Overuse of the double-bladed saber

[guns1inger]

The double-bladed lightsaber is a completely overused weapon in KOTOR. After some extensive digging I've discovered that only two Jedi have EVER used this weapon: Darth Maul and Exar Kun. So why is it that I encounter a group of Sith Apprentices on Tatooine and one of these lowly novices is wielding the blade in question? Because it's easy to capitilize on the gimmik and appeal of the double-bladed lightsaber. I know, I know, I'm reading too far into the whole thing right? Nitpicking, right? Wrong. KOTOR is supposed to be based in the Star Wars universe. That means that the rules of said universe apply. So the use of this weapon should be restricted. I mean if you have to use it, it should be limited to use by the prestige classes and not just anyone. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE KOTOR. I've played through it more times than I care to admit, but c'mon!!! This IS supposed to be Star Wars!!!! The practice of just anyone using the double-bladed lightsaber flys in the face of everything being a Jedi or a Sith is supposed to be all about. These aren't toys, they're supposed to be deadly weapons that require great amounts of skill and practice to use, let alone master.

[anari_quun]

Amen to that. I say, if you're gonna have any double bladed sabers, make them exceedingly rare and difficult to master.

[guns1inger]

Exactly! I admit that I'm not crazy about either the double-bladed saber or using two sabers at once, but if you have to do it, then make it an ability that you aspire to obtain, not just something that any padawan can do after two days' training...

[Raven]

gunslinger, though you are new to the boards, i would like to say you make great and useful posts

 

your right about this too, the double blade was too powerful, and almost everyone used it. it was damn annoying!

[Dereth]

You could have it where in order to use the double bladed saber you have to have already mastered the duel weapons feat. You could have it be a unlockable feat or something.

 

Duel weapons 1>Duel weapons 2>Duel weapons 3>Double Bladed weapons 1>Double bladed weapons 2> Double bladed weapons 3

 

Or you could just have it where you have to master the lightsaber feat before you can use them.

[guns1inger]

gunslinger, though you are new to the boards, i would like to say you make great and useful posts 

 

your right about this too, the double blade was too powerful, and almost everyone used it. it was damn annoying!

Hey thanx a lot Raven! Just trying to maybe get some thoughts out there for the Devs and hopefully give them something to think about....

 

Anyway, what do you guys think about the use of two lightsabers at once? I think it should be restricted as well and maybe even more so.... call me old school but nothing beats one jedi one saber.

[sniggy]

yes to both.

 

double bladed sabers were very rare- just like all sabers with two crystals.

 

as to double wielding: i assume that it was very difficult to master that one since there are only few examples of that in the literature as well. the only double wielding example was in episode 2

[alanschu]

I thought Exar Kun used two lightsabers, not a double-bladed one.

 

As for using them.....I'm all for a feat requirement being a bit more strict. Someone suggested master in lightsaber proficiency and I think that that would make sense.

 

Even the dual-wielding feat probably shouldn't make that much of a difference, since a lightsaber would not have any mass aside from the hilt.....a true understanding of how to use the lightsaber would probably be a necessity.

 

If they can make it fit into the game without being overly restrictive, yet still relatively unique, I'm all for it.

 

 

However....if they are going to make it excessively difficult to use these saber styles, then they had better make it worth their while.

 

 

And on a side note....most people I know preferred dual sabers rather than the saberstaff.

[Torias]

since it's set 4000 years before the movies, maybe, just maybe, double bladed light sabres were popular / common back then.

 

and in the 4000 year period that follows, they generally just all started using one sabre.

 

i'm all for "universe integrity" as much as the next guy, but 4000 years is a long time

[Child of Flame]

since it's set 4000 years before the movies, maybe, just maybe, double bladed light sabres were popular / common back then.

 

and in the 4000 year period that follows, they generally just all started using one sabre.

 

i'm all for "universe integrity" as much as the next guy, but 4000 years is a long time

Yes but just thinking it through logically, that the only weight of the weapon is the hilt, that you have not one, but two blades to make sure you don't cut your own ass with....means that it really SHOULD be infinitely harder to wield a Saber Staff effectively than a normal saber. Same thing goes for dual sabers, but to a lesser extent IMHO since they're not on opposite ends of the same hilt.

 

My $0.02 worth,

 

JT

[PSYCHOKILLER]

i really hated using the double-bladed saber, personaly i went for the 2, but i agree in kotor the dark jedi should have had more troulb using the double-bladed sabers and the aprentices on koraban shouldn't have been able to use them at all

[guns1inger]

Just did some more digging on this and found something interesting. (Acoording to StarWars.com and the Star Wars Databank) The double-bladed saber is called a Sith Lightsaber. It is called this because only Sith have EVER used this weapon. I'm not saying that it's impossible that a Jedi/Sith like Revan could have wielded such a weapon, but I seriously doubt everyone did during that time, especially the Jedi.

[Drakron]

The "Sith lightsaber" is two lightsabers hilts fused.

 

A lightstaff on the other hand its not, its a lightsaber with two blade points.

 

Kun lightstaff is not a sith lightsaber, its a lightstaff with some extras (he could shut down a blade size and could control one of the blade lenght) and so far only Maul used a "sith lightsaber", likely because he was a moron that think it was cool to use super glue on a couple of saber hilts to emulate Kun.

[guns1inger]

You're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter if there IS a difference between the Sith saber or a double-bladed one (which I seriously doubt), the point is that there needs to be more restrictions for the usage of the weapon.

[Victus]

The "Sith lightsaber" is two lightsabers hilts fused.

 

A lightstaff on the other hand its not, its a lightsaber with two blade points.

 

Kun lightstaff is not a sith lightsaber, its a lightstaff with some extras (he could shut down a blade size and could control one of the blade lenght) and so far only Maul used a "sith lightsaber", likely because he was a moron that think it was cool to use super glue on a couple of saber hilts to emulate Kun.

I don't see what is wrong with having the ability to ignite one side of the saber.

 

Sith lightsaber > Lightstaff

 

BTW, why are we calling it a staff? It isn't even a staff....

[Drakron]

Artifical restrictions suck.

 

The rules already made lightstaff and dual wield hard to hit anything at low levels without spending the needed feats, there is no reason of why a lv1 character cannot try to use a lightstaff, being able to hit anything with it is a diferent matter.

 

What is your point?

 

That you dont like seeing dual wield enemies or lightstaff enemies ... because that appears to be the case.

[guns1inger]

I agree with that Victus. It's not that I hate the Sith Lightsaber, I just think it should be a prestige weapon and as such, I would love to have the ability to choose between having one side active or both and switch between them on the fly.

[Drakron]

Its not a prestigue weapon, its a weapon.

 

A prestigue blade is a Sith Blade with are more for show that pratical use (but they can be for pratical use), Ragnos scepter was actualy a Sith blade.

 

Also Maul is nothing more that a aprendice so it shows the "Sith Lightsaber" is not prestigue at all if a aprendice can use it and lets not forget Maul was simply a aprendice, the rule-of-two made sure they would only be one Sith Lord and his only aprendice.

 

I was more concerned that every Sith was basic the same with ninor (most cosmetic) diferences, there was no much of "combined arms" tactic in KotOR, they used the same force powers and the same feats.

[Nydas]

I agree that double-bladed and dual lightsabres are overused. Mastering such exotic fighting styles should be a lifetime commitment; requiring large sacrifices in terms of powers and feats.

 

On the other hand, characters who do go down this path should be able to build a double-bladed lightsabre of their own, rather than have to scavenge one off enemies.

[guns1inger]

Its not a prestigue weapon, its a weapon.

 

A prestigue blade is a Sith Blade with are more for show that pratical use (but they can be for pratical use), Ragnos scepter was actualy a Sith blade.

 

Also Maul is nothing more that a aprendice so it shows the "Sith Lightsaber" is not prestigue at all if a aprendice can use it and lets not forget Maul was simply a aprendice, the rule-of-two made sure they would only be one Sith Lord and his only aprendice.

 

I was more concerned that every Sith was basic the same with ninor (most cosmetic) diferences, there was no much of "combined arms" tactic in KotOR, they used the same force powers and the same feats.

If you take the time to read this thread in its entirity, you'll understand that the problem that I have (and a few other people too from the looks of it) with the double-bladed lightsaber is that it makes NO sense in the star wars universe to have a novice using a weapon that is supposed to be extremely hard to wield. This weapon, for the most part, is a gimmik. Still, it has always been described (even in KOTOR) as a weapon that takes a long time and lots of practice to wield effectively. The same can be said for the regular lightsaber, but it applies more so for the dual saber. Therefore, for the sake of immersion, this weapon should be restricted as a prestige weapon.

[Drakron]

Problem its makes no sense to do it after certain levels start to roll in.

 

Having a low level enemy dual wield is a problem because he is no way able to hit anything but around lv6 they are more that capable to do so and there is no reason why not.

 

Lets see, when facing the Sith Governor in Taris we sould be around lv 7-8 so he about lv 10-12 sinces its one vs three, after Dantooine we are what?

 

10th level.

 

Half way of the total levels so why sould the Sith we face have to be "low levels"?

 

They are not, they are lv10 enemies and quite capable of using any style avaible because they high enough in levels.

 

Naturaly if we faced force users at lv1-6 they would not dual wield or use double weapons because they are not efective at that point but that is pretty much a given.

[guns1inger]

Problem its makes no sense to do it after certain levels start to roll in.

 

Having a low level enemy dual wield is a problem because he is no way able to hit anything but around lv6 they are more that capable to do so and there is no reason why not.

 

Lets see, when facing the Sith Governor in Taris we sould be around lv 7-8 so he about lv 10-12 sinces its one vs three, after Dantooine we are what?

 

10th level.

 

Half way of the total levels so why sould the Sith we face have to be "low levels"?

 

They are not, they are lv10 enemies and quite capable of using any style avaible because they high enough in levels.

 

Naturaly if we faced force users at lv1-6 they would not dual wield or use double weapons because they are not efective at that point but that is pretty much a given.

Ok listen carefully and I'll try really really hard to use small words so you can understand. We're talking about KOTOR 2 not the first one, the next one. The one that's still in development (that means they're still making it). There will be more than 20 levels, this much we already know. In fact they are discussing (that means talking about) removing the level cap altogether. (that means that you can raise your level as much as you like) Once you meet the requirements to "graduate" to a prestige class (do stuff so you can be a badass), you should be granted the feat to use this weapon along with one of these prestige classes.(they give it to you along with your badass status).

 

There. I really hope this helps you understand.

[Drakron]

 

In case YOU dont understand you are using SW:KotOR as bases from saying dual wield and staff users are too comon and I simply pointed out under the ruleset that SW:KotOR uses there was no mechanical reason why NOT to have enemies at those levels dual wield or use staff, to make a artifical restriction is and always been bad design.

 

The ruleset on SW:TSL is the same, fact they go "epic" (or not, I hope that does not became part of the game even if the resident Diablows munchkins like the idea its in no way meaning its good) does not mean the rule system is going to change.

 

So here I have the dual wield feat family that I cannot use because someone decided lightstaff and dual wield was "special" because of Maul ...

 

That is your argument, its not based on rules, its not based on the universe (Maul used a staff and Anakin dual wield and NEITHER were anything more that aprencides at that point) , its not based on game balance ... its based on a tiny bit of text on a weapon description that was nothing but a warning saying "dont try to use this without having maxed the dual wield family".

[sniggy]

So here I have the dual wield feat family that I cannot use because someone decided lightstaff and dual wield was "special" because of Maul ...

 

aw, come on, D - look at episode 1 and tell me that it wasn't friggin special...

 

point is that there are some weapons which made some characters in the SW universe unique. double bladed sabers is one example.

[guns1inger]

D---My arguement validates itself. I tire of trying to explain to you why it makes sense. Just accept that it does and chalk it up to one of those things you can't manage to fully understand and hope that one day you might be able to.

 

Now leave the important stuff to the adults and don't interrupt daddy when he's talking.