Ukraine Conflict - "A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny"

[xzar_monty]

@Chilloutman: Do you understand that in the original? I don't speak Russian, you see, and what bothers me with both this and essentially all other Russian sources I've looked at (in translation) is the tone. They are both playing the victim game and being really quite aggressive, and the general tone is much more sensational and a lot more foolish / tasteless than many of the worst tabloids I've come across in the "west" (in languages that I can understand).

Is my impression true, or is it at least partly the fault of google translate? (Google translate is a decent enough tool but I would never use it for anything I'd consider for publication.)

[Chilloutman]

4 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@Chilloutman: Do you understand that in the original? I don't speak Russian, you see, and what bothers me with both this and essentially all other Russian sources I've looked at (in translation) is the tone. They are both playing the victim game and being really quite aggressive, and the general tone is much more sensational and a lot more foolish / tasteless than many of the worst tabloids I've come across in the "west" (in languages that I can understand).

Is my impression true, or is it at least partly the fault of google translate? (Google translate is a decent enough tool but I would never use it for anything I'd consider for publication.)

No I can't read cyrillic that well and less so understand Russian but this is first time I read something in quite negative tone to Russia by Russians. You must understand that media are very state controlled in USS... I mean in Russia so its very propagandist, thats why  you got that tone impression from them. They just have to have that spin

[xzar_monty]

29 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

I mean in Russia so its very propagandist, thats why  you got that tone impression from them. They just have to have that spin

Yeah. The most blatant example of this that I have seen are the pronouncements made by Russian diplomats concerning the country's relationship with Sweden and Finland, now that Sweden and Finland are heading towards NATO. I mean, Russian diplomats are saying that these two northern countries have suddenly turned against Russia, become very unfriendly towards Russia and essentially ruined decades of good relationships, which is an enormous disappointment and insult to Russians.

And in all this, the Russian diplomats make no mention whatsoever of the war in Ukraine. It's as if the Russian diplomats are extremely surprised by this sudden change in how Finland and Sweden view Russia.

When dishonesty is taken to these extremes, it's really quite startling to see.

[Chilloutman]

well they have to, or they would fall out of window or slip on banana in shower

[xzar_monty]

I know. That doesn't make it any less startling. Here's another example: Shoigu being brutally honest and extremely trustworthy. Or perhaps not. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-defence-minister-shoigu-military-campaign-ukraine-deliberately-slowed-2022-08-24/

Yet another example would be almost anything Lavrov has said in the past six months. I understand the reasons, but it's still completely in the WTF territory, as far as comments on world events are concerned.

[Malcador]

Spin is indeed startling to see.

[xzar_monty]

We're not talking about spin anymore, but of course you already knew this. The claim, for instance, that the Moskva had an accident and sank in a storm is not spin; spin would involve selective assembly / choice of facts and a particular perspective on them, not total disregard to what is true in terms of, for example, demonstratable weather conditions. And it's not even a degree of difference anymore, it's a completely different thing, but of course you already knew this, too.

[Malcador]

Talking about Sweden and Finland is a case of spinning things a bit, though.  I suppose in the Moskva's case, you could be very creative and say the storm just took advantage of the missile damage to sink her But those two countries are now against Russia moreso, no? So just a sneaky interpretation of it, half truths and all.  Likewise with Shoigu's take (military pauses always have funny explanations). 

Outright lies isn't much to be shocked at either, though. If you've been around long enough anyway. Have to save face no matter what, hah.

[xzar_monty]

I agree, Sweden & Finland do fall within the realm of spin, especially if viewed as separate from everything else. I also agree that outright lies as such aren't that shocking, what is shocking is the nature of the lies. For example, in the case of Moskva, there really was no storm, so the outright lie is just stupid. (See, for example, this: https://web.archive.org/web/20220417090821/https://www.npr.org/2022/04/15/1093026912/russian-moskva-warship-sunk-ukraine) I can almost sort of appreciate a lie if it's intelligent and serves a strategically clever purpose, but we're not talking about that here.

The stuff becomes startling -- for me anyway -- because of the sheer volume of it, espcecially when you consider the consistently aggressive tone (combined with the victim attitude assumed whenever possible). It's not a case of "clearly we're not sharing the same perspective" anymore, it's more like a case of "clearly we're not living in the same world", which startles me.

Edited August 25, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Mamoulian War]

IMHO Very good analysis about why it takes “so long” in Kherson. By a Danish military guy.

 

[Malcador]

Brief article on the meat grinder

OUTSIDE BAKHMUT, Ukraine — The Ukrainian commander, just a few yards from his unit’s position in a maze of earthen trenches and dugouts along eastern Ukraine’s front line, pondered what exactly his troops had done to mark their country’s 31st Independence Day.

The commander, Berlin, who goes by a nickname like many Ukrainian soldiers, scoffed, clearly amused by the thought.

“We have no fireworks here for the holiday,” said Berlin, whose nom de guerre comes from his ability to speak German. Berlin’s men were dug in outside the eastern city of Bakhmut, just over a mile from a tree line bristling with Russian troops.

“We have no wounded, no dead,” he added late Wednesday afternoon. “It’s already a holiday for us.”

The whistles and thuds of incoming Russian artillery fire reverberated somewhere off to the west and Berlin, with a buzz cut and tired eyes, shrugged. The shells were hitting another Ukrainian position. Not his.

While defiant Ukrainians celebrated in Kyiv on Wednesday, which is also the six-month mark since Russia’s invasion, Independence Day looked much the same as previous days to these fighters at the front.

Since Russian forces seized the cities of Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk earlier this summer, taking a swath of eastern Ukraine’s mineral-rich Donbas region, Moscow’s advance has focused on several smaller population centers, including Bakhmut.

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Berlin, who hails from the city, which had a prewar population of around 70,000, was appointed the commander of his company roughly four days ago, he said. The last commander had his hand sheared off by a Russian shell and Berlin happened to be next in line.

The unit, which once had around 120 soldiers, had been reduced to 55 men in recent weeks as Russian forces pushed to take the city. The advance ultimately stalled on its outskirts but both sides took heavy losses, Ukrainian military commanders said.

Berlin attributed his unit’s casualties, the majority of them shrapnel wounds and amputations, to Russian shelling from mortars and rockets.

“The rest are dead,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/world/europe/we-have-no-wounded-no-dead-on-the-eastern-front-a-ukrainian-unit-sees-little-change-on-independence-day.html

[BruceVC]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/putin-signs-decree-to-increase-size-of-russian-armed-forces-by-137000/

More Russian soldiers for the meat grinder 

 

[Mamoulian War]

More about economics of war. Russia has launched approximately 7.5 billion USD worth of missiles since the beginning of the war. The used up almost all of the Iskander missiles, and are probably slowly running out of Kalibr (they still have pretty big stockpile). That is the main reason, why they are using modified S300 rockets more and more often. They are launching them already in three occupied Oblasts. (Kherson, Zaporhizhia, Kharkiv)

[Lexx]

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/08/26/7364870/

"Armed Forces of Ukraine destroy base of Russian army in Kadiivka, killing two hundred Russian Airborne troops – head of Luhansk RMA"

Jeez, 200 people down in one attack.

/Edit: Apparently this is yet unverified, though.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Lexx

[Sarex]

10 minutes ago, Lexx said:

/Edit: Apparently this is yet unverified, though.

99% of the things posted here are, so don't let that stop you.

[Malcador]

Wonder if they confused the term/slang 200 for the number of dead.  

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

99% of the things posted here are, so don't let that stop you.

Thread would be pretty boring otherwise  

[Mamoulian War]

Well Serhii Haidai was pretty consistent during the announcements of the events happening at the Luhansk Oblast to both sides. Although me too thinks, that this number is pretty big

[pmp10]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Wonder if they confused the term/slang 200 for the number of dead.  

Both sides have made claims of 200+ kills in various strikes.
It's becoming the propaganda number for 'a lot'.

[Mamoulian War]

Two more collaborators were hunted today. One in Berdyansk (Zaporozhia Oblast) by a tree planted bomb, and one in Starobelsk (Luhansk Oblast) by kamikaze swallow. Looks like the health insurance costs will see a big spike in following days…

[Mamoulian War]

If you remember the picture from Finland posted here few weeks ago by @Elerond, the media have finally found it out.

 

[pmp10]

An interesting thing happened recently:
Zaporizhzhia NPP has been reconnected to Ukrainian power grid.
Had to be done by the Russians even though they seemed adamant to shut the place down if it couldn't power Crimea. 

This along with constant delays to referendums and Azov trails might point to an active effort to freeze the conflict.

[Lexx]

Apparently there is rumors about tactical nukes being transported to crimea. How much truth is in it, who knows.

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, pmp10 said:

An interesting thing happened recently:
Zaporizhzhia NPP has been reconnected to Ukrainian power grid.
Had to be done by the Russians even though they seemed adamant to shut the place down if it couldn't power Crimea. 

This along with constant delays to referendums and Azov trails might point to an active effort to freeze the conflict.

I have been following this very concerning development and Im glad it seems to have been resolved. My opinion of the Russian military strategy almost cant get lower but I didnt  think even Putin would allow this nuclear plant to melt down by cutting off power and then relying only on generators

Hopefully the Ruskies dont continue playing games like this because a nuclear meltdown would hurt  them as well 

 

 

[xzar_monty]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:06 PM, Mamoulian War said:

If you remember the picture from Finland posted here few weeks ago by @Elerond, the media have finally found it out.

It would be more accurate to say "the English-speaking media".

[Mamoulian War]

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

It would be more accurate to say "the English-speaking media".

Unfortunately, I do not understand Finish, so I have to rely on the English, German, Ukrainian, Czech and Slovak speaking media, and that day was the first day, when they mentioned it.