Ukraine Conflict - "An empire founded by war has to maintain itself by war"

[xzar_monty]

8 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

I don't know about being evil, but there is this weird thing where people assume super rich people are experts in everything.

Is there? My sense is that super rich people themselves are inclined to assume they are experts in everything. This is much more prevalent than the phenomenon you describe, in my view. Of course, this would have to be thoroughly studied, so I don't think either of us really knows.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

US is growing frustrated over EUs inaction.
They are still not getting it that they will have to do this alone.

Isnt the EU helping with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees, isnt there a cost to that? 

How many Ukrainian are in the US compared to the EU ?

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

Is there? My sense is that super rich people themselves are inclined to assume they are experts in everything. 

monty that sounds like a very socialist thing to say, careful...we dont want people thinking you support socialism 

[Mamoulian War]

1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

US is growing frustrated over EUs inaction.
They are still not getting it that they will have to do this alone.

The help, compared to GDP of donor countries.

 

[xzar_monty]

34 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

monty that sounds like a very socialist thing to say, careful...we dont want people thinking you support socialism 

There is nothing either socialist or capitalist in what I said. Economic theory doesn't enter into it at all.

[Gfted1]

Genius's gonna genius, I dont care if theyre socially awkward.  Just keep pushing the envelopes.

Sometimes I wonder about how much human potential must have been lost over the ages, unrealized genius's living an unremarkable life and dying face down in their fields. There must be some kind of mathematical formula for calculating that.

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Sometimes I wonder about how much human potential must have been lost over the ages, unrealized genius's living an unremarkable life and dying face down in their fields. There must be some kind of mathematical formula for calculating that.

Well, a certain percentage of people(*) fulfil the definition of genius.

You can go through history and estimate which percentage of people have had access to education and opportunity, and start working from there, if you want. The numbers are not going to make you all that pleased. For instance, essentially all female genius has been lost throughout nearly all of human history.

The United States, with its astonishing inequality, continues to waste an awful lot of genius all the time, although it is true that there are grants and whatnot for exceptionally gifted people -- but it is obvious that an awful lot of people like this remain unnoticed and in extraordinarily poor circumstances. The US of course attracts a great deal of talent from elsewhere, so this balances things quite a lot, but it's still a dreadful state of affairs. (I'm not saying the US is particularly bad, when compared to everywhere else, but it could be so much better if it wanted to. If it cared even a little bit.)

 

(*) This division is not equal among peoples, though. For example, the Ashkenazi Jews are a remarkably intelligent group -- their average IQ is up to 15 points higher than that of just people in general. So the average Ashkenazi Jew is more intelligent than 85% of otherwise average people. This is, of course, a hotly contested topic. I have no personal opinion on it, so please don't read this as being for or against anything.

 

BTW, I also don't care if they're socially awkward. That's perfectly fine. But being utter and complete a-holes is a different thing altogether. Sometimes even that, though, can be sort of forgiven or at least treated with some measure of understanding. A friend of mine is a professor of physics and he talks of a certain other physicist who he regards as an almost certain Nobel price winner in the making. This person is extraordinarily difficult to deal with -- he is, from his personal point of view, surrounded by people who take ages to understand the stuff that is really quite obvious to him, so he gets irritated by other people's stupidity all the time. I also figure he's really very lonely, as a human being, and can talk to almost no one on his own level.

Edited October 16, 2022 by xzar_monty

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

The help, compared to GDP of donor countries.

Finland doesn't look good but 1) it is not in NATO yet and 2) it has an exceptionally long border with Russia. So it is one of those countries that constitute an exception of sorts.

[Gfted1]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

The United States, with its astonishing inequality, continues to waste an awful lot of genius all the time, although it is true that there are grants and whatnot for exceptionally gifted people -- but it is obvious that an awful lot of people like this remain unnoticed and in extraordinarily poor circumstances.

See! Imo, this is another glaring example of why the US needs UBI and UFE. Youve got to spend money to make money, and wrt untapped potentials, were leaving a lot of money on the table. Not even counting the vanishingly small percentage of genius's, it would raise the floor of our dummy level. And not just free "college", but also free trade schools.

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Genius's gonna genius, I dont care if theyre socially awkward.  Just keep pushing the envelopes.

Sometimes I wonder about how much human potential must have been lost over the ages, unrealized genius's living an unremarkable life and dying face down in their fields. There must be some kind of mathematical formula for calculating that.

Gfted1 dont you consider yourself a genius, you definitely a DIY genius?

[Gfted1]

Lol, no. As far as your forum rascals need to know, Im 10lbs of dumb in a 5lb dumb container.

But seriously, Imo, "genius" is something a person is born with. It can be genetics, or maybe some weirdness of their gyri, or some other unknown reasons, but it cant be taught. You either have it or you dont. DIY can be taught.

Anywho, Musk relented and Ukraine gets Starlink for a while longer. However I cant honestly fathom why they are hemorrhaging so much money every month. All the hardware is already deployed (and a sunk cost) so whats costing so much monthly? Maybe if they lowered their monthly rates it would help their bottom line?

[xzar_monty]

26 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

But seriously, Imo, "genius" is something a person is born with. It can be genetics, or maybe some weirdness of their gyri, or some other unknown reasons, but it cant be taught. You either have it or you dont. DIY can be taught.

That's almost certainly how it is.

I think we can apply Stephen King's dictum on writing, when it comes to what can be taught. You can't make a good writer out of a bad writer. You can't make a great writer out of a good writer. You can't make a genius writer out of anyone. What you can do, however, is make a good writer out of an average writer, and that's a very useful thing to do and worth the effort both for the teacher and the student.

I am also quite fond of the idea that great talent hits the target that others cannot hit, whereas genius hits the target that others couldn't even see. It captures the nature of genius: it expands the realm of what is regarded as possible or sometimes even existing.

[Chilloutman]

2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Lol, no. As far as your forum rascals need to know, Im 10lbs of dumb in a 5lb dumb container.

But seriously, Imo, "genius" is something a person is born with. It can be genetics, or maybe some weirdness of their gyri, or some other unknown reasons, but it cant be taught. You either have it or you dont. DIY can be taught.

Anywho, Musk relented and Ukraine gets Starlink for a while longer. However I cant honestly fathom why they are hemorrhaging so much money every month. All the hardware is already deployed (and a sunk cost) so whats costing so much monthly? Maybe if they lowered their monthly rates it would help their bottom line?

I guess is investment which is not generating revenue right now. 

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Genius's gonna genius, I dont care if theyre socially awkward.  Just keep pushing the envelopes.

Sometimes I wonder about how much human potential must have been lost over the ages, unrealized genius's living an unremarkable life and dying face down in their fields. There must be some kind of mathematical formula for calculating that.

Remember seeing a claim that since 1815, 315 MM people were killed in wars.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Malcador

[xzar_monty]

I wonder how that compares to earlier eras in terms of percentages. There's probably a study on the topic somewhere.

[Zoraptor]

1200-1400 would definitely have been higher proportion wise thanks mostly to Temujin, Timur etc.

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Isnt the EU helping with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees, isnt there a cost to that? 

How many Ukrainian are in the US compared to the EU ?

There's also a cost in terms of the near 600% (!) mark up on US LNG being sold to Europe. A mark up so large that contracts with other buyers are being systematically broken because the penalties are far less than the windfall profits. Then of course there's bafflement about not getting wholesale support from those effected...

The US is also, as always, leveraging its currency's status to protect its own economy while shafting everyone else's. Typical 'socialise the costs, privatise the benefits' from Yellen really; if we're all in this together that means not running everything apart from aid to Ukraine as a sole benefit to the US.

[pmp10]

19 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Isnt the EU helping with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees, isnt there a cost to that? 

EU?
No. It failed to find a single cent to account for millions of Ukrainian refugees.
Individual countries? Sure, but that doesn't get the EU off the hook. 

[Elerond]

2 hours ago, pmp10 said:

EU?
No. It failed to find a single cent to account for millions of Ukrainian refugees.
Individual countries? Sure, but that doesn't get the EU off the hook. 

With Cohesion's Action for Refugees in Europe aka CARE EU gave members states 10 billion euros for 2022 to help refugees in 8th of March (although it for all refugees not only Ukrainians)

Addition to that EU gave in same day 85 million euros to Ukraine to help refugees inside of Ukraine and 5 million euros to Moldova to help Ukraine refugees in Moldova

EU also gave all boarder states 15 million euros to help with increase costs of ensuring border security

EU also remove bureaucracy that would prevent people fleeing from Ukraine to earn income in host countries in EU

In 11th of March EU gave 300 million euros economic aid to Ukraine

In 23.03.2022 EU opened ERA4Ukraine to help researchers that had fled from Ukraine to continue their research. EU also coordinated 10000 beds for people fleeing Ukraine needing medical care and increased funding of REACT–EU for 2023-2027 and allowed to used funds from 2021 to help refugees from Ukraine.

25.03.2022 EU and Canada started with Global Citizens organization campaign to collect funds to help refugees from Ukraine everywhere in world

01.04.2022 EU accepts EU wide arrangement to easily changes Ukrainian hryvnias to euros

06.04.2022 EU gives guidance to accept Ukrainian qualifications for researches, doctors etc. in EU member states easily and rabidly

09.04.2022 EU Commission gave 1 billion euros to Stand With Ukraine fund raising

15.04.2022 EU gave 50 million euros of humanitarian funding to Ukraine

27.04.2022 EU removed for year tariffs and dumping safety methods from products from Ukraine

29.04.2022 EU member states have used 3.5 billion euros of 10 billion euros of CARE's cohesion fund

05.05.2022 EU created new 200 million euros fund to help people fleeing from Ukraine

20.05.2022 EU gave 600 million euros of Economic aid to Ukraine

09.06.2022 EU gave 20 million euros to support Ukrainian companies through EU's innovation fund

9.6.2022 EU gave 205 million euros of humanitarian aid to Ukraine

28.6.2022 EU's electric controller ENTSO-E announced that Ukraine is connected to European electric market starting from 30.06.2022

22.07.2022 EU increases its economic aid to Ukraine with 1 billion euros 

01.09.2022 EU opens its own evacuation center in Poland for patients that needs to moved to other EU countries

7.9.2022 EU gives Ukraine 5 billion euros economic aid in loans
 

 

[xzar_monty]

I think I can see a slight difference in numbers between that and what @pmp10 claims.

[pmp10]

32 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I think I can see a slight difference in numbers between that and what @pmp10 claims.

Not really once you realize that most of his entries are not refuges related and CARE / REACT are funds already spent elsewhere, which EU graciously allowed to be reallocated at the cost to initial intended recipients.
Elerond only point is that EU helped fund the internal refugees in Ukraine, which I admit is not what I had in mind. 

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Not really once you realize that most of his entries are not refuges related and CARE / REACT are funds already spent elsewhere, which EU graciously allowed to be reallocated at the cost to initial intended recipients.
Elerond only point is that EU helped fund the internal refugees in Ukraine, which I admit is not what I had in mind. 

But the point is the EU is carrying a cost and helping the Ukrainians. Thats not the impression you created?

[pmp10]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But the point is the EU is carrying a cost and helping the Ukrainians. Thats not the impression you created?

Suffice to say I think considering capability and responsibility EU has nothing to be proud of.
Or at least so far. 

We will soon see if it can at all adapt to a longer war.

[Mamoulian War]

Seems like, that the war will not be very long though
 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Malcador]

Heard a reporter on news mention cops doing this, thought he was mistaken at first and confused them using AA guns, but nope.

[Mamoulian War]

Well, some people were successful with downing them that way. There is also one case of old guy downing Su bomber, with his old gun during start of the war

 

https://meaww.com/ukrainian-pensioner-shot-down-an-85-million-russian-fighter-jet-just-with-his-rifle