The All Things Political Topic - Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex

[ComradeYellow]

No need to "cope", at this point it's Stop Everyone Outside of Our Rules At All Costs

Also been strangely following RFK Jr lately despite not endorsing him, he's now running as an Independent, which is tons better than a D and he should get enough % to get into the debates.  I won't vote because I don't care anymore, but I have been advocating for a 3rd party for YEARS now so this is an improvement.

Literally everywhere I go, especially at work, I see 2 camps, the more conservative "Trumpy" side and the liberal SJW minority side and their is definitely lots of toxicity and tension between the two which is unhealthy for a cohesive society, it's really hard for moderates to stand out these days and trying to avoid getting sucked into a specific side, it feels like you're walking on eggshells.

Not that I care, I'd sooner just let The Other Side Of The World win and let the US evolve into humble status, which may curve some of the brooding tension and polarization that is definitely manifesting into violent feelings towards each other, which is kind of a reflection of US aggression abroad.  Reap/sow.

Edited October 10, 2023 by ComradeYellow

[Gromnir]

On 10/9/2023 at 2:59 PM, Bartimaeus said:

Whether they believe genuine problems will be solved, or if it's just stemming the tide of evil, hurting the "right" people, ending 'wokeness' or some other kind of lunacy - it doesn't really matter, not so long as they tie feeling better about their life and the state of the world to their side winning.

am not unsympathetic to the plight o' the working class american. has gotta be soul crushing to need work harder and longer every year to functional get less and less. for far too many americans, there is little job security and even less hope o' a better tomorrow. 

health care is a huge factor 'cause the number one source o' crippling debt in the US is related to health care costs, but health care is a big problem and not easy to fix.

american farms have seeming been in trouble since before Gromnir were born and now we got climate change and regardless o' whether you think the climate change is man-made or natural, a difficult job is getting tougher 'cause natural calamities is happening with more frequency. even w/o the climate change aspects, struggling farmers has been a reality for decades. no easy fixes.

automation increases has happened slower than expected but at the same time former agrarian nations is finally entering the industrial age, and those countries pay their workers a fraction o' what US workers need to make poverty level wages. it is impossible for american producers and employers o' working class americans to compete with foreign labor cost. transitioning working class americans to current and future jobs which might provide money enough to purchase a house and send 2.5 kids to college is requiring creative thinking. no easy fixes.

etc.

the problems ain't simple and the anger from working class whites is understandable. 

trump came along and told working class whites that their fears were not only legit, but he acted as outraged as they were. he told working class whites that the media and the elites were lying to 'em 'bout their problems and that he had simple and obvious solutions which would make their lives better... if he could just get another $5 campaign contribution so he could win the battle with the deep state. working class whites always suspected they were being told lies-- bs receptivity and conspiratorial thinking is most pronounced amongst groups who feel as if they has been getting the fuzzy end o' the lollypop. lack of education (as opposed to lack o' intelligence) is also a typical factor o' those likely to fall prey to bs and conspiracy. 

am doubting most o' the washington gop politicians believe the stoopid trump is selling, but they need the maga base to win national elections and so they engage in performance art to keep the maga base satisfied. 

that said, am thinking it is a bit myopic for libs to write off maga brand working class white anger. the anger is real and legit. the only reason the white working class were such easy targets for trump is 'cause from their pov, nobody were helping them. reality is complicated, but the anger is genuine. am thinking democrats need to get their act together 'cause we has seen that just 'cause the gop embraces the proud boys and david duke white supremacy does not prevent cuban-americans and second generation mexicans from supporting republicans in increasing numbers. 

whatever. 

as for the issue in gaza, the mowing the lawn/grass metaphor were swell as long as it continued to work for israel. obviously there were intelligence failures and now israel is gonna need come up with a new scheme. neither the arabs or israelis has been true interested in peace since the second intifada, so it is difficult to pretend to be surprised by the recent violence save for how unprepared were israel. the hamas attack clear took considerable planning and coordination. maybe not massive amphibious landing kinda coordination, but the hamas attacks didn't come together in days or even weeks. thanks to the cell organization employed by hamas, not a whole lotta people had to know every detail, but numerous people had to know something were happening likely months ahead o' the actual attack. israel not knowing is disappointing 'cause they is considered among the best at sniffing out such info.

regardless, am not seeing any difficulty in being revolted by hamas and simultaneous recognizing israel is part to blame for the current conflagration. given the tribalism surrounding the issue, it appears impossible to find fault with both israel and hamas w/o being labeled as traitorous/naive/immoral/hypocritical/etc. yeah, hamas is a group o' terrorists who has an espoused goal o' eliminating israel by any means necessary. mistreatment o' women, jews, lgbqt, and anybody not aligned with hamas? people on this board support such a group? well, ok then. simultaneous, the situation in gaza, while hardly the genocidal campaign by israel described by a few, represents brutal and uncompromising efforts with no meaningful progress being made towards a peaceful resolution or even bettering the situation o' the multitudes in gaza. israel is active trying to maintain conditions bad enough in gaza so that hamas cannot mount effective terror attacks while at same time making not so bad that US and world outrage lasts much longer than whenever the current mow the grass effort ends. 

 https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

again, we got some sympathy for israel as they fight asymmetrical a terrorist organization which has been voted into power by the arabs living in gaza, a terrorist organization which has already committed war crimes in this most recent conflict. 

am recalling a line from a J. Scalia opinion:

"one could hold up a sign saying, for example, that all "anti catholic bigots" are misbegotten; but not that all "papists" are, for that would insult and provoke violence "on the basis of religion." st. paul has no such authority to license one side of a debate to fight freestyle, while requiring the other to follow marquis of queensbury rules."

am not having difficulty condemning israel if/when they shut off power and water in gaza. we won't hesitate to condemn hamas if/when they purposeful fights from places of worship, hospitals and civilian housing.  am similar not so naive as to expect one side to adhere to marquis of queensbury rules. that said, regardless o' asymmetrical realities o' fighting a terrorist organization, am thinking israel needs be aware that from a practical pov they cannot expect continued US support if they exceed some fuzzy and unspecific threshold o' terrible. hamas is not constrained by limits related to western notions o' fair play and morality. just a fact. 

the whataboutism will be rich. apologists for the russians, serbs and chinese is already whatabouting israel and will continue to do so for howsoever long this particular bruhaha lasts, as if that in anyway diminishes the excesses o' the aforementioned.  so it goes.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

Trump NDAs Scrapped: Hundreds Of 2016 Campaign Staffers Can Now Publicly Criticize Him As Court Finalizes Settlement

At least 422. That’s the number of 2016 campaign staffers who are affected by the settlement, according to the filing.

...
The finalized settlement could open Trump up to more legal liability, given that staffers can now make allegations of workplace misconduct or wrongdoing without fear of violating their NDA. “Anything and everything” workers could sue over “will of necessity contain some information that a Trump Person could find disparaging or a disclosure of confidential information,” attorneys argued in a previous court filing in the case, saying the NDAs “effectively strip employees, contractors, and volunteers of their ability to pursue any of their rights to redress workplace misconduct.”

and

weisselberg's testimony were unexpected halted today. plaintiffs and defense reserve the right to recall the trump co cfo.

sidenote, aileen cannon is slow-walking the mar-a-lago case, and am not certain if she is doing to help trump or 'cause she is incompetent and recognizes her own shortcomings. this is gonna be one o' the more talked about criminal trials o' the century and cannon has virtual no criminal trial experience as a judge. every move she makes will be scrutinized particular following her earlier blunders which were admonished by an appeals court. as such am understanding a bit o' her timidity. 'course every time a discovery issue comes up, it takes cannon weeks to address and then both parties respond resulting in another couple weeks for cannon to make a decision. today cannon is finally holding garcia hearings to determine if lawyers representing multiple defendants in the case have conflicts o' interest which cannot be cured or waived and is no reason this shouldn't o' already happened.

is still plenty o' time, but...

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gromnir]

more drama and a possible explanation for the abrupt interruption o' the weisselberg testimony in trump's civil fraud case we mentioned earlier:

Ex-Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg’s Testimony Abruptly Ended After Forbes Story Accused Him of Perjury

Weisselberg insisted on Tuesday from the witness stand that he “never focused” on calculating the square footage of the former president’s Trump Tower triplex, a three-floor penthouse in his namesake skyscraper.

Two days later, on Thursday, Forbes reported that emails not currently in the attorney general’s possession show otherwise.

...

Forbes senior editor Dan Alexander wrote that his old emails and reporter notes contradict those denials, pointing out in his story that "Weisselberg absolutely thought about Trump’s apartment—and played a key role in trying to convince Forbes over the course of several years that it was worth more than it really was."

"Given the fact that these discussions continued for years, and that Weisselberg took a very detailed approach in reviewing Trump’s assets with Forbes, it defies all logic to think he truly believes what he is now saying in court," Alexander added.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

I split the bulk of the recent Gaza/Hamas/Israel posts to a new thread

Not all posts, but several of the recent ones, not including split subject posts. Just to allow for non Gaza conversations too without getting drowned out

[Gromnir]

freebie protip: if you are gonna commit an extreme public crime, it is best to not use an alias which suggests you view the circumstances as a practical joke.

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

So Florida spent 1.5 million dollars flying Venezuelan refugees from Texas to Martha's Vineyard as part of a political stunt. How do people vote for these clowns? 

[Gromnir]

26 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

 How do people vote for these clowns? 

for the gop base, a political stunt don't need be reasonable or produce results. 'ccording to conservative media, desantis and abbott showed america they owned the libs. desantis and abbott took the fight to dem controlled towns and cities north o' the mason-dixon line. the southern republican governors forced liberal elites to confront the living and breathing faces of illegal immigration... or something. that's a gop win.

it doesn't need to make sense.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Just an interesting local article on the current situation in Haiti and the lead up to it…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-14/the-plot-to-assassinate-haitis-president/102953056

[Gromnir]

am recalling southerners proudly proclaiming they had stopped giving a $#@% about mask recommendations and covid in general long before the rest o' the country.

DeSantis administration settles lawsuit, will disclose COVID data and pay attorneys fees

At the time, a third wave of cases was ballooning in Florida and hospitalizations were rising dramatically, but the Department of Health was changing the way it reported death data to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, giving the appearance of a pandemic in decline, a Miami Herald analysis found.

The agency also had started launching a series of criticisms on Twitter, accusing the CDC of publishing incorrect COVID numbers, but offering little explanation.

In June 2021, the health department discontinued its COVID-19 dashboard and changed to a weekly report.

Lawmaker says DeSantis only settled lawsuit over hiding COVID data because he was ‘caught red-handed’ lying to the court

During a similar contest over the discovery of documents relating to COVID-19 data, the health department indicated to the courts that the records sought by plaintiffs did not exist. However, the appellate court again ruled against the department and ordered the disclosure of the documents.  In March 2023, the documents requested by plaintiffs were produced by the health department.

...

“They were hiding this information from the public,” said FLCGA Director of Public Access Initiatives Michael Barfield in the same on-air appearance. “So taxpayers lost $300,000 and didn’t get the information that they are constitutionally entitled to.”

‘That decision cost lives’: Covid data case further deflates Ron DeSantis’s campaign

The department will pay the plaintiffs’ $152,000 legal bill and resume regular posting of the data that DeSantis’s communications team insisted at the time was no longer necessary because cases had “significantly decreased” and that Florida was “returning to normal”.

In reality, as DeSantis dismissed reporting on the pandemic as “media hysteria”, the Delta variant of the virus was just taking hold, and cases and fatalities spiked, to a record 385 a day in Florida by September 2021. Simultaneously, Florida led the nation in pediatric Covid hospitalizations.

...

tens o' thousands o' floridians died o' covid during the delta surge alone and yet they were being told that there were no need for mask mandates and that florida should remain "open for business." desantis and other southern governors were telling citizens that the coronavirus pandemic were fading away when the opposite were true. unsurprising, a reason southerners and anybody subscribing to alt-right media/news sources were so indifferent to covid were in part 'cause they were being lied to for political reasons. 

HA! Good Fun!

[uuuhhii]

life of civilian are a small price to pay for stubborn tantrum of ruler

[Bartimaeus]

15 hours ago, Gromnir said:

covid stuff

I distinctly remember some Republican politician, though I don't remember whom exactly, fairly early on intoning something to the effect of "if we would just stop testing for covid, there'll be less covid". It was at that exact point that I realized that at least some states were, suffice to say, very likely to have less accurate data than other states.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

I distinctly remember some Republican politician, though I don't remember whom exactly, fairly early on intoning something to the effect of "if we would just stop testing for covid, there'll be less covid". It was at that exact point that I realized that at least some states were, suffice to say, very likely to have less accurate data than than other states.

It wasn't a particular state...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stop-coronavirus-testing-right-now-have-very-few-cases-2020-6

 

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

It wasn't a particular state...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stop-coronavirus-testing-right-now-have-very-few-cases-2020-6

Well, I'm pretty certain that whom I was remembering was not Trump, although boiling him down to just "some Republican politician" that I can't really remember would be pretty funny, unintentional as it was.

[xzar_monty]

Here's something interesting written by Susan Neiman in Left Is Not Woke: ”Few Americans can really imagine any (other conditions). That’s because they are missing what other wealthy countries call rights: health care that pays for the drugs needed to treat diseases, sick leave that covers the duration of an illness, paid vacations and parental leave, higher education and childcare. Americans call those things benefits, granted or denied at the will of their employer – a very different concept from the concept of rights. The absence of social rights affects poorest people most: those who produce and prepare our food, deliver our packages, care for our children and elders. But even two working parents in a moderately well-off family will see their salaries eaten by the costs of education and health care, their time consumed by chauffeuring children in places without public transportation.”

What this reminded me of is that every once in a while I see an American citizen lamenting their sense of hopelessness and helplessness in relation to the policies that his/her country follows. I don't know how common this experience is, of course. But every time I see it, it makes me think that the experience is probably very close to that experienced by citizens of countries like Russia.

[Gfted1]

See! Thats why we need UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH! The fatcats, and VAT, will pay for it all and we will enter an era of unmatched prosperity.  I really like what CA did with their capital gains taxes from the sale of a house, its a good start. 

[xzar_monty]

12 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I really like what CA did with their capital gains taxes from the sale of a house, its a good start. 

I'd really like to be more aware of how and where the US federal government spends its money -- I mean, certainly not on roads, bridges or anyone's well-being, at least to any considerable extent.

One thing that I quite can't get my head around is how a nation apparently hell-bent on maximum profit steadfastly refuses to install measures that would almost certainly greatly increase its profit. But then, I suppose a large part of that is down to the all too human phenomenon of holding on to what has been around for a while, even if it doesn't really work.

[Gfted1]

39 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I'd really like to be more aware of how and where the US federal government spends its money...

Probably in litigating every clown special interest groups.  Want to build a pipe? Sorry, someone died there 1000 years ago. Want to build a rocket? Sorry, the one flipper turtle lives there, and only there. Want to tax fatcats and institute a VAT to better the lives of every citizen? Hell no, we wont pay! You see xzar_monty, were very very stupid here.

[xzar_monty]

18 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

You see xzar_monty, were very very stupid here.

A late professor friend of mine from the University of Iowa used to stress that every stereotype about the US is true, and so is its opposite[*]. I think that's a pretty good way of putting it.

So yes, very very stupid, and also better educated than just about anyone else, if you happen to be in the right circles.

 

[*] Though it has to be said that although Americans tend to love small talk, the converse apparently isn't true: they are not very good at shutting up.

[Gfted1]

45 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

...and also better educated than just about anyone else...

Education, smeducation. We may be ranked #11 in four year degrees (List of countries by tertiary education attainment - Wikipedia)  but that seeming just produces more "educated" failures. We need less sociology degrees and more trade degrees. However were an undisputed #1 in qq-ing and self entitlement. Have you too done almost nothing to better yourself whilst also expecting to purchase your forever home? Were the land of opportunity for you.

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I'd really like to be more aware of how and where the US federal government spends its money -- I mean, certainly not on roads, bridges or anyone's well-being, at least to any considerable extent.

 

'tween 45% and 50% goes to medicare/medicaid and social security. another 16%-18% goes to "income security" programs such as veteran's benefits, food stamps, unemployment and federal retirement. 8ish% is paying interest on loans. ~12% is national defense.  the rest goes to national highways, and fda, and thousands o' other programs so varied it is impossible to list 'em all.

the federal government is inefficient and anecdotal there are stories o' mind boggling stoopid spending practices. unfortunate it has been shown time and again that when government programs is privatized they do not become more efficient save as rare exceptions and typical the opposite happens. 

americans is extreme reluctant to raise taxes. even the tax the rich people balk when they are asked if taxes should be raised so that high income persons is paying 50% or more o' their income on taxes. the thing is, in california, ny and other places that is already the case and most americans just ain't aware.80% (and better than 70% o' democrats) don't want an inheritance increase to represent the highest single tax as is the norm in many other nations. only slight less is people who are opposed to any inheritance tax whatsoever.

so...

bill gates, warren buffet and a host o' other sooper rich also all agree closing the hedge fund loophole is required. kyrsten sinema singlehanded killed the most recent effort to deal with the hedge fund issue. she were green party at one time?

americans, general speaking, got a huge disconnect 'bout taxes and entitlements. is another one o' those situations where the easy solutions... aren't.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 16, 2023 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

@Gfted1 and @Gromnir, just out of interest: what is your take/opinion on the (to me) apparent fact that an awful lot of Americans seem to be very dismissive / distrustful of the White House, the government and all the rest of it while at the same time being very strongly of the opinion that the US is the best? Isn't there a bit of a contradiction in here? Or is it just that the original US constitution was brilliant (which, admittedly, it sort of is) but the current rulers have little or nothing to do with that political acumen, or something?

I am genuinely curious here. It's an attitude of some contradiction, in my view, and I come across it quite often.

Btw, Gfted1, yeah: the #1 annoying thing that tends to characterize American tourists at least is the sense of entitlement. In the same way that Brits are violently drunk, and so on, i.e. it's a stereotype that doesn't hold to that much scrutiny but isn't actually totally false, either...

[Gfted1]

19 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

...what is your take/opinion on the (to me) apparent fact that an awful lot of Americans seem to be very dismissive / distrustful of the White House...

I dont get that vibe, but that doesnt mean youre wrong. Imo, besides the lunatic fringe, most US citizens are Republican or Democrat because their parents before them were. Then it becomes a matter of whos party is in power. If its "your" party, they are geniuses. If it isnt "your" party, they are a bunch of bums. Its just like with the sky wizard, monkey see...monkey do.

[xzar_monty]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

I dont get that vibe

Yeah, obviously the vibe one gets is dependent on one's environment.

But to take one concrete example: there's this financial advisor called Dave Ramsey who isn't all nonsense although I wouldn't exactly rely on him, either. Anyway, he's one of those guys who insist that everybody in the government and the White House are fools no matter what their party, but America is still the undisputed #1. And that seems like something of a contradiction to me.

[Gfted1]

Google tells me that he is a radio personality and author of a book on finances but Ive never heard of him before now. Unfortunately, I dont think many Americans will ever get past step #2: Dave Ramsey's 7 Baby Steps - Ramsey (ramseysolutions.com) Ive already been doing step #4 for decades so I guess I can feel pretty good about that. Hilariously, my various retirement investments make more per quarter than I do working 40H a week for those three months!