Ukraine Conflict

[Malcador]

https://tass.com/politics/1541181

Should have given the strikes a fancy name, Operation Rolling Blackout, maybe.  Interesting to declare openly

[Mamoulian War]

War reporter, Yuri Butusov posted a video made by Russian mobiks, about the incident in Mekiivka. Here is the translation. If I understood it correctly, the guys admited, that the now dead Russian soldiers tried to deceive UA soldiers, with pretend surrender.

edit: tbh after reading it for the second time, i am not so sure if I have understood it correctly, feeling ill, so my english understanding might be pretty off now. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1595720663427334144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1595720663427334144%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Ruskie CSTO is in a dire state, another good example of the new " Russian led world order " 

 

[xzar_monty]

A detail to catch the eye: The two folders close to Putin are in Ukrainian colours. Unlikely to be a coincidence, but as to what it means, I have no idea.

Edited November 24, 2022 by xzar_monty

[BruceVC]

55 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

A detail to catch the eye: The two folders close to Putin are in Ukrainian colours. Unlikely to be a coincidence, but as to what it means, I have no idea.

Good observation, I didnt read the comments. It must have been something he  wanted to discuss? It would make sense 

[Malcador]

Guess it's better than reading into body language.

[Elerond]

I am sure that Armenia has been very happy be part of security organization that has given it next to nothing assistance when it has been under attack of its neighboring country and lost some of its territories

[Zoraptor]

lol Armenia is just an awful example because... who is the major backer of Azerbaijan?

No, not major western ally Israel, they're its second biggest backer (mostly in the hope they'll, double lol, invade Iranian Azerbaijan), but important NATO member with its [belated edit, 2nd, obviously] largest military, Turkey. For anyone who thinks NATO- or the EU, or individual western countries- will do anything at all for Armenia I present the Syrian Kurds who did 99% of the dying on behalf of the 'international coalition' in Syria yet have been and are being hung out to dry by them now. Of course, you don 't hear much about it, now, because it ain't Trump doing it, it's Biden. Who was going to stand up to Erdogan and MbS, and instead is kissing their ring about as badly as Trump did. Oh yeah, and who do you think is a major supplier of gas to Europe? Azerbaijan. Doesn't matter how many times Macron phones Pashinyan to express support, c'est la carte blanche for the Azeris in realityland.

Only worse example would actually be the Syrian Kurds not being protected by Russia. Because guess who's been cheerily blowing up civilian infrastructure like power stations in their revenge for a bombing- carried out by a religious arab woman whose brother is a commander of the Turkish sponsored FSA and two other brothers fought for ISIS and who had been repeatedly contacted by the Turkish Nationalist Party; supposedly on behalf of atheist anarchist Kurds? Yep, it's NATO member Turkey. Let's see how long it takes for the Euroweenie Parliament to declare them a terrorist state, shall we? My money is might get passed just before earth gets swallowed up when the sun goes nova, but only might.

Mmm, I do love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. I eagerly await all the accusations of whataboutism from the usual suspects who can't cope with the cognitive dissonance.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Useful if just for appreciating engineering.  Disappointed there wasn't Red Alert track backing it, but what can you do.

As for Armenia, when will they get ATACMS. 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Malcador

[Maedhros]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Of course, you don 't hear much about it, now, because it ain't Trump doing it, it's Biden.

I think rather the war in Ukraine is the reason. Turkey is more important to NATO and the EU than ever.

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Malcador said:

U

 

Dont understand a word, what language is that, ancient Babylonian?

[Elerond]

12 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

lol Armenia is just an awful example because... who is the major backer of Azerbaijan?

Russia? Belarus?  Kazakhstan? Kyrgyzstan?  Tajikistan? Union State?

Or why does not Azerbaijan's aggression towards Armenia trigger CTSO's Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty (CST) which establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all

[BruceVC]

48 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Russia? Belarus?  Kazakhstan? Kyrgyzstan?  Tajikistan? Union State?

Or why does not Azerbaijan's aggression towards Armenia trigger CTSO's Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty (CST) which establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all

He  got you there Zora, I hate getting owned when its about the facts and data 

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

Russia? Belarus?  Kazakhstan? Kyrgyzstan?  Tajikistan? Union State?

Or why does not Azerbaijan's aggression towards Armenia trigger CTSO's Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty (CST) which establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all

None of those are the major backer of Azerbaijan.

(As soon as Article 4 is accepted Turkey will intervene on Azerbaijan's behalf, and as soon as that happens Armenia is fundamentally indefensible, which is obvious to anyone looking at a map. By conventional means, at least. Now, even though the situation should not trigger Article 5 and thus shouldn't bring NATO in do you really want a nuclear staredown between people as intransigent as Erdogan and Putin? Because that is what it would take, literally the threat of mushroom clouds over Baku and Ankara- and more- until they withdrew. The current situation may be crappy, but it's better than that.

Sadly, the only country that might be willing to actually fight for Armenia is Iran, and that is a double edged sword for obvious reasons; them intervening would instantly make the Azeris the good guys so far as the west is concerned even if the Azeris are cheerfully 1915ing the Armenians, and that would almost certainly... bring in Turkey as well, so either way Armenia is still screwed.

I eagerly await the energy boycotts of Azerbaijan and massive western supply of weapons to Armenia per Ukraine, or maybe ignoring the UNSC to bomb the Azeris civilian infrastructure to prevent ethnic cleansing per Kosovo. The energy boycott probably would make a difference since ultimately that's how Aliyev's government maintains itself, but satan will be icedancing before that happens)

[Mamoulian War]

Looks like again is someone forgetting how the current situation between Azerbaijan and Armenia started. Both sides perpetrated attrocities. The situation is very similar to what happened in Ukraine. With the biggest difference, that the referendum at that time was probably more valid, than anything Russia has ever done. Erdogan is ****, but putting all the blame on current situation in the area on his support to Azerbaijan is just riduculous…
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nagorno-Karabakh_War

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Dont understand a word, what language is that, ancient Babylonian?

Kerch bridge repairs, enough to pass a train on at least.

[Mamoulian War]

46 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Kerch bridge repairs, enough to pass a train on at least.

Depends on what type of train though. According to some Russian sources, the full recovery of train movement over Kerch Bridge as before the explosion (especialy for heavy cargo trains) might be availalabe somewhere at the end of the next year

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Depends on what type of train though. According to some Russian sources, the full recovery of train movement over Kerch Bridge as before the explosion (especialy for heavy cargo trains) might be availalabe somewhere at the end of the next year

Good, that gives the Ukrainians more time to blow the bridge up again 

[Zoraptor]

5 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Looks like again is someone forgetting how the current situation between Azerbaijan and Armenia started. Both sides perpetrated attrocities. The situation is very similar to what happened in Ukraine. With the biggest difference, that the referendum at that time was probably more valid, than anything Russia has ever done. Erdogan is ****, but putting all the blame on current situation in the area on his support to Azerbaijan is just riduculous

This is extremely funny, considering what your reaction is if someone 'but both sides' the Ukrainian situation. Oh yeah, and 'both sided' it without mentioning holodomor as background. Just admit Turkey is too important to offend, you need Azeri gas and Armenia isn't as important as Ukraine so a bit of light ethnic cleansing is OK and be done with it. Because that's certainly the politicians' attitude, they just won't state it.

(It's not very similar to what happened in Ukraine at all. Want to paint the Azeris as the Ukrainian equivalent? Poor victims fighting bravely against a country with... hmm, a quarter their population, while backed by a country with 30x Armenia's population and armed forces literally 25% of Armenia's entire population? Doesn't really fit, now does it? And you can't paint the Armenians as Ukraine equivalents either, they fit even worse.

This is that cognitive dissonance thing I was talking about at work)

Quote

With the biggest difference, that the referendum at that time was probably more valid, than anything Russia has ever done.

Crimea voted to leave Ukraine in 1991 in a perfectly legitimate referendum, lest we forget. Got suppressed at rifle point and memory holed by the media, but it did happen.

[Elerond]

Funny thing is that Armenia gets more support from allies of its enemy's ally than its own allies.

EDIT: Because keeping Turkey happy is more important for allies of Armenia than it is for Turkey's allies.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Elerond

[Mamoulian War]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

This is extremely funny, considering what your reaction is if someone 'but both sides' the Ukrainian situation. Oh yeah, and 'both sided' it without mentioning holodomor as background. Just admit Turkey is too important to offend, you need Azeri gas and Armenia isn't as important as Ukraine so a bit of light ethnic cleansing is OK and be done with it. Because that's certainly the politicians' attitude, they just won't state it.

(It's not very similar to what happened in Ukraine at all. Want to paint the Azeris as the Ukrainian equivalent? Poor victims fighting bravely against a country with... hmm, a quarter their population, while backed by a country with 30x Armenia's population and armed forces literally 25% of Armenia's entire population? Doesn't really fit, now does it? And you can't paint the Armenians as Ukraine equivalents either, they fit even worse.

This is that cognitive dissonance thing I was talking about at work)

Crimea voted to leave Ukraine in 1991 in a perfectly legitimate referendum, lest we forget. Got suppressed at rifle point and memory holed by the media, but it did happen.

Also funny, that you are completely forgetting, that at the time of the mentioned referendum, Crimea was still part of USSR, so if they were suppressed at rifle point, the blame lies in Moscow and not in Kyiv.
 

and as much as I am an Armenian supporter, as they have been shafted for centuries by everyone around, and I would love to blame Turkiye for all the **** happening in the region as well, be so kind and answer me, which country is de iure according to all international law, the internationally recognized owner of the territory of Nagorno Karabakh, and which country is currently occupying the above mentioned territory?

 

Maybe after you answering this to yourself, you will see the cognitive dissonance you were talking about, in yourself as well.
 

NATO/EU bad cos they shafted Serbia with them supporting Kosovo terrorist on the territory of Serbia. NATO/EU bad, cos they turned blind eye when Azeris were attacking occupying forces of Armenia on the territory of Azerbaijan … you are not even trying to pretend any consistency in blaming the “hypocrisy” of the west *sighs*  If you really wanted to blame west for being the same **** as Erdogan, you should at least pick the correct fight and point on all the collective shafting done by the west and Turkiye to Kurds…

 

Disclaimer:  I do not condone to any of the above mentioned actions, and my country is not recognizing neither Kosovo nor Artsakh nor Kurdistan.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Zoraptor]

It was suppressed in 1992 by independent Ukraine. The Soviet, of course, recognised Crimea as an ASSR on Feb 12 1991. That's heh, de jure as it gets in the USSR. Ironically, of course, you're happily claiming Arsakh as Azeri in the very same post based on... another soviet decision, and one which didn't have anything democratic about it at all. If one's de jure, both are.

I'll be explicit, I don't care about de jure a whit in that situation because there isn't a scintilla of doubt that the Azeris will ethnically cleanse, or just plain kill, the historical inhabitants of that area if given the chance. Anybody who justifies that under de jure terms, well, doesn't understand how international law works anyway (or, as always, should work). With 'Turkiye'- a country so insecure it had to change its name from that of a bird- cheering them on like it's 1915 all over again. Let's not forget, the official Turkish version is still that the Armenians were all traitors who decided to go for a long walk with no supplies and just gave up and died on the way, no fault to them.

3 hours ago, Elerond said:

Funny thing is that Armenia gets more support from allies of its enemy's ally than its own allies.

lol. Macron talks a good game, but it's entirely talk* and worth nothing. Who in NATO is actually supplying Armenia, and what? Here's the list of Armenian equipment- please remember to exclude anything loaned for peacekeeping purposes.

Pashinyan is pretty desperate to get aid from anyone and especially to prop himself up politically, and that involves slagging off Russia because that's how he got to power. Hardly a good idea if you want them to be supplying weaponry on credit. Indeed, rather than blame their previous loss on themselves they tried to blame Russia for that as well.

Anyway, let's see what the Azeris have to say on the subject, eh?

"Russian Peacekeepers Supply Weapons to Armenian Separatists in Azerbaijan's Karabakh Region" -- guess someone is lying.

Bit OT for here though, eh?

*except for a dozen MILANs. I'm sure the Azeris are... quaking.

[BruceVC]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/17/europe/brittney-griner-russia-prison-colony/index.html

Griner has been sent to a penal colony to  serve her 9 year " sentence " for possession of less than 1 gram of cannabis

And no real real global outrage from BLM movements. But thats to be expected because its not in a  Western country. You can have 500k people die in Ethiopia in a civil war and thats okay but racism on the border of Poland and Hungary will galvanize outrage and protest 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/17/europe/brittney-griner-russia-prison-colony/index.html

Griner has been sent to a penal colony to  serve her 9 year " sentence " for possession of less than 1 gram of cannabis

And no real real global outrage from BLM movements. But thats to be expected because its not in a  Western country. You can have 500k people die in Ethiopia in a civil war and thats okay but racism on the border of Poland and Hungary will galvanize outrage and protest 

It's not so much the amount as it's the principle. I'm in favour of letting drug runners/smugglers have it and be done with them. A few years ago, there was a case here in Australia, where some woman was caught abroad and sentenced to exactly what she deserved. Of course some people tried to stir up a **** storm, trying to whip up some sympathy for the poor woman (something something Chapelle, I've repressed the name of that waste of human dna). What a surprise, there wasn't a lot of sympathy to find for someone who lived a jet set life style, financing it smuggling drugs between Bali and Australia. I was very disappointed back then when the government arranged to have her transported out of a Bali jail, despite that being exactly where she deserved to spend the rest of her days.

As said, not the amount of drugs, but the principle of I'm rich and/or famous, so rules don't apply to me.

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Gorth said:

It's not so much the amount as it's the principle. I'm in favour of letting drug runners/smugglers have it and be done with them. A few years ago, there was a case here in Australia, where some woman was caught abroad and sentenced to exactly what she deserved. Of course some people tried to stir up a **** storm, trying to whip up some sympathy for the poor woman (something something Chapelle, I've repressed the name of that waste of human dna). What a surprise, there wasn't a lot of sympathy to find for someone who lived a jet set life style, financing it smuggling drugs between Bali and Australia. I was very disappointed back then when the government arranged to have her transported out of a Bali jail, despite that being exactly where she deserved to spend the rest of her days.

As said, not the amount of drugs, but the principle of I'm rich and/or famous, so rules don't apply to me.

Thats a position I can understand, I dont criticize  countries that have the strict and consistent laws around drug smuggling because its clear and its their country. I mentioned this before but when you land in Saudi Arabia they have a line in  the arrival lounge with a warning  in English and Arabic that basically  says " you can dump any drugs now but if you cross the line and you caught with drugs its the death penalty ". I dont agree with the death penalty for drug smuggling but thats their laws and they unequivocal about it and they clearly warn you 

But whats happening to Griner is not that, drug usage is rampant in Russia. See if you can find a single case of anyone being sentenced to 10 years for 1 gram of cannabis. Its purely political and about anti-US sentiment and its not consistent. Also she wasnt smuggling, she acknowledged she bought it for personal usage