S4 - Standalone Seeker Slayer Survivor mod! (Beta/Feedback thread)

[Elric Galad]

I ve just noticed that the Breath blessing giving +2 to all stats do not work with the mod. It's not a big deal but you should be informed.

[Noqn]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I ve just noticed that the Breath blessing giving +2 to all stats do not work with the mod. It's not a big deal but you should be informed.

Sh*t, thanks.

Ok, so some of the bonuses have their WhenToTriggerScript values set to OnPrologueComplete. According to decompiled code, these are triggered when the ActivateNewPlayer script is run. (In vanilla I presume this is when control jumps from the Watcher's "spirit" to their body.)

We don't have a body double in the Temple of Toamowhai to use, but the good news is that you can target the existing player character with ActivateNewPlayer and trick the game into granting the bonuses. Bad news is that this awkwardly hides their portrait until the player has saved and reloaded...

Alternatively the bonuses could be granted in the S4 post-character creation script, but there are no conditionals for checking whether a specific Blessing has been picked. I had already made sure the Mythical Adra Stone is added directly to your inventory if Mythical Discovery was picked, but that was possible thanks to that blessing triggering OnGameStart and then sets a flag which I could use in the conditional. However that would not be possible for +2 Attributes etc that trigger OnPrologueComplete and don't set flags.

So the two options are either to see if there's a way to "re-activate" the existing player without their portrait disappearing, or just add all relevant OnPrologueComplete bonuses to the player in the S4 script whether the player picked them or not.

Currently these are the bonuses that are not being applied correctly:

• Infamous Past
• Bonus Skills
• Bonus Attributes
• +5/50k Starting Money

Edited September 17, 2022 by Noqn

[Kvellen]

The +5/50k Starting Money seem to function when set to OnGameStart from what I can tell. Doing the same with other problem blessings and changing their scripts to instead activate delayed globalscripts seems to get them to function properly as well. Though that might introduce some compatibility issues when the mod is toggled off and on, or if any other mods affects the cost of Berath's Blessings.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kvellen

[Noqn]

2 hours ago, Kvellen said:

The +5/50k Starting Money seem to function when set to OnGameStart from what I can tell. Doing the same with other problem blessings and changing their scripts to instead activate delayed globalscripts seems to get them to function properly as well. Though that might introduce some compatibility issues when the mod is toggled off and on, or if any other mods affects the cost of Berath's Blessings.

Ah cool, this is also an option.

Mods should be compatible as long as they don't touch the WhenToTriggerScripts value. Also, anything that changes WhenToTriggerScripts without also changing the intro scenario would break several of the blessings, e.g. Bonus Attributes ability being added to the Watcher's spirit and not the actual player character. And anything that changes the intro scenario would most certainly be incompatible with S4 anyways.

On a vanilla (S4 disabled) new game, the player cannot save until after the Watcher has woken up and the OnPrologueComplete bonuses have triggered. So S4 being enabled in the middle of that non-S4 playthrough wouldn't cause any issues. On the top of my head at least I'd say this option is probably safe.

[Noqn]

Ha, I found a way to prevent the portrait from disappearing.

If the Player is targeted by ActivateNewPlayer while there is another member in the party, and that party member is then removed, the portrait is not hidden. By adding an extra party member to the Prologue_Party object, we will start the game with a generic companion alongside us. Right after doing the ActivateNewPlayer trick, running "ActivateObject Slot0 False" and "RemoveFromParty Slot0" will erase the extra companion from existence, while triggering the bonuses as appropriate

[Noqn]

9 minutes ago, Noqn said:

Ha, I found a way to prevent the portrait from disappearing.

[Elric Galad]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:23 PM, thelee said:

lol i'm using S4 as an opportunity to try out higher-level turn-based mode and i honestly have only just managed to get past the second fight (naga one); quite a steep learning curve for TB-mode coming from dedicated RTwP play. so not much comment yet.

I feel you.

Those snakes kicked my ass twice yesterday 

Starting at level 16 means your henchmen are level 15 and missing all items means you're overall much worse than an usual level 15 party.

I won't complain about difficulty though.

 

I may tend to design my build around lvl 20 efficiency, but during a S4 run, you'll probably spend less time at lvl 20 (especially for hardest fights) than for a standard run. At least you skip early game levelling !

 

EDIT : Well, maybe the cursor is slightly too high compared to the base game. I got my arse kicked on second fight without having a clue about how to win it. Granted maybe my party isn't perfectly built BUT the point of the mod is to enable experimenting various party, so any semi balanced party should work more or less. I don't consider myself a very good player (I can't beat the game above PoTD with party, I don't play solo), but I usually don't have that much difficulty.

It might be that Nagas spam a lot of abilities that have been buffed by CP/BPM    (Barbaric Blows, Toxic Strike, Perishing Strikes)

I can repeat first fight to grind experience and gold, but on second fight it seems quite early. Other players might not like it either. I mean, I can probably beat the current content, but the goal here is to provide a feedback about overall difficulty.

I would recommand to let main character start at level 17. So the others start at 16. Recommanded level for normal SSS is 16. Level 16 is an important breakpoint so it would help a lot.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

13 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

EDIT : Well, maybe the cursor is slightly too high compared to the base game. I got my arse kicked on second fight without having a clue about how to win it. Granted maybe my party isn't perfectly built BUT the point of the mod is to enable experimenting various party, so any semi balanced party should work more or less. I don't consider myself a very good player (I can't beat the game above PoTD with party, I don't play solo), but I usually don't have that much difficulty.

"cursor?"

this thread is now an S4 strategy/tips discussion.

i found what helped was being a lot more aggressive with anti-poison than i normally am. (antidotes and my main druid i specced out purge of toxins, which i normally avoid) on TB mode in particular, I bought and used a couple summon items to soak up hits (and action economy) and brought a long a cipher who could fast cast puppet master at the opening of the fight.

all else fails buy some scrolls of greater maelstrom to wipe out the totems asap, and a few naga as well

 

edit: i guess whether or not this is a "fair" difficulty for S4 is an interesting question. definitely would be more prepared in base game, but in s4 you have a lot more tools you can straight up buy or train on the spot.

Edited September 19, 2022 by thelee

[Elric Galad]

11 hours ago, thelee said:

"cursor?"

Well, litteral translation from French failure. <Setting the curseur too high> is a synonymous to setting the bar too high

Or setting the limbo bar too low, I guess.

11 hours ago, thelee said:

this thread is now an S4 strategy/tips discussion.

i found what helped was being a lot more aggressive with anti-poison than i normally am. (antidotes and my main druid i specced out purge of toxins, which i normally avoid) on TB mode in particular, I bought and used a couple summon items to soak up hits (and action economy) and brought a long a cipher who could fast cast puppet master at the opening of the fight.

all else fails buy some scrolls of greater maelstrom to wipe out the totems asap, and a few naga as well

I'm sure it can work. But also I went with a party of SC Berath Priest, SC Paladin, SC Rogue (a bit waiting for Gambit/Vanishing Strike), Psion/Troubador, and a melee Ranger/Rogue. This party might have too much support, even if it is probably not THAT poorly designed.

Berath Priest is annoyed by this particular fight because it deals damage sthrough Fire and Acid, and each half of the naga force is immune to one of this element....

11 hours ago, thelee said:

edit: i guess whether or not this is a "fair" difficulty for S4 is an interesting question. definitely would be more prepared in base game, but in s4 you have a lot more tools you can straight up buy or train on the spot.

That's a bit the point. It's not only about having troubles, but evaluating how much I have compared to standard play.

I have rarely felt so powerless than yesterday from a certain time. I mean, challenge is a good thing. But it's also about evaluating how much other player could feel. The mod should not be too frustrating. But you know what is said about difficulty in CRPG...

I guess after a few fights and a bit of money, one can feel very comfortable because of the access to all equipment indeed.

[Torm51]

I’ve always thought about a mod like this. Just to try builds before a play through. Awesome stuff.

[Elric Galad]

Ok, so I swallowed my honor and repeated the first fight (which isn't hard, obelisks can be destroyed while stealthed, and that Void Blight can be more or less tanked while the rest of the party poke it with bows) 

Now my henchmen are lvl 16. Say hello to Gambit, Disintigrate and various stat boost.

EDIT : so I have finally beaten those snakes. Now my party is level 17 and next fights I will be able to spam more symbols of Berath and Priest Fire spells  

Probably the difficulty doesn't need adjustment that much. People can farm a bit if their characters have trouble vs a specific fight. No-repeat run would be challenging, but that's something players are sometimes looking for.

It is fortunate that this first fight hasn't been removed as Noqn feared it at some point. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Noqn]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:33 AM, Elric Galad said:

Starting at level 16 means your henchmen are level 15 and missing all items means you're overall much worse than an usual level 15 party.

For S4 I highly recommend Get On My Level for the sake of the first two encounters, probably should've mentioned it. As long as it's properly pointed out in the mod description I think we can balance S4 with the expectation that the user has it installed.

Anyhow, if experienced players have to grind just to overcome the second mandatory encounter, I'd say the difficulty is set way too high. Though as you mentioned, Lv 15 -> 16 is a massive power spike, so I presume the first two encounters would be significantly less difficult with Get on my Level installed?

On 9/21/2022 at 11:11 AM, Elric Galad said:

It is fortunate that this first fight hasn't been removed as Noqn feared it at some point.

Shout-out to @Kvellenfor solving all of that by pointing out the existence of the front door

Edited September 24, 2022 by Noqn

[Noqn]

Some general stuff regarding Blessings/ActivateNewPlayer.

Now that the Starting Money Blessings will work, should we take that into account for the S4 starting gold? I think I'd rather have a balanced, fixed amount of gold, regardless of whether the blessings were picked. I've atm set up so that 55k is removed from the player right before the S4 starting pot is given. Thoughts?

In character creation, the attributes will now default to 10/10/10/10/10/10 rather than 16/14/13/13/8/11. (I'm using the proper Player_New_Game prefab rather than one of Obsidian's debug presets.)

I noticed the disabled "companion" will reenable themselves and awkwardly join the party on scene load. To stop this, I will use the "Kill" command from now on
(The corpse will be hidden out of sight and reach, in the spot where the player would land if they had entered from the well.)

I noticed the player portrait will always default to a specific portrait:

This is not an issue in vanilla because Wather's spirit prefab (which is used as a template during character creation) doesn't have a portrait specified.
In vanilla, I think this is roughly what happens:

1.     Watcher's Spirit has Player status.
2.     SetAdditionalCharacterCreationTarget -> Watcher's Body
3.     OpenCharacterCreation (Watcher's Spirit will be used as template)
4.     ActivateNewPlayer -> Watcher's Body

However when I try to replicate this, the Watcher's Spirit will disappear after ActivateNewPlayer and Player status will not be transfered to the Watcher's Body, which is entirely unique behavior compared to other character prefabs.

The Watcher's spirit most likely has a script attached to them somehow. Optimally I'd get this sequence working somehow, but if it's dependent on something in the Beyond prologue scene I'd just be wasting my time.

Since the portrait is a super minor issue I'll ignore it for now.

[Noqn]

You guys knew Humaire & Engari stay as spirits if you kill them? Clever failsafe.

Glad I found this. Engari drops three letters, when inspected they'll each trigger a Face quest + 3x artefact hunting. I've edited the scripts so that they don't trigger the artefact hunting.

I'll upload the standalone artefact hunting skip mod tomorrow after some sleep.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Noqn

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Noqn said:

For S4 I highly recommend Get On My Level for the sake of the first two encounters, probably should've mentioned it. As long as it's properly pointed out in the mod description I think we can balance S4 with the expectation that the user has it installed.

Anyhow, if experienced players have to grind just to overcome the second mandatory encounter, I'd say the difficulty is set way too high. Though as you mentioned, Lv 15 -> 16 is a massive power spike, so I presume the first two encounters would be significantly less difficult with Get on my Level installed?

Well, I grinded just a bit and maybe because I had a party of 3 single classes (so quite focus) falling in front of a fight that wasn't the best for one of my character.

With level 16 for henchmen, no big issue.

Difficulty has been fine since then.

1 hour ago, Noqn said:

Some general stuff regarding Blessings/ActivateNewPlayer.

Now that the Starting Money Blessings will work, should we take that into account for the S4 starting gold? I think I'd rather have a balanced, fixed amount of gold, regardless of whether the blessings were picked. I've atm set up so that 55k is removed from the player right before the S4 starting pot is given. Thoughts?

 I don't get it. Current starting money without blessing is fine. You should not change it.

Then if players use a blessing... well, they should get the corresponding additional money. I don't see the issue...

[Kvellen]

I agree with @Elric Galad. The 5k/50k starting money is at the end of the day an optional extra, and I'm sure there will be some players who will appreciate going in with the extra copper.

The extra 5k at least to my mind isn't a lot to worry about, though I do see the concern being that there is little reason for players not picking the 50k starting gold blessing. But I imagine there are quiet a few purchases that can still really eat into that amount when gearing up a party (especially if a player has some premade characters that are fully kitted out that they want to hire).

That said I haven't done the math on this, so if this does flush a player with more money than they would reasonably spend then it may be a case of just tweaking the amount given by the 50k gold blessing? Halving it to 25k maybe?

Though there is the possibility of opening the pandora's box of tweak/changing the other blessings that aren't really worth taking for an S4 playthrough (ship things, port marje vendors, fine equipment, "...Can I Pet Him Anyway?")?

16 hours ago, Noqn said:

You guys knew Humaire & Engari stay as spirits if you kill them? Clever failsafe.

Oh, so that's why there are spirit portrait versions of those characters in the game files? Good on Obsidian for assuming at least some players will try to kill every NPC!

18 hours ago, Noqn said:

Shout-out to @Kvellenfor solving all of that by pointing out the existence of the front door

I'm sure someone would have pointed it out eventually if I hadn't. 

And I have got to say, I am really impressed with how smooth the start of this mod is!

Spoiler

On 9/17/2022 at 11:07 PM, Noqn said:

Ha, I found a way to prevent the portrait from disappearing.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Kvellen

[Noqn]

23 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Then if players use a blessing... well, they should get the corresponding additional money. I don't see the issue...

7 hours ago, Kvellen said:

I agree with @Elric Galad. The 5k/50k starting money is at the end of the day an optional extra, and I'm sure there will be some players who will appreciate going in with the extra copper.

Thanks, I'll drop it.

7 hours ago, Kvellen said:

Though there is the possibility of opening the pandora's box of tweak/changing the other blessings that aren't really worth taking for an S4 playthrough (ship things, port marje vendors, fine equipment, "...Can I Pet Him Anyway?")?

Oh, that's an interesting thought! I'm ready to test replacement blessings if anyone has any suggestions.

[thelee]

23 hours ago, Noqn said:

Oh, that's an interesting thought! I'm ready to test replacement blessings if anyone has any suggestions.

unless you want to do this just for fun, i don't think this is necessary. this isn't vanilla or the crit path, this is a very specific mod that enables a specific outcome, and player should be expected to have a reasonable understanding that certain things just won't work or be effective (like eder getting an extra pet... but no eder).

[Noqn]

12 hours ago, thelee said:

unless you want to do this just for fun, i don't think this is necessary.

Yeah pretty much, it would be a cool feature but it's not a requirement. If someone has ideas for new blessings I'd be happy to test them, but I won't put work into it otherwise.

[Noqn]

I looked up the texture sheet and atlases used for Berath's Blessings stuff, there were three images that I think can be used as replacements to mark blessings as "disabled". This would give a convenient oversight of what blessings are actually relevant for S4.

You can see how they each look when selected, affordable and unaffordable compared to vanilla icons:

(I've also set the disabled blessing names & descriptions to empty strings.)

I'm thinking either the blank texture with a cost of 0 to illustrate that the blessings won't do anything, or the lock icon with an impossibly high cost.

Thoughts?

[Elric Galad]

8 minutes ago, Noqn said:

I'm thinking either the blank texture with a cost of 0 to illustrate that the blessings won't do anything, or the lock icon with an impossibly high cost.

Thoughts?

I would vote for the second one. Foolproof and clear.

[Noqn]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

I would vote for the second one. Foolproof and clear.

I'm leaning towards that too.

There's this mod that increases bb points from achievements:  https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/259
But we can disregard it imo, the blessings won't do anything even if the player could afford them.

If you want to try the options in action here're the downloads:

Blank & Affordable -> S4 - BB Clarity (Blank - Affordable).zip
Blank & Unaffordable -> S4 - BB Clarity (Blank - Unaffordable).zip
Lock & Unaffordable ->S4 - BB Clarity (Lock - Unaffordable).zip

Edited September 27, 2022 by Noqn

[Vasvary5050]

Just a quick note to say that I just stumbled upon this (S4) whilst googling about S3, and I can definitely see me coming back to do this once I've finished my current playthrough of Deadfire. Very cool!

[Noqn]

There's an achievement that's granted when you've found all artefacts, should I trigger this in S4 and/or the standalone Artefact Hunt Skip mod after finding the available ones?

It does give 1 Berath's Blessings point and some people care a lot about achievements, so it would probably be a good idea to put it in Artefact Hunt Skip at least. But I'm uncertain about S4.

[Elric Galad]

OK, I went through my first run (as Survivor), with main quest battles and a few other.

Everything was fine enough, in my opinion, the mod can be published.

 

Just a couple of comments (apart for Berath Blessing that I already told) :

- Missing the Quality enchant by gold only upgrades. But don't remove the possibility to upgrade them with Mythic Adra and SSS quest items (which enable Legendary Quality upgrade)

- Ingredients should not be sold for clarification. Ingredients that you get during battles should be mostly for selling. You should advertise that the rewards aren't balanced to enable recipes in the description of the mod.

- I didn't check if Consumables can be edit: purchased indefinitely. They should. Or at least in big enough quantity.

 

Everything was fine for mechanic, battle balance, etc... (I mean, after the initial trouble to beat nagas, but as you pointed, it was because I didn't use the mod to get lvl 16 henchmen directly).

 

Congratulations ! Hope to see this soon on Nexus !

Edited October 11, 2022 by Elric Galad