israeli bombing was about several buildings being destroyed  to kill  one person.  And I dont think killing individuals is  going to stop Hezbollah anyway

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hezbollah-hamas-latest-mideast-27-september-2024-4dc3676b10be0fe7b41ab6d9cd897014