Recommended DLC order for eothas + woedica challenge ?

[Shai Hulud]

I've been working on a couple builds for an ultimate run, haven't done it yet but have all the trials on except iron, solo potd. In one of my previous attempts I didn't plan well enough and ran out of time doing SSS.

I just finished the main story through Honor Among Thieves and am on Fort Deadlight, debating whether to go to Dunnage with Aeldys or not. If I don't go with I'll swing by Dunnage before/after SSS to get the Engolio do Espirs and go it alone to Ukaizo. I shouldn't need to go back to Neketaka. Feel like my route so far has been pretty efficient. I have something like 30 days left I think...

Already killed Belranga after Nemnok and just before Ashen Maw so I wouldn't have to sail back. What remains is all the DLC content, Huani o Whe, Dorodugan, and Sigilmaster Alranic. I don't expect any trouble defeating the megabosses but am less sure about the DLC content, have not completed any of them and have no idea how long they take, although I've played parts of SSS and FS. 

From a time perspective it seems like I should go to Deadlight with Aeldys, do the SSS stuff, head south to Huani o Whe, then far southwest to Dorodugan, then east to BW then FS (or vice versa, maybe makes a day of difference?), then to Sigilmaster Alranic, then to Ukaizo. 

But I've watched some ultimate runs, last one I watched the guy went (from deadlight) to FS, BW, SSS, then killed the remaining megabosses (had already done Belranga). Seems like you waste about a week that way, but maybe there is some meta reason for that of which I'm unaware, or storywise. IDK, I just don't want to run out of time again, advice appreciated.

Dunno if relevant but my character is a heirophant. In a simultaneous run I have a spiritualist.

[abot]

I'm not sure about other paths as I've always used the survivor path as the easier one in SSS, but you will be forced to rest and have your buffs gone there. So probably a planning decision is when you want to have to gain buffs back
Also one important thing  is that most time is spent not traveling/fighting but walking/running in cities. So being able to move/steal things almost without sneaking thanks to the assassins boots invisibility cheese is also a huge time saver that could make your run much more relaxing

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

have not completed any of them and have no idea how long they take, although I've played parts of SSS and FS. 

BoW can be pretty short (in regards to eothas challenge), but because you can skip most of the content once you enter the vytmádh by just heading straight to the boss fight.

i think your route makes sense. there's no real reason to go in any particular order outside of pathing so whatever path looks short to you sounds good, b.c. i don't think there's any relevant gear for most ultimate runs. i ended up doing BoW->SSS->FS iirc simply because that's the order i'm used to, though it probably was a bit inefficient.

Edited December 15, 2022 by thelee

[Waski]

I did smth like this lv16->Conceelhaut->Ashen->(auto travel)Neketaka(water dragon,big grub, 1 month 6 days)->Dunnage(hanging Furrante)->fort Deadlight(Scordeo)->Hauani->Dunnage(Engolio do Espirs)->SSS->Nemnok->Belranga->Dorudugan->BoW->FS->Auranic->Ukaizo, took me 2 months 15 days to reach Ofecchia Channel (55 days) so it took me 29 days to do all content after Neketaka, SSS was 4 days, BoW bit more than 1, FS bit less than 4

[Shai Hulud]

Thanks for all the responses. I guess my path hasn't been as efficient as I thought. Or I spent too much time pickpocketing people and whatnot. I'm at 2 months 10 days at Deadlight. There were also some bounties and minor quests / item pickups I probably should have skipped. I have way more XP than I need, hit level 20 a long time ago. 

My path so far has been

Maje => Deadlight => Neketaka 1 (do as many quests as I can without fighting)

Neketaka 1 => Bekarna (I was going to just snatch the Shroud and come back but went ahead and killed Concelhaut at L13. Was pretty sketchy though, I nearly died and it took a LONG time as I kept getting terrified (should have waited until I found Thaenic for Village Fool hat) => Ikorno / Vessali / Onadere =>  Tikawara (ran into Thaenic on way, grabbed Nature's Resolve buff on island) => Poko Kahara => Forgotten Catacombs (should have skipped but really wanted that armor) => Neketaka 2 (mostly to get A Matter of Import but also turn in some stuff)

Neketaka 2 => Hasongo => Beina => Dunnage (hit L19 @ Dunnage) => Crookspur => Sayuka (did both Overgrowth and Hunting Season, should have skipped latter, L20 by now IIRC) => Cave of Threshing, also happened to be on the island on the 16th so I did the Sanguine Harvest event several times) => Outcast's Respite (maybe should have skipped but wanted the +2 to all stats, just drank Luminous Adra potions if I picked up enough injuries, went ahead and killed everything here though I could have snuck to the pool) => Junvik => Ori O Koiki (just for Kuaru's prize ring, probably should have skipped) => Belranga => Ashen Maw => Neketaka 3

Neketaka 3 (turn in quests, kill Cave Grub, kill dragon, assassinate prince) => Dunnage 2 => Deadlight 2

And that brings me to where I am now. In retrospect there is a lot of stuff I should have skipped, like I didn't even get XP for turning in most of the bounties and I didn't need money by that point. The Hunting Season quest cost nearly a day.  And I think fighting Concelhaut that early has a high probability of ending my run. In the future I think I'd do similar order except do Tikawara first, get the Boots of Cheese, and wait to get SOP and kill Concelhaut after Sayuka. Or...steal the SOP, come back to kill Concelhaut during final circuit. Though that way bugs me because of the long walk to the observatory. 

What happens if I skip Crookspur? Can I still get Scordeo's Edge later? Don't care about Blackblade hood. Not using any of the Crookspur items, though I'd probably use Patinated Plate if I didn't have Reckless Brigandine. 

---------------

So SSS has a forced rest? Oh that sucks! My Hylea's Bounty food has long since spoiled, but worse than that is losing the Dawnstar's Blessing, Nature's Resolve boon, and the +2 all stats from Outcast's Respite. 

What's the next best food for a hierophant? Melee focused. Captain's Banquet looks good for immunities and action speed, don't really care about spell damage.  I guess the Hot Razor Skewers are good for the bonus penetration. But my CON and RES are really low so I'll be very squishy without Hylea, plus my weapon penetration is already pretty good with Hammering Thoughts and proc Tenacious from Resounding Call. Forgetful Night or Glazed Chops would add to survivability but not nearly as well as Hylea. And I've dumped most of my skill points into History so without the +2 I'm going to fail a lot of checks. Oh well, still have lots of Luminous Adra dust. 

My stats are 11 / 7 / 18 / 18 / 18 / 3. Fortitude is pretty low, took Bear's Fortitude but it is still way lower than others. Also low deflection but I don't get hit that much with Borrowed Instinct and various blood mage buffs. 

@Waski if I can do FS, BW, and SSS in similar times that you did then I'd have plenty of time to do SSS last so I don't lose the buffs. Hmmm. Though going that out of the way bugs me, I like your path.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Shai Hulud
Weapon correction (Death and Taxes => Resounding Call)

[Shai Hulud]

Went to do SSS first. Don't have Trial of Iron on so I tried Seeker path first, it forces a rest. Reloaded and tried Slayer path, which does NOT force a rest, assuming you can pass the various checks (survival and athletics mostly). 

The Seeker rapier would have fit better with my character but the axe looks good too, if I dual wield with Resounding Call I can get Energized any time I break a destructible, which is pretty nice even if I can't use the soulbound crap. If I saved SSS for last then having the Seeker rapier wouldn't matter much anyway I suppose. 

Better to keep my Hylea's Bounty, Nature's Resolve, Alchemic Wits/Brawn/Guile, Dawnstar's Blessing, and Rikihu/Amira's Blessings.

---

EDIT

Just for fun I consoled in Seeker's Fang and leveled it up and holy crap is that weapon broken on a soul blade! It does current focus damage over 16 seconds with ticks every 3. And with soul blade and SOF shenanigans you can pump your focus to over 10000 pretty easily, so one stab (if it crits) can do about 3000 damage. It's basically the damage of a soul annihilation stretched into ticks over 16 seconds, and it doesn't remove focus. Unfortunately the damage ticks don't add focus so you're stuck with whatever your starting focus is plus the measly damage of the rapier itself for focus generation, but still...pretty absurd, especially if combined with Blade Cascade and various action speed buffs, where you can attack 5 times per second. The damage doesn't stack, it just resets the Spider's Patience DPS so you'd want to set the AI to attack highest health enemies then just run off and wait for them to die.

You could dual wield this with Mohora Tanga's Red Flag Flying and people would just explode (or your computer would).

Might be worth taking the hit on the rest, though gameplay is pretty reductive with this thing. Plus I've enjoyed using summoned weapons and not worrying about weapons breaking every fight. But the weapon turns soul blade / anything into god-tier.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Shai Hulud

[dgray62]

I think that dual wielding SF and MT would be overkill in most cases, since MT would almost certainly kill most foes long before SF's DoT would. But the combo might be ideal with megabosses, since you hopefully wouldn't crit often enough for MT to crash the game, but would get enough in to defeat them relatively quickly.

[Shai Hulud]

11 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

I think that dual wielding SF and MT would be overkill in most cases, since MT would almost certainly kill most foes long before SF's DoT would. But the combo might be ideal with megabosses, since you hopefully wouldn't crit often enough for MT to crash the game, but would get enough in to defeat them relatively quickly.

Well, yeah, definitely overkill to even use this weapon in this manner, and in the past when I've tried using Mahora Tanga with other on-crit weapons it crashed the game. I was just wondering about it...

But...3/16 of the SF DOT is dealt immediately, and added to the initial damage from the rapier, so you kill most regular enemies in one hit if your focus is high, nearly all within 3 seconds. Also the Swift Flurry 1/encounter cone can gib multiple enemies at once, it is pretty funny. I just tested it in the arena and it exploded the guards and Naga.

The damage isn't accurately reflected in the log (the DOT doesn't even show, just appears above enemy heads per tick) so it is hard to be sure but it looked like Swift Flurry procced it multiple times. Was wondering if RFF would do that or if it just resets the timer. If it resets the timer but procs the first tick that would still do a ton of damage.

[Not So Clever Hound]

6 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

if I dual wield with Resounding Call I can get Energized any time I break a destructible

If I remember correctly, Slayer's Claw upgrades the inspiration every time you swap your weapon set back and forth. So you only need Slayer's Claw to get Energized.

EDIT: sorry I meant using Lover's Embrace + Slayer's Claw, you still need at least a Strong inspiration to get Energized..

Edited December 16, 2022 by Not So Clever Hound

[dgray62]

7 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Well, yeah, definitely overkill to even use this weapon in this manner, and in the past when I've tried using Mahora Tanga with other on-crit weapons it crashed the game. I was just wondering about it...

But...3/16 of the SF DOT is dealt immediately, and added to the initial damage from the rapier, so you kill most regular enemies in one hit if your focus is high, nearly all within 3 seconds. Also the Swift Flurry 1/encounter cone can gib multiple enemies at once, it is pretty funny. I just tested it in the arena and it exploded the guards and Naga.

The damage isn't accurately reflected in the log (the DOT doesn't even show, just appears above enemy heads per tick) so it is hard to be sure but it looked like Swift Flurry procced it multiple times. Was wondering if RFF would do that or if it just resets the timer. If it resets the timer but procs the first tick that would still do a ton of damage.

Yes, SF is a really super OP weapon in the hand of a soul blade, and it has the added benefit of not crashing the game. MT crashes my game too, but I imagine it wouldn't when battling mega bosses, since their fortitude is high enough to prevent the crashes.

[Shai Hulud]

8 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

If I remember correctly, Slayer's Claw upgrades the inspiration every time you swap your weapon set back and forth. So you only need Slayer's Claw to get Energized.

EDIT: sorry I meant using Lover's Embrace + Slayer's Claw, you still need at least a Strong inspiration to get Energized..

Hmm yeah Blood Mage / Soul Blade doesn't have any good sources of strength as far as I know unfortunately, leaving items. I mean one can cast Citzal's Martial Power or just cast Wild Leech until you get strength but neither is a great idea just to proc strength, and I don't think these effects carry over out of combat (maybe wild leech, I've never used it). I could steal Holy Power from a priest but I'm pretty sure that ends on combat's end so you can't upgrade it.

So items...I like Resounding Call because there's lots of destructibles in most areas (plus it grants Tenacious). Amra is also a really easy source of strength, 25% chance on kill to proc Frenzy without the deflection penalty, I just kill Ishiza until I get it. I prefer that to True Love's Kiss though I guess True Love's Kiss is even easier to proc.

Might be irrelevant for me though, does Citzal's Spirit Lance interrupt on crit? It sure looks like it but it isn't mentioned in the description. I'm using that for 90% of encounters.

Kind of unrelated question to you or anyone, how does the "immune to might affliction" on Effigy's Husk (for example) work? Like say I have Energized up and am wearing Effigy's Husk, and I get hit with Stun. Does that cancel the might inspiration? I assumed initially it would not, but wearing "immune to might" or "immune to resolve" items I've still lost the inspirations...so either they're implemented incorrectly or the way it works is hit with stun => lose energized => hit with stun again => immune

Like it doesn't proc the immune until you've lost the inspiration...I think that's what actually happens but not sure. Makes keeping up Courageous or Energized more difficult (not that a soul blade needs Courageous). 

EDIT: Realized I think you're saying Slayer's Claw upgrades might inspirations IN COMBAT on weapon switch? If so that's pretty great. Can just steal Holy Power and get it easily. When I read that the first time I thought you meant out of combat weapon switch. 

Would be especially powerful effect on a Black Jacket...can switch weapons instantly (can even script it), so any source of might gets bumped up to energized. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Shai Hulud

[dgray62]

You can get energized with no cheese and just two items, Lover's Embrace and the Slayer's Claw. If you upgrade the former, there's a 33% chance to proc frenzy every time you crit. Since crits from spells can proc it as well as melee attacks, it's easy for casters to do this when wielding it. Once you're frenzied, if you have slayer's claw in another weapon slot, just switch weapons twice to upgrade the strong to tenacious and then energized.

[Shai Hulud]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:51 PM, dgray62 said:

You can get energized with no cheese and just two items, Lover's Embrace and the Slayer's Claw. If you upgrade the former, there's a 33% chance to proc frenzy every time you crit. Since crits from spells can proc it as well as melee attacks, it's easy for casters to do this when wielding it. Once you're frenzied, if you have slayer's claw in another weapon slot, just switch weapons twice to upgrade the strong to tenacious and then energized.

That's good info, but I like cheese. It's delicious! Also switching weapons twice without cheese (unless you're a black jacket, or at the least have quick switch), takes a while, doesn't it? Also does Lover's Embrace consider monsters male/female? Never used it tbh. 

Thank God for Scordeo. Seriously though has anyone done the ultimate without cheese? I think I could maybe solo POTD without, possibly even do some of the megabosses, but those pesky God challenges (Woedica, Eothas, VELA!) make that pretty much impossible, no? Granted I haven't watched all the ultimate runs but I've watched portions of *nearly* all of them and as far as I can tell they all use some combination of SOF, SOTP, brilliant tactician proccing when it shouldn't, potions of final stand, salvation of time, etc.

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Also switching weapons twice without cheese (unless you're a black jacket, or at the least have quick switch), takes a while, doesn't it? 

No, switching is always instant. You can switch back and forth as quickly as you can smash a (mouse)button. You can even switch multiple times when the game is paused. All the effects that get triggered by switching to a weapon - see Slayer's Claw or stuff like Lethandria's Devotion or Outworn Buckler - happen immediately every time when you switch to that weapon. So you can upgrade from strong to energized on milliseconds or heal 20 points by switching to Lethandria's Devotion 20 times real fast. You can even use AI to switch multiple times per second when something happens. For example make a script that, as soon as your health is <50% lets you switch to Lethandria's Devotion as fast as possible until your health is higher than 75% again. The char will stutter from all the switching animations but otherwise be fine. 

So switching is instant and unlimited at all times, even during pause. It only adds a recovery penalty(!). That penalty doesn't stack with itself though. 10 times switching in under a second doesn't mean you get 10 times the recovery penalty. That penalty will just get reset to the fixed "full recovery penalty" every time you switch. After switching 10 times during pause you will suffer the same recovery penalty as if you only switched 1 time.

Black Jacket and Quick Switch only lower that recovery penalty (combined they lower it to zero). 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

 Also does Lover's Embrace consider monsters male/female? Never used it tbh. 

 

Yes, it does. Rotghasts for example are male.

 

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

 Seriously though has anyone done the ultimate without cheese?

Depends on the definition of cheese, but I say "no". 

[dgray62]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, it does. Rotghasts for example are male.

 

The game seems to consider far more foes to be male than female, so you want the upgrade that procs with males.

[Waski]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

The game seems to consider far more foes to be male than female, so you want the upgrade that procs with males.

[Waski]

(again forum messes the quotes) Vela is female, You can proc frenzy on her outside of combat and then SoF it

[Shai Hulud]

16 hours ago, Boeroer said:

No, switching is always instant. You can switch back and forth as quickly as you can smash a (mouse)button. You can even switch multiple times when the game is paused. All the effects that get triggered by switching to a weapon - see Slayer's Claw or stuff like Lethandria's Devotion or Outworn Buckler - happen immediately every time when you switch to that weapon. So you can upgrade from strong to energized on milliseconds or heal 20 points by switching to Lethandria's Devotion 20 times real fast. You can even use AI to switch multiple times per second when something happens. For example make a script that, as soon as your health is <50% lets you switch to Lethandria's Devotion as fast as possible until your health is higher than 75% again. The char will stutter from all the switching animations but otherwise be fine. 

So switching is instant and unlimited at all times, even during pause. It only adds a recovery penalty(!). That penalty doesn't stack with itself though. 10 times switching in under a second doesn't mean you get 10 times the recovery penalty. That penalty will just get reset to the fixed "full recovery penalty" every time you switch. After switching 10 times during pause you will suffer the same recovery penalty as if you only switched 1 time.

Black Jacket and Quick Switch only lower that recovery penalty (combined they lower it to zero). 

I meant the recovery penalty. I just tested with my L2 save where I had no buffs fighting a boar. One weapon set is club and torch. Other is pike. Takes about 4 seconds in slow mode to go from club attack to torch attack or vice versa. Takes about 6 seconds to do pike attacks. If I switch weapons though it takes about 5 seconds. Yeah they don't stack but later on I can greatly reduce recovery time or even remove it with Blade Cascade, except it doesn't apply to weapon switches. Weapon switches still take 5 seconds (I'm guessing that's 2.5 seconds real time) even if my weapon attack takes .2 seconds real time with no recovery.

I didn't know effects stacked infinitely though...

Assume I can't pause. I did try to write a macro to switch weapons really fast to test out the Lethandria's Devotion thing. Very inconsistent, often ends on the wrong weapon. So next I tried an AI script, late game. Simple on hurt, do weapon set 2 then weapon set 1. Amusingly that does actually work. Heals 2 health at a time (with my healing modifiers) and it is pretty fast, but takes about 10 seconds to heal 100 damage assuming I'm not taking more damage (slow mode). Interestingly, it takes about the same time on normal speed and fast mode. I guess the engine is getting hung up on the weapon switch animation and can only do it so fast. Cool, but, doesn't seem very useful since I can just steal restore (and did steal restore), which is a .2 second cast and heals about 60 per cast. 

Outworn Buckler's Perseverance is more interesting. Could script that to do the same whenever I'm afflicted. Hardly ever get afflicted though, and as a blood mage I can end every affliction but strength and resolve afflictions with .2 second casts. For resolve I have psychovampiric shield though, also a .2 second cast. Testing this with Sigilmaster Auranic, I got paralyzed with fetid caress for like 22 seconds, strangely the AI would not switch weapons even though I could do it manually. I can even go to the inventory screen and just manually switch weapons until paralyze is away, but that really breaks game flow...

Where Outworn Buckler's Timeless would be *really* useful is non-affliction hostile effects, particularly when I get hit with arcane dampener, which is the only real threat anyway. Unfortunately the scripting engine is too stupid for me to tell it to do things based on being hit with specific effects, so I have to manually go to the inventory screen (which does pause the game) and either change weapons there or switch AI instructions. My will defense is super high so his arcane dampeners are mostly missing though. Gotta get one to proc...

Finally got one, and yes it works. Awesome. But I need a better way to script this. Maybe...if I lose all my inspirations at once? Nope, that didn't work. For some reason Energized doesn't have a time duration so that only gets removed by affliction. I'm thinking that's because I procced it with Slayer's Claw, and that made it permanent somehow?

After about an hour of testing, I managed to get a script block that works to kill arcane dampener without activating at other times (like arcane cleanse, or out of combat, or early in the game when I don't have any inspirations)

Self - Has Inspiration - Con - NOT

Self - Has Inspiration - Dex - NOT

Self - Has Inspiration - Int - NOT

Self - Has Inspiration - Perception - NOT

Self - Has Inspiration - Resolve - NOT

Self - Has Summoned Weapon - NOT

Self - At Least 90 Focus

Weapon Set 2, Weapon Set 1, Cooldown 0

This mostly works but it can get messed up by Arcane Cleanse if I've already lost brilliant. My script is 30 blocks long but still really, really simple compared to what you could do in the old Infinity Engine games. Wrote a script for BG2 that was 3000+ lines long but could get me through every battle on insane with all the increased difficulty mods. All I had to do was click to move the character. Yeah that's what happens when you play a game 100 times. 

POE script is so so limited. I can't even check how much armor I have, wizard spells, focus if focus > 90, can't prioritze enemy targets beyond some very simple conditions, can't skip blocks, can't tell my character not to target invulnerable obelisks, can't even use an OR in blocks. Like for Infuse with Vital Essence I have to make two blocks, can't tell it to cast if I have no con or int inspiration. I can't even script anything around Vela. Tried getting it to cast withdraw on an ally but she isn't considered an ally apparently, and I'm limited to ally/enemy/self/animalcompanion. Also tried animalcompanion, doesn't work. Tried a lot of things, pretty sure she is unscriptable.

Guess I shouldn't complain, the scripting for POE is better than most games. But all this desire to make everything nice graphical logic blocks is really limiting. There's probably a way to access the underlying scripting language but I bet it requires modding...

Sorry, got a bit rambly there. 

Anyway, finished the game last night and this build should easily get through an ultimate run. Don't think I had to reload any in combat. It's basically invulnerable and shreds bosses and mooks in seconds, but I've accidentally killed Vela a few times. She sometimes hangs directly underneath the character. So like when I was trying to proc Deltro's Cage Helm and cast chain lightning on myself, that was one time I killed her. Another problem now is I want to try a different build. Loremaster seems fun. I wonder if blood mage / skald gets phrases from Citzal's Spirit Lance...if so could totally spam the charm/paralyze/stun cones.

[dgray62]

You can get phrases when critting with AOE weapons like the lance and WotEP. Having multiple enemies in then circle or cone increases your chances of critting and hence getting a phrase back. But you can only get one phrase back per attack. As for loremaster, you might consider going with a vanilla wizard/skald so that you could do all the crazy empowerment shenanigans with Least Unstable Coil, Sasha's Singing Scimitar (SSS), and the Weyc items. You can also empower yourself to get back spells, and then in the next battle empower Her Revenge with SSS to get back all of your empowerment points. @Not So Clever Houndhas written a lot about this and other Loremaster exploits in this forum.

[masterty66]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:05 AM, Boeroer said:

No, switching is always instant. You can switch back and forth as quickly as you can smash a (mouse)button. You can even switch multiple times when the game is paused. All the effects that get triggered by switching to a weapon - see Slayer's Claw or stuff like Lethandria's Devotion or Outworn Buckler - happen immediately every time when you switch to that weapon. So you can upgrade from strong to energized on milliseconds or heal 20 points by switching to Lethandria's Devotion 20 times real fast. You can even use AI to switch multiple times per second when something happens. For example make a script that, as soon as your health is <50% lets you switch to Lethandria's Devotion as fast as possible until your health is higher than 75% again. The char will stutter from all the switching animations but otherwise be fine. 

So switching is instant and unlimited at all times, even during pause. It only adds a recovery penalty(!). That penalty doesn't stack with itself though. 10 times switching in under a second doesn't mean you get 10 times the recovery penalty. That penalty will just get reset to the fixed "full recovery penalty" every time you switch. After switching 10 times during pause you will suffer the same recovery penalty as if you only switched 1 time.

Black Jacket and Quick Switch only lower that recovery penalty (combined they lower it to zero). 

Outworn Buckler is a particularly strong item for swapping back and forth. I had it on a Darcozzi Paladin/Shifter on my last run and it was actually quite OP how fast I could clear out negative effects by button smashing it back and forth. Mashing between that and my other slot (Lethandria's Devotion) was really strong.

Iirc if you mashed the swapping while paused it wouldn't actually work though. Or maybe it would only work once. I seem to recall that the actual mashing would need to occur with the game unpaused in order to get the effects. Doing it while paused would I think only give the effect once to you once you unpaused, but I could be wrong. Either way if you unpause and mash a bunch for a few seconds you'll get a lot of benefit out of it.

[Shai Hulud]

21 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

You can get phrases when critting with AOE weapons like the lance and WotEP. Having multiple enemies in then circle or cone increases your chances of critting and hence getting a phrase back. But you can only get one phrase back per attack. As for loremaster, you might consider going with a vanilla wizard/skald so that you could do all the crazy empowerment shenanigans with Least Unstable Coil, Sasha's Singing Scimitar (SSS), and the Weyc items. You can also empower yourself to get back spells, and then in the next battle empower Her Revenge with SSS to get back all of your empowerment points. @Not So Clever Houndhas written a lot about this and other Loremaster exploits in this forum.

I understand the interaction between Least Unstable Coil, Sasha's Singing Scimitar, Robes of the Weyc, Weyc's Wand etc but how does Her Revenge Swept Across the Land return all your empower points? It's just a lightning attack right? Hmm.

I'm attempting an ultimate run with hierophant atm. Thought it would be easy but I forgot what a bitch the early game is. I'm taking a different route that levels up more rapidly (Maje => Sandswept Ruins => Deadlight) but this requires I have 11 mechanics when I get to Sandswept Ruins for max effect. Which is possible, if you're lucky. Should be level 6 on arrival, hierophant starts with 1 mechanic, my artist background has 1 mechanics, hylea's bounty is 2 mechanics, so if I put 6 levels towards mechanics I get 10. Which is enough with thieves' putty. But this means I invest nothing in stealth, just have 2 points effective from Hylea. Port Maje is possible with 2 stealth but not at all forgiving. So the luck part is finding a reagent in Port Maje. There's 2 luminous adra at the engwithan waystation in the luminous adra pool and there's a solution in one of the waystation rooms, but the reagent seems to spawn only in Rinco's home in the northeast chest, and it spawns at most half the time. The other half you get gunpowder and pyrite. So if I get a reagent, I can put points in stealth then use luminous adra to clear Sandswept Ruins and get a couple levels more XP really fast. But I've gotten gunpowder my last like 4 attempts. Really annoying. I kinda wish the game used random loot tables like the first one did. I don't know how the randomness is seeded in this one. I've just been quitting when I see gunpowder (about 15 minutes in). 

Anyway. Maybe I'll start a non-iron loremaster run. Iron really adds layers of frustration...I hardly ever need to restart in combat, it's the unintentional misclicky crap, like whoops I was 1/4 second late dropping this trap and now I've pulled 20 enemies instead of 2 and oh Vela's dead, neat. 

[Shai Hulud]

30 minutes ago, masterty66 said:

Outworn Buckler is a particularly strong item for swapping back and forth. I had it on a Darcozzi Paladin/Shifter on my last run and it was actually quite OP how fast I could clear out negative effects by button smashing it back and forth. Mashing between that and my other slot (Lethandria's Devotion) was really strong.

Iirc if you mashed the swapping while paused it wouldn't actually work though. Or maybe it would only work once. I seem to recall that the actual mashing would need to occur with the game unpaused in order to get the effects. Doing it while paused would I think only give the effect once to you once you unpaused, but I could be wrong. Either way if you unpause and mash a bunch for a few seconds you'll get a lot of benefit out of it.

I don't know if Timeless works while paused with the normal pause interface (it should), but it definitely works if you go to your inventory and just switch weapons back and forth. I think that's kind of janky though so I scripted it. Can clear a 40 second arcane dampener hit in like 3 or 4 seconds real time. 

It's weird to me the game doesn't have any defense against magic besides arcane reflection, making arcane dampener like the most deadly ability in the game IMO (vs the player anyway). For that matter why doesn't suppress affliction work on arcane dampener? This level 3 spell can just remove ALL of your buffs for a very long time and there is no legit defense besides super high will, and even with super high will you get hit sometimes.

Oh well, got the outworn buckler swap strategy to counter.

[dgray62]

18 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

I understand the interaction between Least Unstable Coil, Sasha's Singing Scimitar, Robes of the Weyc, Weyc's Wand etc but how does Her Revenge Swept Across the Land return all your empower points? It's just a lightning attack right? Hmm.

It works like this: Her Revenge sends out three primary bolts of electricity , each of which procs secondary bolts like chain lightning on a small AOE scale. You can affect multiple enemies, but you'll get the multiple procs even when there's only one enemy present. If you empower it while wearing the LUC, each bolt (primary and secondary) will give you a random tier 3 inspiration, potentially giving you all 6 tier 3 inspirations. Moreover, if you are wielding SSS with the refreshing finale upgrade, it will not only give you back the empowerment point you just used, but will refill your empowerment points completely. So if you draw down your empowerment points by self-empowering to restore wizard spells, you can get them all back if you use your final point to empower Her Revenge. This also works with the Her Tears Fell Like Rain ability as well.