The New Cinema and Movie Thread

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

21 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't want to oversell it, so maybe only read this after you've seen it:

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No, really, don't read this:

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I haven't watched any other 2022 movies (I think?), and I probably won't, but I think even if I had watched a hundred others...probably even a few hundred others, it'd still be movie of the year.

 

Well

The Northman was 2022. Iirc, you saw it and didn't like it. Imo, it is the weakest of Eggers' movies.

[Bartimaeus]

@Sarex No.

Also, holy crap, I knew Waymond reminded me of someone...

Spoiler

He's freaking Short Round from Temple of Doom...apparently returned to acting after a several decade hiatus.

@KP wants Blue Velvet I did see that, but I already forgot I saw that. This movie was, on the whole, slightly more enjoyable than The Northman to me, .

Edited June 12, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

4 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

No.

Spoiler

Specifically the last part 3.0+1.0. The genre jumping and the story did for me, but just with a reversed PoV.

 

[Bartimaeus]

@Sarex I'm not going to disagree with you, because I can't. But I can't because I am trying really, really hard to recall what you're talking about right now, but I can only remember all of about a minute or two of that movie, which makes it just about impossible to be reminded of it at any place or time...outside of other situations where I have general feelings of anguish, mental disconnect, and "oh my gosh won't this please end". So no, Everything Everywhere All at Once does not remind me of that film, .

Edited June 12, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

@Sarex I'm not going to disagree with you, because I can't. But I can't because I am trying really, really hard to recall what you're talking about right now, but I can only remember all of about a minute or two of that movie, which makes it just about impossible to be reminded of it in any situation...outside of other situations where I have general feelings of anguish, mental disconnect, and "oh my gosh won't this please end". So no, Everything Everywhere All at Once does not remind me of that film, .

Fair enough. Now waiting on @majestic and his cursed vault of a mind.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

46 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

This movie was, on the whole, slightly more enjoyable than The Northman to me, .

Just a smidgen better. Now we wait to see if it can stand up to Star Trek Discovery. Oh and let's see if even @InsaneCommander is afriad likes Everything Everywhere All At Once.

[Bartimaeus]

I'm pretty sure the Bible said something about we four Horsemen of the Apocalypse all liking the same thing being the ignition for the end times, so I'm personally hoping @majestic hates it. InsaneCommander can probably get by with enjoying it without the apocalypse starting, though.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Just now, Bartimaeus said:

I'm pretty sure the Bible said something about we four Horsemen of the Apocalypse all liking the same thing being ignition for the end times, so I'm personally hoping @majestic hates it.

I'm pretty sure the end times would be an improvement.

[majestic]

4 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm pretty sure the Bible said something about we four Horsemen of the Apocalypse all liking the same thing being the ignition for the end times, so I'm personally hoping @majestic hates it.

The world is doomed either way. We either all agree on something and cause the end times to occur, or reality finally ceases to exist because the mythical space of the Venn-Diagram that violates reality as we know it will open and end everything, everwhere, all at once, like in Dogma.

Edited June 12, 2022 by majestic
Freudian slip with Violet, I guess. Added a pun for the fun of it!

[InsaneCommander]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Just a smidgen better. Now we wait to see if it can stand up to Star Trek Discovery. Oh and let's see if even @InsaneCommander is afriad likes Everything Everywhere All At Once.

This will only be available here on June 23. But I'm not planning on getting back to theaters yet.

[majestic]

The world's still here, I guess that means that at least I don't have any reality shaping powers. It's 2 am now, and I need a good night's sleep to make sense of what I've just watched.

Kinda feel a little like Roland in the Desert, with the Horn of Eld.

[Bartimaeus]

13 minutes ago, majestic said:

The world's still here, I guess that means that at least I don't have any reality shaping powers. It's 2 am now, and I need a good night's sleep to make sense of what I've just watched.

Kinda feel a little like Roland in the Desert, with the Horn of Eld.

Not sure it's a film I would want to watch right before bed...

Spoiler

There are at least a few specific things I could point to that would definitely really bother me in other films...yet with the exception of one major thing that was really over the top and quite unnecessary (but which I'm sure KP had a hoot at), I really wasn't for the most part.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

43 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Not sure it's a film I would want to watch right before bed...

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There are at least a few specific things I could point to that would definitely really bother me in other films...yet with the exception of one major thing that was really over the top and quite unnecessary (but which I'm sure KP had a hoot at), I really wasn't for the most part.

 

Are we talking

When the guys shoved stuff up their ass to learn martial arts or the **** fight or the hot dog hand sex scene?

Because I guesses all three would bother you.

[majestic]

I dreamt I was stuck in a Maniac Mansion'esque point and click adventure. I'm not sure if that is at all related to watching Everything Everywhere All At Once, but probably. I'd post more details about the dream, but what happened in it is curiously out of grasp. I remember dreaming and the topic, but the details are gone.

Anyway, I debated with myself whether or not I should post an honest opinion or not, but I will. This will be like the many times my friends dragged me to a movie and then asked how it was, and I usually say fine or okay, with the unsaid implication that fine isn't as good as it sounds, and okay was worse than that. I said it before, but I've been also asked if I like films at all. Which I do. *sigh*

So, before getting needlessly verbose, here's a TL;DR: The film was fine, and it's my turn to be the meanie zucchini for a change. Which is fine too, because that's usually my role when talking about films anyway. 

10 hours ago, majestic said:

Kinda feel a little like Roland in the Desert, with the Horn of Eld.

For this to make sense, I'll have to explain a bit more - and spoil the end of the book series, so take care. In King's The Dark Tower, Ka is a wheel. Ka is a concept of fate, destiny and destination the people in this world have. As such, and even though a whole lot of people were disappointed with the ending of the book series, it makes sense for the protagonist of the series, Roland, to eventually end up exactly where he started. Albeit with the slight variation of having the Horn of Eld, an item of some importance, in this new turn of the wheel.

The Horn of Eld in this case is me not hating the film, which makes it different to the last time the forum - back then before Interplay went belly up and some of Black Isle's staff founded Obsidian - agreed that there's a movie of year (or better) to watch. That, back then, it was also a film containing some martial arts, namely Kill Bill Vol. 1. As I said, the difference between this and Kill Bill Vol. 1 was that I hated watching Kill Bill for a myriad of reasons. There's a fine irony here insofar as I've mentioned to someone that I will hold off on watching Everything Everywhere All At Once because I'm afraid that it will be another Kill Bill repeat. Misgivings were overcome by this thread being overwhelmingly positive about the film, and what do you know, the wheel turned. I should have stuck with my initial feeling, really - and that was based simply on the reactions of posters, not even on knowing anything about the film. Alas.

I did not hate Everything Everywhere All At Once, but I also don't think it is movie of the year material. For any number of reasons, many of which are spoilers. I'll try to post some general things before marking everything for whoever still wants to watch it.

Anyway, the first, and most subjective of it all, is the casting of the film. I like Michelle Yeoh. I also like Jamie Lee Curtis in most of her roles. Even if @Bartimaeus hadn't pointed out that Waymond is Short Round from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, I would have noticed that, because apparently he was directed to simply act like Shorty in the film during the times he wasn't told to act like Jackie Chan. Which is, luckily, most of the time. He also often still sounds like Short Round. Although that last part is an issue that fused with knowing two versions of the film, the original, and the German dub, therefore it is hard to attribute this entirely to, I don't know, either Ke Huy Quan as an actor or the direction. To add some further insult to the injury, he looks like Harry Potter throughout most of the film.

Right at the start I was thrown into a film where the main cast consisted of Michelle Yeoh, someone you don't cast simply for a role as small business owner in the US, Chinese Harry Potter and Jamie Lee Curtis as tax auditor, and while the film at least proceeds to show off that Ke Huy Quan is indeed a good actor, the overall impression of the cast was pretty immersion breaking right from the beginning. I can't put this any other way but to say that I think this movie would have benefitted immensely from not having big name actors attached to it.That said, I liked most of the opening, and I enjoyed the film up until the point they had the first action scene that went on for what felt like an hour.

Spoiler

Who knows, it probably was an hour long, and the entire reason for casting Michelle Yeoh became clear. Well, at least she didn't say "Diplomacy is so boring" before she started breaking faces, like she did in Star Trek: Discovery.  The worst part of it is that in all the runtime the film has, so much is wasted on pointless action (action that is whacky for the sake of being whacky, not to make a decent point) that the good parts come up short. Why have a two hour and twenty minute runtime when you'll leave me wanting more of the good stuff and bore me out of my mind with ridiculous kung-fu shenanigans?

Then the same effect that ruined Avengers: Endgame for me set it. My mind just drifted away, and I started thinking about what was going on in the film, which is in the case of movies like this a really bad place, because nothing comes out favorably then. Especially since Chinese Harry Potter every now and then turns into Kyubey to drop an exposition dump on the audience.

So, where to start? The film's basic premise, which is Chinese Harry Potter and Kung-Fu Yeoh being married, owning a coin wash that is in tax troubles with an onging IRS audit is great, so is the idea that Chinese Harry Potter wants to get divorced but not really as a wake up call for what he sees as a failing marriage. I'm not going to hold it against the film that the actors participating killed my immersion, because that is far too subjective and unfair.

I'm going to be like that and list at least some things that started bothering me with the premise and execution because the film caused me to think about it.

Michelle Yeoh deducting expenses from the tax without even trying to mask her activities is the reason for the audit. While that kind of makes sense on the premise that this universe is the one where she makes all the wrong choices and her life never truly amounts to anything (until Kyubey shows up and promises Madoka a life as magical girl unlike any other, have fun with that thought @Bartimaeus ), that doesn't explain how Chinese Harry Potter keeps convincing the auditor to give them any more chances.

Then there's Kyubey's exposition dump about the premise of the universe jumps being based on the statistically most unlikely actions taking place. Wouldn't such actions immediately spawn different universes as well, spawned right from the point where they take place? Given infinite potential universes spawning an infinite amount of universes every time, how is there even a map of universes? The title would be what a multiverse like that looks like. Everything, everywhere. All at once.

Doesn't that, ultimately, throw off the map? Does that matter? No, not really, because they only reason this is done in such a way is to have the actors do silly stuff to mind-hop universes and acquire skills they otherwise wouldn't have. Not to mention that the entire idea makes no sense if all you do is download the software from your brain. How does having singing training increase the lung capacity of your body in this universe? Yes, that's right, it doesn't.

How can Jubilee Chewbacca threaten the existence of every universe when there are universes she can't really reach because she's never been born? Even in the end, she can only go where there's a copy of her mind to enter. That being said, while the scenes with them in the universes that have no life were absolutely brilliant, how did they go there if you can't actually go to these places? Are rocks proper recepticles for human minds? Why? How?

So, if you can warp into anything you want when you're Tupac Tupulala, why would James Hong insist on killing off Joy to save another universe? Hey, that means she doesn't threaten all universes at all. Mind you, this is predicated on the idea that a being so powerful and knowledgable that it can distort the fabric of reality in a direct way can't find a way out of the predicament. Or maybe she can, because hey, at some point, she's a rock, a pinata and a stick figure in an animation.

Why would she have to create a black hole bagle of everything to destroy herself, when she could just dissolve herself instantly, or disconnect her fractured mind from every reality, everywhere, all at once? Problem solved, instantly. Movie is over.

See, the problem with the premise is that the more you think about it, the less and less you're enjoying what's going on, and everything that adds another layer of silly on top becomes problematic and distracting. I was getting really, really bored of the ongoing Kung-Fu whackiness and it still continued on for what felt like half an hour, with people inserting "Auditor of the Month" awards that look like butt plugs into their rectums (which was my first thought when I saw them, I'm sad to say) and eventually Joy beating others to death with ginormous plastic schlongs.

Eh, and the less is said about the hot dog fingers universe, the better. That might have been the squickiest stuff I've seen in a mainstream film ever, and I've seen a Japanese film where the male lead eats pubic hair and a hard boiled egg the female lead stuffed up her nether regions.

That said, let's move the thing that saved the film: The core of it, the message, if you will. Chinese Harry Potter's take on life is wonderful, and the resolution to the character's problems is great. And yet, therein also lies an issue, yet again. There's so much more of that which could have been in the film, instead of, well, protracted action sequences that serve no purpose. If there's one damning thing I can say about it is that I actually sat through the action and contemplated skipping the film ahead to the good scenes.

Imagine how much that takes. I don't even skip the really bad episodes in series I sometimes rewatch. Yes, that means watching Shades of Gray from TNG (no relation to the terrible book and equally terrible film), or Move Along Home and Let He Who Is Without Sin... from DS9. And yes, Threshold from Voyager. I ultimately, being who I am, did not skip around on the off-chance that the scenes would contain something necessary for the resolution, or some minor tidbit that would cleverly come back into play, like, I don't know, a raccoon. There were not many of these, and in fact, I would have liked the film better if I just had fast-forwarded through all the nonsense.

So, hey guys, reality is saved. I didn't hate it, so unmaking the entire universe isn't going to happen (yet?), and I certainly am not going to cause the fourth trumpet to blow by loving it. It was fine. It could have been so much more. It just wasn't. No need to hold on to your potatoes.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by majestic
Expanded the spoiler a little, maybe there are people who are actually surprised by Michelle Yeoh being cast for kung-fu shenanigans! Oh, that's a spoiler in the spoiler-edit. Woops!

[Sarex]

@majestic On the whole I agree that what you found to be the weakest part of the movie rang true for me too, but not to the same degree.

Spoiler

I found the whole fantasy side of the movie to be a metaphor for the characters day dreaming or fantasizing about the way their life could have been or how they could have reacted to some situation that happened to them. I found this to be very relatable, sadly, so it kind of connected me to that side of it.

So looking at it like that I could gloss over any illogical things that happened during it as they were simply from the perspective of the character and thus flawed.

Though to be perfectly honest I skipped ahead a couple of times during the movie (not a lot), but knowing the direction the movie took I would probably be much more engaged when watching it next time.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sarex

[majestic]

21 minutes ago, Sarex said:

@majestic On the whole I agree that what you found to be the weakest part of the movie rang true for me too, but not to the same degree.

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I found the whole fantasy side of the movie to be a metaphor for the characters day dreaming or fantasizing about the way their life could have been or how they could have reacted to some situation that happened to them. I found this to be very relatable, sadly, so it kind of connected me to that side of it.

So looking at it like that I could gloss over any illogical things that happened during it as they were simply from the perspective of the character and thus flawed.

Though to be perfectly honest I skipped ahead a couple of times during the movie (not a lot), but knowing the direction the movie took I would probably be much more engaged when watching it next time.

If that was the intention, then it's actally worse. Would have been a nice concept, but it would have needed to be communicated differently - and with even less action. In fact, more like absolutely not action scenes at all. Would have made for a nice 1:20 minute runtime too. The casting would have been great too, then, because that would have subverted expectations in a good way.

Edited June 13, 2022 by majestic

[Sarex]

40 minutes ago, majestic said:

If that was the intention, then it's actally worse. Would have been a nice concept, but it would have needed to be communicated differently - and with even less action. In fact, more like absolutely not action scenes at all. Would have made for a nice 1:20 minute runtime too. The casting would have been great too, then, because that would have subverted expectations in a good way.

As I said I agree that the action part could have done with some trimming, but to me it was not a deal breaker.

edit

Spoiler

Did you read what I asked Bartimaeus? Did it remind you of the last part of

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sarex

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

That said, let's move the thing that saved the film: The core of it, the message, if you will. Chinese Harry Potter's take on life is wonderful, and the resolution to the character's problems is great. And yet, therein also lies an issue, yet again. There's so much more of that which could have been in the film, instead of, well, protracted action sequences that serve no purpose. If there's one damning thing I can say about it is that I actually sat through the action and contemplated skipping the film ahead to the good scenes.

This was one of the things I mentioned that I knew should've annoyed me, because most of the action scenes...just aren't very good, in my opinion. But it's one of the very few cases where I actually turned off my brain and let the campy silliness of it all make it O.K. for me (and if it wasn't meant to be campy, it sure felt like it was to me because of how bad and silly it all was). Except for the scene that KP mentioned in reply in earlier to me - that was too much. Honestly that and probably like 30 more seconds of the film in other places felt like they were to arbitrarily raise the age rating on a film that could've otherwise been quite appropriate for much younger audiences, particularly with the messages that this film has. Same for a lot of the setting stuff - everything to do with the multiverse crap is precisely that, and I don't want to ever see it in any property at any time literally ever because of how atrociously stupid that garbage is, but for this particular one, again my brain just turned off and it was somehow okay...I was thankfully more focused on what they were trying to convey than the details. It doesn't happen often for me, but it did here, and I think that deserves special note.

Spoiler

I think this is a film where different people can take away different but similar messages. The most powerful part of the film for me was not really to do with either Evelyn or Waymond (although I really liked theirs as well), but rather their daughter, whose desire for death and nothingness felt like the perfect stand-in for my own sister who killed herself. I actually teared up a few times throughout this film, which is worth a lot...again, especially for a wacky pile of complete nonsense like this film is on a surface level.

On a side-note, I have no idea who Michelle Yeoh is, because I have never seen her in a single other thing that is not this. She looked and acted like middle-aged Asian mom to me, and that was great. Similarly, I did not realize it was Ke Huy Quan as Waymond, but I was not surprised to learn that they originally wrote this movie for Jackie Chan, because that's what Alpha!Waymond literally reminded me of, and I was pretty okay with him being basically his sweetheart Short Round self the rest of the time.

Did not mind the hot dog fingers - another friend of mine that watched this said that was awful and revolting as well, but I didn't think anything of it at all and even found it a little amusing, particularly because that reality was also the one where Evelyn and Deirdre were apparently in love with each other which made for a ridiculous juxtaposition.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

Very sorry to read that @Bartimaeus... I knew there was a story behind you taking care of your nieces, but didn't imagine it was that heartbreaking.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Except for the scene that KP mentioned in reply in earlier to me - that was too much.

I'm sure the characters involved thought it was too much as well.

Spoiler

I think the film works for me because it embraces just how silly and stupid multiverse **** is. I mean a universe where people have hotdogs for hands or where the main character is a sign twirler is much better than protagonist but evil that we see in a lot of these things. In a lot of ways this movie takes a lot of wacky ideas that shouldn't work, but it somehow makes them work. And the emotional bombs dropped somehow glue it together to be amazing.

I didn't know that about your sister, I'm really not sure what to say here because sorry doesn't feel like enough.

 

[LadyCrimson]

I've been interested in that Everywhere and that Nic Cage movie but at the moment I think I can only "buy" it on Amazon Prime, it's not for rent yet or otherwise available on the few streaming services I have. Maybe in couple weeks.

[majestic]

11 hours ago, Sarex said:

As I said I agree that the action part could have done with some trimming, but to me it was not a deal breaker.

edit

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Did you read what I asked Bartimaeus? Did it remind you of the last part of

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If you mean the talk between Shinji and Gendo at the end in the negative universe, then kind of, yes.

There's something I haven't mentioned yet, I never could shake the feeling during the entire film that it is somewhat derivative of other concepts. I felt like I've seen all of that before, or read about it, or played games with such plot points. I can't really give any specifics though.

 

[Bartimaeus]

I can't sleep an iota, so why not? The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. I couldn't remember a single material word that majestic said about it besides something about the bees from the Wicker Man, so I figured now was an appropriate time - plus, I enjoyed his last film Pig. I have no idea if that was his last film, but I'm pretending it was. Also, that's no offense to @majestic's writing skill that I can't remember anything he said except for the bees and the fact that he really liked it, I'm just bad at absorbing information about things I don't immediately care about right this second - it's what helps make me resistant to the effects of most spoilers.

Spoiler

It was a pretty fun and cute movie.

 

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I can't sleep an iota, so why not? The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. I couldn't remember a single material word that majestic said about it besides something about the bees from the Wicker Man, so I figured now was an appropriate time - plus, I enjoyed his last film Pig. I have no idea if that was his last film, but I'm pretending it was. Also, that's no offense to @majestic's writing skill that I can't remember anything he said except for the bees and the fact that he really liked it, I'm just bad at absorbing information about things I don't immediately care about right this second - it's what helps make me resistant to the effects of most spoilers.

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It was a pretty fun and cute movie.

The film is a great example of what it takes for me to enjoy a comedic focus in a film. No or at least limited slapstick, not related to anything supposedly romantic, although we could argue that Nic and Javi have quite the bromance going on, and occasionally absurd, even if they shamelessly stole the joke with the wall from Hot Shots 2. It still works because it has this wonderful interaction attached to it. Plus there's this whole meta level that makes the film generally interesting for me, but it is not the entire movie.

Spoiler

The scene where Javi and Nic drive out to the cliffs expecting to have to kill each other is going to be my character interaction highlight of the year. Swapping shoes, the tone, atmosphere, the acting, man, this was just one of those moments where everything comes together and simply works.

Might want to try 7 Psychopaths too if you haven't already. That one's a little more out there though. Not sure, didn't really expect you to enjoy this enough to call it a fun and cute movie, but things have been weird enough recently in this thread. Who knows.  

[Lexx]

Guys, I watched Paddington 2 and it was great.