Sun and Moon - is this normal?

[MaxQuest]

On 7/22/2022 at 4:55 PM, Elric Galad said:

I have some doubt about understanding third category. Does it include weapon like Keeper of the Flame ?

I have checked that weapon. And yeah.

It's a flail weapon with regular flail attack (no keyword). But every time you score a Graze/Hit/Crit in melee with ParentEquippable source, you launch an AoE attack (5m radius centered at target). That attack has Fire kw.

[dgray62]

That's pretty great that it launches the fire AOE attack even on a graze. I've never uses KotF with a barb. Would the AOE launch on carnage grazes or hits?

[Boeroer]

No, only proper weapon hits.

 

[Kaylon]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:32 PM, MaxQuest said:

That's a good point.

From patch 4.0 changelog:

• Thundercrack Pistol, Dragon's Dowry, and Frostseeker now have keywords for their respective elements on their attacks.
• Thundercrack Pistol's Conductive Blast & Storm Rune Shot attacks now have the Electricity keyword.

What if these weapons had their damage types changed?

• Thundercrack: pierce -> pierce/electricity (PEN 7 -> 6)
• Dragon's Dowry: pierce -> pierce/fire (PEN 9 ->
• Frostseeker: pierce/slash -> pierce/frost (PEN 8 -> stays

Or naa?

If everyone agrees that existent weapons should keep their keyword, then we can discuss further if putting them in line with Essence Interrupter, Frostfall and LDV is a good thing or not.

Personally I consider it more of a flavor thing with no major implications (like opening doors to new powerful builds). It means you will have to switch less vs immunes/very high AR enemies (mostly on upscaled PotD):

• Frostseeker - helps vs constructs, big ooze, fire titan
• Thundercrack -  helps vs bog lurkers, skeletons, death guards, some vithraks, most constructs, warden/tyrant of decay, Hauani, Ukaizo guardian, Auranic
• Dragon's Dowry - helps vs bog lurkers, skeletons, tyrant/warden of decay, Hauani
• Sun and Moon - helps vs bog oozes, some grubs, some panthers, Hauani; it makes also its draining ability less useless
• Grave Calling - helps vs earth blights, eotens, rathuns, menpwgras, flame nagas, Hauani, magma dragon, Fire Titan, Soul Collector
• Hel Beckoning - helps vs some ogres, constructs, Belranga

 A special case is Magran's Blessing shield - it already does crush/burn damage but it has no keyword attached to it... 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Kaylon

[Noqn]

Like this?

Weapon	Keyword	Vanilla Dmg	Suggested Dmg
Dragon’s Dowry	Fire	Pierce	Pierce/Burn
Sun And Moon (Sun)	Fire	Crush	Crush/Burn
Sun And Moon (Moon)	Frost	Crush	Crush/Freeze
Animancer Bow	Electricity	Pierce/Shock	-
Thundercrack Pistol	Electricity	Pierce	Pierce/Shock
Lord Darryn’s Voulge	Electricity	Slash/Shock	-
Grave Calling	Frost	Slash	Slash/Freeze
Hel Beckoning	Acid	Slash/Pierce	Slash/Corrode
Frostseeker	Frost	Pierce/Slash	Pierce/Freeze
Frostfall	Frost	Crush/Freeze	-
Firebrand	Fire	Burn/Pierce	-
Caedebald’s Blackbow	Acid	Corrode	-

 

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Noqn said:

Like this?

Weapon	Keyword	Vanilla Dmg	Suggested Dmg
Dragon’s Dowry	Fire	Pierce	Pierce/Burn
Sun And Moon (Sun)	Fire	Crush	Crush/Burn
Sun And Moon (Moon)	Frost	Crush	Crush/Freeze
Animancer Bow	Electricity	Pierce/Shock	-
Thundercrack Pistol	Electricity	Pierce	Pierce/Shock
Lord Darryn’s Voulge	Electricity	Slash/Shock	-
Grave Calling	Frost	Slash	Slash/Freeze
Hel Beckoning	Acid	Slash/Pierce	Slash/Corrode
Frostseeker	Frost	Pierce/Slash	Pierce/Freeze
Frostfall	Frost	Crush/Freeze	-
Firebrand	Fire	Burn/Pierce	-
Caedebald’s Blackbow	Acid	Corrode	-

 

This table is gorgeous and the 2 first columns are informational  anyway. Is that all Keyworded weapons ?

 

I would call it "Solution 1". It requires minus 1 PEN for all weapons going from 1 damage type to 2 damage types (Dragon's Dowry, Sun&Moon, Thundercrack Pistol and Grave Calling).

"Solution 2" is to remove KW from Dragon's Dowry, Thundercrack Pistol, Grave Calling, and Hel Beckoning. 

A vote could help.

 

Removing KW from Sun&Moon could lead to unexepcted consequences (because of weapon upgrades), so I think going for Solution 1 for Sun&Moon could be the best, independantly from the chosen solution for other weapons.

[Noqn]

23 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

This table is gorgeous and the 2 first columns are informational  anyway. Is that all Keyworded weapons ?

Yep, excluding Kalakoth's Minor Blight!

29 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

I would call it "Solution 1". It requires minus 1 PEN for all weapons going from 1 damage type to 2 damage types (Dragon's Dowry, Sun&Moon, Thundercrack Pistol and Grave Calling).

"Solution 2" is to remove KW from Dragon's Dowry, Thundercrack Pistol, Grave Calling, and Hel Beckoning. 

A vote could help.

+1 in favor of Solution 1 from me. If the elemental keywords were deliberately added, it's imo much more appropriate to adjust the damage types to fit the keywords than vice versa. (It also really fits the weapons anyways.)

[Boeroer]

Table is cool. But - and forgive me if I'm dense - does adding a secondary "fitting" elemental damage type to a weapon fix the probem that enemies who are immune to a elemetnl keyword will also not get harmed by a weapon that has an alternative dmg source (like pierce for example)? atm it just seems that it just makes the weapon dmg more plausible (which is nice, too of course).

If that immunity issue can't be solved with alternative dmg because the keyword-immunity blocks everything - wouldn't it then make sense to give all those weapons just the same single dmg type as the keyword (for example Essence Interrupter and Thundercrack only do shock dmg), give weapons which will lose a dmg type (see here Essence Interrupter) a +1 PEN bonus and be done with it?

Then at least the behaviour with immunities vs. keywords would make sense and players wouldn't have to ask "why tf doesnt my bow deal pierce damage if he enemy is only immune to shock dmg?"

To pick up that table:

Weapon	Keyword	Vanilla Dmg	Suggested Dmg
Dragon’s Dowry	Fire	Pierce	Burn
Sun And Moon (Sun)	Fire	Crush	Burn
Sun And Moon (Moon)	Frost	Crush	Freeze
Animancer Bow	Electricity	Pierce/Shock	Shock
Thundercrack Pistol	Electricity	Pierce	Shock
Lord Darryn’s Voulge	Electricity	Slash/Shock	Shock
Grave Calling	Frost	Slash	Freeze
Hel Beckoning	Acid	Slash/Pierce	Corrode
Frostseeker	Frost	Pierce/Slash	Freeze
Frostfall	Frost	Crush/Freeze	Freeze
Firebrand	Fire	Burn/Pierce	Burn
Caedebald’s Blackbow	Acid	Corrode	Corrode

It's only about the immunity question. If that can be solved otherwise then please ignore my blabber.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

I think the idea is that some weapons get the drawback of immunity without the advantage of dealing elemental damages.

So no use for the keyword apart for Arcane Archers (and... similar niches ?)

 

But I get why Boeroer's idea could be seen as a "Solution 3".

[Boeroer]

While Balance-wise it's not so important I just find this (exemplary) situation extremely weird:

- (Made up) enemy "Electric Amoeba" is immune to shock dmg but has slash AR of 0.

- Player attacks with a weapon that can do slash OR shock damage (we assume that a character uses the dmg type that works better on an enemy - that's how we "rationalize" the workings of dual dmg weapons, right?).

- Enemy just laughs at the slash because it happens to come from a weapon that's also doing electric damage, as a treat. 

- Player very confused.

 

--

Especially because all those keywords on weapon ate invisible so it's hard to grasp for the player why it doesn't work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

14 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Table is cool. But - and forgive me if I'm dense - does adding a secondary "fitting" elemental damage type to a weapon fix the probem that enemies who are immune to a elemetnl keyword will also not get harmed by a weapon that has an alternative dmg source (like pierce for example)? atm it just seems that it just makes the weapon dmg more plausible (which is nice, too of course).

Like I already explained in a post above, a fix would be to make the enemies immune to elemental damage instead.

However it doesn't fix non immune enemies absorbing damage like Dorudugan and especially flame nagas. Personally I don't see a clean solution to avoid burn damage while using Firebrand or Sunlance against them. It's possible to increase their burn AR, but that will make their absorption less effective overall.

[Boeroer]

2 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

However it doesn't fix non immune enemies absorbing damage like Dorudugan and especially flame nagas. Personally I don't see a clean solution to avoid burn damage while using Firebrand or Sunlance against them. It's possible to increase their burn AR, but that will make their absorption less effective overall.

?

I suggested a solution where any attack that is keyworded with an element only is allowed to deal that elemental dmg and no alternative.

Would I give Dragon's Dowry, Firebrand and Sunlance (etc.) the keyword Fire and make them deal only burn damage and no alternative dmg - how might this create a problem with Flame Nagas and such?

 

[Kaylon]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

?

I suggested a solution where any attack that is keyworded with an element only is allowed to deal that elemental dmg and no alternative.

Would I give Dragon's Dowry, Firebrand and Sunlance (etc.) the keyword Fire and make them deal only burn damage and no alternative dmg - how might this create a problem with Flame Nagas and such?

 

?

Why would you give them only burn damage? That changes nothing and you just nerf them...

[Elric Galad]

51 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

?

Why would you give them only burn damage? That changes nothing and you just nerf them...

Clarity I guess. E.g. no surprise for the player to not be able to damage fire immune with a pure fire weapon.

Also if you change dual damage types for single type, one should add about +2 PEN to compensate (+1 PEN would be a bit mehish). Overall, the weapon would be better at its specialty (doing elemental damages) and not that much worse for versatily since elemental immune couldn't take physical damages from that weapon anyway.

 

Note that I'm not necessarily advocating for this solution, I'm just trying to figure what advantage it could have. 

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Why would you give them only burn damage? That changes nothing and you just nerf them...

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Clarity I guess. E.g. no surprise for the player to not be able to damage fire immune with a pure fire weapon.

Yes, exactly. As I tried to lay out in my previous posts.

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Also if you change dual damage types for single type, one should add about +2 PEN to compensate (+1 PEN would be a bit mehish).

Yes, fair. Would maybe prevent this to feel like a nerf. 

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Overall, the weapon would be better at its specialty (doing elemental damages) and not that much worse for versatily since elemental immune couldn't take physical damages from that weapon anyway.

Precisely.

They will not change against the immune guys, stay great alternative weapons to the "normal" ones should you meet enemies who are immune or very resistant to pierce, slash or crush damage and vice versa. And with +2 PEN they will be better than before against generally/universally high AR foes and should stay to be the preferred option in most encounters - like before. At least I guess so. 

Also some of those weapons (see Dragon's Dowry, Thundercrack) only have single type dmg to begin with. They would need no PEN adjustment but just a simple shift from physical dmg (such as pierce) to elemental damage (such as burn). No nerf basically (on the contrary you get a good alternative dmg weapon) but circumvents the immunity/keyword confusion.

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Note that I'm not necessarily advocating for this solution

Clearly advocating.  

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Boeroer

[Noqn]

In terms solely of solving the Keyword Immunities behavior, let's jot down the suggestions that are on the table:

1. Implement Elemental Weapon keywords. (Current Community Patch solution)

It seems the more this is scrutinized, the more side effect are discovered... I just looked a bit more and found that Ice Blights get 8-12s of Shaken/Frightened/Terrified when hit by a Fire attack, and likewise Flame blights get Might afflictions when hit by Frost, and so on. This behavior is now lost.

I'm strongly against keeping this solution since it has caused so many unforeseen regressions, most likely including ones we haven't found yet.

 

2. Narrow the Immunity effects to Class abilities.

I mentioned it briefly earlier in the thread, but it's possible to limit the immunities to Spells and Class abilities (and scrolls), allowing the enemies to be hit by keyworded weapon attacks.

The downside is that it also allows enemies to get hit with non-Class abilities, such as those granted from Items. While enemies be protected against the appropriate damages as usual, any secondary effects will bypass immunity.

(So if you e.g. hit a Storm Blight with a Druid's Reckless Storm, it will be completely immune. But if you hit it with Conductive Storm from Deltro's Cage, it will be stunned but not take any damage.)

Here's the table of all Item Abilities with relevant Keywords, and whether an enemy would be completely immune or get hit with secondary effects with this solution (which would be a regression)

Ability/Enchantment	Full Immunity?
Storm of Seven Bolts	Immune
Lighting Wrangler	Immune
Spellbind: Jolting Touch	Immune
Heaven’s Wrath	Immune
Of Fireballs	Immune
Conductive Storm	Stunned
Fire Shield	Immune
Greater Fire Shield	Immune
Purifying Fire Shield	-3s Beneficial Effects
Minor Spellbind: Sunbeam	Blinded
Dragon’s Breath	Immune
Corona of the Soul	Immune
Ball Lightning	Immune
Wind Calling – Wilting Wind	Immune
Wind Calling – Winter Wind	Push
Metani’s Traps	Blinded
Sun’s Blessing	Blinded

I'd say these are acceptable edge-cases. I'm more worried about the risk of unforseen consequences with this solution. Enemies getting hit by their own AoEs they should've been immune to?

What are your thoughts, good enough? I'm not convinced of this myself yet.

Here's the download if anyone wants to try it -> Elemental Keyword Pseudo-Immunity.zip

 

3. Remove the Immunity effects altogether.

Drastic, but consistent.

 

4. Changing elemental weapons to single-damage. (Boeroer's suggestion)

This is definetely the most clean and straightforward solution, but I'd be really sad to see those dual damage types go... as well as the option of adding the new ones.

 

5. Keep it as-is.

Not ideal, but won't cause any regressions either.

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Especially because all those keywords on weapon ate invisible so it's hard to grasp for the player why it doesn't work. 

This is the crux. I'd argue that vanilla behavior is fine, if it just weren't so deceptive.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Noqn

[Elric Galad]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:48 AM, Noqn said:

In terms solely of solving the Keyword Immunities behavior, let's jot down the suggestions that are on the table:

1. Implement Elemental Weapon keywords. (Current Community Patch solution)

It seems the more this is scrutinized, the more side effect are discovered... I just looked a bit more and found that Ice Blights get 8-12s of Shaken/Frightened/Terrified when hit by a Fire attack, and likewise Flame blights get Might afflictions when hit by Frost, and so on. This behavior is now lost.

I'm strongly against keeping this solution since it has caused so many unforeseen regressions, most likely including ones we haven't found yet.

Requires at least fixing the couple of Elemental bonuses that don't apply to them.

On 7/27/2022 at 2:48 AM, Noqn said:

2. Narrow the Immunity effects to Class abilities.

I mentioned it briefly earlier in the thread, but it's possible to limit the immunities to Spells and Class abilities (and scrolls), allowing the enemies to be hit by keyworded weapon attacks.

The downside is that it also allows enemies to get hit with non-Class abilities, such as those granted from Items. While enemies be protected against the appropriate damages as usual, any secondary effects will bypass immunity.

(So if you e.g. hit a Storm Blight with a Druid's Reckless Storm, it will be completely immune. But if you hit it with Conductive Storm from Deltro's Cage, it will be stunned but not take any damage.)

Here's the table of all Item Abilities with relevant Keywords, and whether an enemy would be completely immune or get hit with secondary effects with this solution (which would be a regression)

Ability/Enchantment	Full Immunity?
Storm of Seven Bolts	Immune
Lighting Wrangler	Immune
Spellbind: Jolting Touch	Immune
Heaven’s Wrath	Immune
Of Fireballs	Immune
Conductive Storm	Stunned
Fire Shield	Immune
Greater Fire Shield	Immune
Purifying Fire Shield	-3s Beneficial Effects
Minor Spellbind: Sunbeam	Blinded
Dragon’s Breath	Immune
Corona of the Soul	Immune
Ball Lightning	Immune
Wind Calling – Wilting Wind	Immune
Wind Calling – Winter Wind	Push
Metani’s Traps	Blinded
Sun’s Blessing	Blinded

I'd say these are acceptable edge-cases. I'm more worried about the risk of unforseen consequences with this solution. Enemies getting hit by their own AoEs they should've been immune to?

What are your thoughts, good enough? I'm not convinced of this myself yet.

Here's the download if anyone wants to try it -> Elemental Keyword Pseudo-Immunity.zip

A tiny bit unclear, but thanks for the effort.

EDIT : I mean, your post is clear, but I fear the rule will not be, in terms of gameplay.

On 7/27/2022 at 2:48 AM, Noqn said:

3. Remove the Immunity effects altogether.

Drastic, but consistent.

Elemental KW Immunity only then. Damages Immunity shall be kept.

On 7/27/2022 at 2:48 AM, Noqn said:

4. Changing elemental weapons to single-damage. (Boeroer's suggestion)

This is definetely the most clean and straightforward solution, but I'd be really sad to see those dual damage types go... as well as the option of adding the new ones.

And add +2 PEN to weapons changed to single type damages from dual type.

On 7/27/2022 at 2:48 AM, Noqn said:

5. Keep it as-is.

Not ideal, but won't cause any regressions either.

This is the crux. I'd argue that vanilla behavior is fine, if it just weren't so deceptive.

There's also 6. Changing elemental weapons to at least partly-damage when not already present.

Such as changing Dragon's Dowry to Pierce/Burn

This requires -1 PEN to weapons changed to dual type damages from single type.

Weapons will suffer from immune, but it is closer from the original and at least the weapon will be at least partially elemental.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

So, @MaxQuest, do you have any news about this topic (or a CP update in general) ?

I'm planning to release a new BPM version soon so synchro could be useful. 

Cheers !

[MaxQuest]

@Elric GaladI was following this topic for awhile, but have noticed there was no consensus in opinions; and thus was more interested in other stuff

Also I was away for vacation)

 

---

 

Re CP Update, here are some changes that are ready:

CP.Basic:

• included Carnage and Powder Burns indicators (credit goes to Noqn)
• fixed the bug where Beguilers were dealing bonus damage, and getting bonus focus vs enemies that were under effect of mind inspiration instead of mind affliction (credit goes to Teslum and ElrikGalad)
• increased the base penetration of raw attacks and effects from 0 -> 7 penetration, in order to improve the situation with associated lashes (that would also had 0 penetration) (credit goes to Noqn and ElrikGalad)
• fixed hostility of Ogre's "Brutal Strike" ability (it is now marked as hostile, and will also clear on rest)
• fixed paladin's "Sacred Immolation" upgrades AoE to match that of the base ability (2.5m -> 3.5m)
• fixed Orishia amulet not granting "Undecisive" ability at the start of combat (credit goes to dunehunter)
• fixed Dragon's Dowry not having a firing sound (also implemented by Kvellen in a separate mod)
• fixed Red Hand not generating cipher focus on second shot (in case when Double Tap was triggered) 
• double checked the Missing Strings issue that were reported by a few players

CP.Extra:

• increased paladin's "White Flames" AoE from 2.5m -> 3.5m
• druid's "Taste of the Hunt" changed from ApplyOverTime to ApplyOnTick

CP.Keywords:

• fixed the issue where Arcane Archer would get -5 accuracy penalty with elemental weapons (CP.Keywords fix related to new elemental weapon keywords)

 

And here's what is left to do:

• fix Dragon Thrashed fire damage component not benefiting from Scion of Flame (even with CP.Keywords that adds Fire keyword) (in progress)
• check wizard spells, and see if some need Poison or Disease keyword
• improve elemental weapons consistency
• fighter: decrease Take the Hit recovery from 4s -> 0s (sync recovery with BPM)
• (?) fury druid: elemental druid spells [+20% range] -> [+12% damage; or +1PL] (?) (too long range allows to kill some enemies without them coming to you)
• (?) monk: increase Whisper of the Wind cost (?) 
• (?) monk: make it unable to generate wounds during Whisper of the Wind (?)
• monk: improve wounds gain for Sister of the Reaping Moon (sync with BPM)
• paladin: decrease the cost of Abjuration, add Veil Piercing and increase damage (sync with BPM)

is there anything else that you think should be in CP?

Edited August 24, 2022 by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

@Elric GaladI was following this topic for awhile, but have noticed there was no consensus in opinions; and thus was more interested in other stuff

I get that. In absence of consensus, I would say it is better to either pick the closest from the original or from previous CP version.

Or just do as YOU please (as long as consistent)

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

 

 

CP.Extra:

• increased paladin's "White Flames" AoE from 2.5m -> 3.5m

Just curious about why you want to buff this one. I usually consider White Flames to be great, my favorite Paladin's subclass power and borderline OP with dual wielding.

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

 

• druid's "Taste of the Hunt" changed from ApplyOverTime to ApplyOnTick

Also synchro with BPM by the way.

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

 

• check wizard spells, and see if some need Poison or Disease keyword

There a bunch of this (and missing Acid too) in BPM.

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

• (?) fury druid: elemental druid spells [+20% range] -> [+12% damage; or +1PL] (?) (too long range allows to kill some enemies without them coming to you)

I really like the +20 range. I would advocate that there's more broken things in the game. I can see the point, even if I wonder if it is kind of CP purpose. +1 PL would be a bit close from specialist wiz maybe.

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

• (?) monk: increase Whisper of the Wind cost (?) 

Yeah, BPM went for 9(!) wounds (6 for dichotomous soul and resonant touch). Worths it in my opinion.
Just don't go for 10 wounds or Xoti won't be pleased.

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

is there anything else that you think should be in CP?

No idea... bar everything you can sync and pick from BPM.

[MaxQuest]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

Just curious about why you want to buff this one. I usually consider White Flames to be great, my favorite Paladin's subclass power and borderline OP with dual wielding.

I really like the idea of Wayfarer healer, but that short range makes it hard sometimes to bring characters that need healing close enough. Also it was making the party more subject to enemy AoEs.

Also it becomes the same as AoE of Sacred Immolation; which provides a good visual indicator.

Would you prefer there to be some separate talent that would increase the flames (and maybe even beacons) AoE?

 

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

There a bunch of this (and missing Acid too) in BPM.

Death Ring: add Acid (and remove Decay?)
Nannasin's Cobra Strike : add Poison

regarding Minoletta's Minor Missiles and Minoletta's Missile Salvo, I haven't decided yet. They deal mixed damage; and I will proceed in the same fashion as with weapons that deal phys/elem damage; which still have to think about)

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

I really like the +20 range. I would advocate that there's more broken things in the game. I can see the point, even if I wonder if it is kind of CP purpose. +1 PL would be a bit close from specialist wiz maybe.

Yeah, there definitely are more broken things, this was one was just easy and fast to implement.

Well, I can include it in some .AntiCheese package later on, if I'll have the time to implement that list some days)

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

Yeah, BPM went for 9(!) wounds (6 for dichotomous soul and resonant touch). Worths it in my opinion.

Wow), that's quite a cost increase)

Personally I was thinking about rising it's cost to 6 or 7 wounds; with the main intent to make it harder to cast back-to-back.

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

No idea... bar everything you can sync and pick from BPM.

I like quite an array of changes there

But many are not fitting into CP.Basic and CP.Extra, as they are somewhat conservative. I will think about that later.

On 8/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, Elric Galad said:

Or just do as YOU please (as long as consistent)

Yeap, most likely. The consistent part is tough though.

The pilot idea is:

• to change Firebrand damage from fire/pierce to fire (and add +2 Pen to compensate for that)
• all summoned elemental weapons (Blackbow, Minor Blights, Draining Touch and Firebrand) that deal only one damage type are "true" elemental weapons. These cannot damage related elem_immune enemies (e.g. Flame Blight immune vs Firebrand); but these will cause bonus effects on enemies that are weak to that element (Ice Blight might get shaken/../.. when hit by Firebrand). 
• the found elemental weapons - deal two types of damage phys/elem - these weapons can deal damage to elem immune enemies with the remaining phys damage type. But their main attacks won't cause shaken/../.. on enemies with related weakness. (like with current CP.Keywords, via Elemental Weapon keywords)
• Sun and Moon is a "regular" weapon that deals crush damage; but it's Burn/Frost procs will get respective keywords. Thus these procs will benefit from Scion of Flame/Secrets of Rime talents and Ring of Focused Flame acc bonus; also they won't damage respective fire/frost immune enemies. 
• either remove elemental keywords from weapons that don't deal elem or phys/elem damage; or convert them from phys to phys/elem (and switch their keywords like CP.Keywords currently does, e.g: Fire -> Fire weapon). Also adjust their penetration accordingly.

 

So a rule of thumb would be:

• weapons that have only one damage type, and that one is (Burn, Freeze, Shock, Corrode) - won't be able to deal damage to respective elem_immune enemies. These weapons will also be able to inflict specific affliction on respective elem_weakened enemies. These weapons are also all summoned.
• weapons that have phys/elem - will try to deal their phys damage to respective elem_immune enemies; but will not apply special effects to respective elem_weakened enemies. These weapons are all sold or looted.

Edited August 26, 2022 by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

Guys, do you think the spells that summon elemental weapons (Draining Touch, Caedebald's Blackbow, Firebrand) should have respective (Acid, Acid, Fire) keywords?

And also do you think Wall of Thorns spell should have Poison keyword? Or we consider it a spell that summons plants/thorns. And now those thorns inflict Poison on their own. (?)

[Constentin Lévine]

3 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Guys, do you think the spells that summon elemental weapons (Draining Touch, Caedebald's Blackbow, Firebrand) should have respective (Acid, Acid, Fire) keywords?

Personally I dont think so, but Conjuration KW (I mean for others than wizard summoned weapons). The ability to summon a weapon is a summoning skill but not an elemental one. 

3 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

And also do you think Wall of Thorns spell should have Poison keyword? Or we consider it a spell that summons plants/thorns. And now those thorns inflict Poison on their own. (?)

According to the description : "Creates a thick wall of gnarled thorns that inflicts Pierce damage and applies a Poison that causes a Weakened state",  it is not the druid spell itself that give a poison attack. The plant KW is appropriate for what the druid do, I think.

[Constentin Lévine]

About CP @MaxQuest, the Turning Wheels lash has "range":"none" (for ranged and melee attacks) and "source":"none" (for everything ). So the lash is applied with spells!

[MaxQuest]

16 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

About CP @MaxQuest, the Turning Wheels lash has "range":"none" (for ranged and melee attacks) and "source":"none" (for everything ). So the lash is applied with spells!

      "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectGameData, Assembly-CSharp",

      "DebugName": "Turning_Wheel_SE_BurnProc",

      "ID": "c752db0c-a713-4c1d-ae1b-c2ee2c61533f",

      "Components": [

        {

          "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",

          "StatusEffectType": "BonusDamageProc",

          "BaseValue": 0,

          "DynamicValue": {

            "Stat": "AccruedResource",

            "SkillDataID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

            "ClassID": "f0036bfb-53d5-4d0c-b11a-b780d788a108",

            "MultiplyBy": 0.02,

            "Operator": "Add"

          },

          "AttackFilter": {

            "Range": "Melee",

            "Source": "None",

 

I have checked this, but there is a melee range filter.

So yeah it will work with damage dealing spells too, but only with melee ones.

Tooltip is not against that:

(Turning Wheel) - The monk is able to channel their pain into pure energy adding a proportional fire bonus to Melee Damage.