Next run planning (Vailian)

[summatsupeer]

Finished my Príncipi Monk+Rogue Mortar run so whatever I do next has high standards to follow and after some ideas/inspiration. POTD with upscaling.

Rules for this run are:

• Pallegina must be in crew since siding with Vailian Republics.
• No characters/classes Pallegina won't get on with. No Xoti, Maia, Tekehu, Vatnir and player character shouldn't be Druid/Priest.
• I'd like Ydwin in the crew since don't use her often. 
• Preferably a melee player character.

I think Pallegina and Ydwin have some good synergies (Morningstar + Herald debuffs for Ydwins Fortification/Will cipher abilities) though not sure how great Ydwin will be as damage dealer since her Might is 10 so thinking Cipher+Rogue to help boost the damage?  Interested in ideas for player character and rounding out the crew, my "go to" would be Eder and Aloth but could mix it up.  If I went with them then i'd be looking at a more off-tank type class but i'd like to avoid using Rogue as part of a MC this time.  Could be fun to try something a bit more mobile, I don't tend to use Charge/Jump etc except for Escape to get away when needed.

[Boeroer]

I guess you are looking for that typical vailian/italian renaissance vibe?

Ever thought about a Troubadour/Psion? Imo it's a fun combo to play and very effective, too (it even won an Ultimate achievement). It also fits well into Vailian background I guess. It's not melee of course... Psions don't like melee. But it could be cool & fitting with a Beguiler instead - who can go melee no problem and will generate focus from weapon attacks and also from casting deception spells. Not that much mobility though.

Then... what about Trickster/Soulblade? Best would be with the fail Sun & Moon + the buckler Tuotilo's Palm, but a Rapier + modal is also great for Soul Annihilation since you won't miss much - and later using the Spider's Fang rapier is extremely good as a cipher. But it contains a Rogue...

If it's about mobility then a Ranger isn't bad. Evasive Roll is a pretty great mobility skill. As melee Stalker you don't want to get seperated from the AC too much, but there's that handy ability Master's/Furious Call which only cost 1 Bond and results in the AC coming back to you while knocking over and doing a primary attacks to all enemies on the way. So you zip away and then call the AC. I think it's cool. You could combine it with a Cipher for two reasons: first of all zipping behind enemy lines is very nice when you have cast a beam spell to a near enemy or ally before to maximize the number of enemies cought in the beam (this would also work with a Wizard who uses beams of course). Secondly, the ability "Takedown Combo" does +100% dmg to the next attack an enemy receives. Then it gets removed. Funnily enough it doesn't get removed when you hit the enemy with Soul Ignition or Disintegration. It then stays thee for the whole duration and gives every tick of he DoT +100% damage! Very cool combo. Since both Takedown Combo as well as both DoTs target fortitude it's benefical if there's a Morning Star + modal involved (character themselves or in the  party).

I sometimes use a melee Wizard with a club + modal & Miasma to lower Will defenses into the ground and then summon Draining Touch & an Essential Phantom so that it attacks my enemies with the draining superfist that targets Will instead of deflection. One can combine with any martial class - I liked Unbroken because the low Will could also be used to trigger disengagement attacks via Ryngrim's spells - which really hurts when you are an Unbroken + an Essential Phantom with glowing fist. Perfectly fine to tank and/or offtank and still do respectable melee damage. And of course be able to cast a bunch of useful spells, too. Mobility comes with Deletrious Alacrity of Motion makes you superfast and immune to engagement. 

Hm, what else comes to mind that could have a vailian vibe?

Darcozzi of course. Should get along with Pallegina just fine. Arkane Knight maybe? Always a good combo. And Darcozzi's flame shield stacks with Wizard's Flame shield.
Or Darcozzi/Forbidden Fist? Swift Flurry with Rännig's Wrath + modal + Tuotilo's Plam+modal + Flames of Devotion + Ring of Focused Flames? Slow attacks but very high ACC on FoD so Swift FLurry/Hearbeat Drumming Procs may occur often. At the same time pretty great defenses and self heal via Lay on Hands to counter Forbidden Fist ability which is a perfect crush backup for your piercing Rapier.

Now I'm out of ideas...   

 

  

[Elric Galad]

Ydwin working with Vailian is a big plus.

Fassina IS a Vailian, so you should consider her. 

[summatsupeer]

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I guess you are looking for that typical vailian/italian renaissance vibe?

Yeah thats the idea, someone from there and would get on with Pallegina.  My builds typically aren't min/max, if I wanna wear a tricorn hat i'll wear one even if a helmet would be better for the build

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Ever thought about a Troubadour/Psion? Imo it's a fun combo to play and very effective, too (it even won an Ultimate achievement). It also fits well into Vailian background I guess. It's not melee of course... Psions don't like melee. But it could be cool & fitting with a Beguiler instead - who can go melee no problem and will generate focus from weapon attacks and also from casting deception spells. Not that much mobility though.

I've not really seen this type of build before to of considered it.  I use the Cipher or Rogue classes a lot so hoping something different with interest me.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Then... what about Trickster/Soulblade? Best would be with the fail Sun & Moon + the buckler Tuotilo's Palm, but a Rapier + modal is also great for Soul Annihilation since you won't miss much - and later using the Spider's Fang rapier is extremely good as a cipher. But it contains a Rogue...

As above contains both Rogue and Cipher.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

If it's about mobility then a Ranger isn't bad. Evasive Roll is a pretty great mobility skill. As melee Stalker you don't want to get seperated from the AC too much, but there's that handy ability Master's/Furious Call which only cost 1 Bond and results in the AC coming back to you while knocking over and doing a primary attacks to all enemies on the way. So you zip away and then call the AC. I think it's cool. You could combine it with a Cipher for two reasons: first of all zipping behind enemy lines is very nice when you have cast a beam spell to a near enemy or ally before to maximize the number of enemies cought in the beam (this would also work with a Wizard who uses beams of course). Secondly, the ability "Takedown Combo" does +100% dmg to the next attack an enemy receives. Then it gets removed. Funnily enough it doesn't get removed when you hit the enemy with Soul Ignition or Disintegration. It then stays thee for the whole duration and gives every tick of he DoT +100% damage! Very cool combo. Since both Takedown Combo as well as both DoTs target fortitude it's benefical if there's a Morning Star + modal involved (character themselves or in the  party).

Never played a melee Ranger before so could be different, whilst involves Cipher it could be different enough.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I sometimes use a melee Wizard with a club + modal & Miasma to lower Will defenses into the ground and then summon Draining Touch & an Essential Phantom so that it attacks my enemies with the draining superfist that targets Will instead of deflection. One can combine with any martial class - I liked Unbroken because the low Will could also be used to trigger disengagement attacks via Ryngrim's spells - which really hurts when you are an Unbroken + an Essential Phantom with glowing fist. Perfectly fine to tank and/or offtank and still do respectable melee damage. And of course be able to cast a bunch of useful spells, too. Mobility comes with Deletrious Alacrity of Motion makes you superfast and immune to engagement. 

I have planned to try a melee wizard but thats an interesting combination.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Hm, what else comes to mind that could have a vailian vibe?

Darcozzi of course. Should get along with Pallegina just fine. Arkane Knight maybe? Always a good combo. And Darcozzi's flame shield stacks with Wizard's Flame shield.
Or Darcozzi/Forbidden Fist? Swift Flurry with Rännig's Wrath + modal + Tuotilo's Plam+modal + Flames of Devotion + Ring of Focused Flames? Slow attacks but very high ACC on FoD so Swift FLurry/Hearbeat Drumming Procs may occur often. At the same time pretty great defenses and self heal via Lay on Hands to counter Forbidden Fist ability which is a perfect crush backup for your piercing Rapier.

This sounds interesting, whilst just had Monk as part of my last build i've rarely played them in POE2.  My only concern is having Pallegina and another Paladin together as I always seem to end up Fire heavy then struggle against enemies immune to them.  Especially if Pallegina is a Herald so has option of Aefyllath or Dragon Thrashed though could just user her as debuffer & extra heals.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Now I'm out of ideas...   

Uh Oh... never saw that coming!  Thanks for sharing these ideas.

[summatsupeer]

57 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Ydwin working with Vailian is a big plus.

Fassina IS a Vailian, so you should consider her. 

Ah interesting.  Might have to fit Fassina into the group, though i've never really used her.  As a conjourer she'll have limited debuffs and be mostly self buffing and summoning a weapon for damage (black bow etc)?

That make the group:

1. player character (TBD)
2. Pallegina (Herald - Off-Tank Debuff )
3. Ydwin (Mindstalker - Damage)
4. Fassina (Conjourer Wizard - Damage with few debuffs like Chill Fog)
5. 1 more spot, likely Eder as tank or Konst maybe unless player character is the tank?

Edited March 16, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Boeroer]

7 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

This sounds interesting, whilst just had Monk as part of my last build i've rarely played them in POE2.  My only concern is having Pallegina and another Paladin together as I always seem to end up Fire heavy then struggle against enemies immune to them. 

Maybe Devoted/Forbidden Fist would be an alternative then. Rapier as Devoted weapon, fists/Forbidden Fist as alternative crush damage without any downside. Rännig's Wrath + Tuotilo's Palm, Fair Favor (from Serafen), Devil of Caroc Breastplate with Armored Grace and Abraham as pet (decent armor with almost no recovery penalty), high defenses, high ACC and crit conversion...?

[thelee]

5 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

As a conjourer she'll have limited debuffs and be mostly self buffing and summoning a weapon for damage (black bow etc)?

as a conjurer she still gets some quality debuffs from transmutation/enchantment, which includes a bunch of handy spells like slicken, chill fog, arduous delay of motion, expose vulnerabilities, pull of eora, call to slumber, etc. and of course C O M B U S T I N G    W O U N D S which can be extremely OP in the right setup.

[summatsupeer]

6 minutes ago, thelee said:

as a conjurer she still gets some quality debuffs from transmutation/enchantment, which includes a bunch of handy spells like slicken, chill fog, arduous delay of motion, expose vulnerabilities, pull of eora, call to slumber, etc. and of course C O M B U S T I N G    W O U N D S which can be extremely OP in the right setup.

Oh thanks for the correction, I get the categories mixed up a lot

Combusting wounds was just silly with dual mortars in my last run.

[summatsupeer]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe Devoted/Forbidden Fist would be an alternative then. Rapier as Devoted weapon, fists/Forbidden Fist as alternative crush damage without any downside. Rännig's Wrath + Tuotilo's Palm, Fair Favor (from Serafen), Devil of Caroc Breastplate with Armored Grace and Abraham as pet (decent armor with almost no recovery penalty), high defenses, high ACC and crit conversion...?

This is interesting though I used Devoted recently i've never used Forbidden Fist.  The ability sounds fun but the switch to wound system kind of puts me off, more due to lack of knowledge and experience of using Monks in melee.

Any recommendations on attributes or key abilities to make it work?  Rännig's Wrath being a Rapier I assume means using its modal for more accuracy to get more crits  with things like Swift Fury, Stunning Surge, Heartbeat Drumming?

Edited March 16, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Kaylon]

Personally, with Pallegina and Eder (with Fair Favor ) as frontliners, I would play a ghost heart/ascendant or an arcane archer/ascendant with Frostseeker. I would also pick Aloth for more AoE nukes. For the last spot Ydwin cipher/rogue with firearms could work, but I consider her just average. You could also pick Konstanten as a support/debuffer (with LDV, Spirit Frenzy and The Long Night's Drink...), but in fact anything works at this point.

[summatsupeer]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

Personally, with Pallegina and Eder (with Fair Favor ) as frontliners, I would play a ghost heart/ascendant or an arcane archer/ascendant with Frostseeker. I would also pick Aloth for more AoE nukes. For the last spot Ydwin cipher/rogue with firearms could work, but I consider her just average. You could also pick Konstanten as a support/debuffer (with LDV, Spirit Frenzy and The Long Night's Drink...), but in fact anything works at this point.

Yeah some of the choices are for RP reasons and will make things not as good as they could be.

What is Eder with Fair Favor about?

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

Any recommendations on attributes or key abilities to make it work? 

Forbidden Fist wants maxed Resolve. Might doesn't need to be high. INT can also be rel. mediocre. High Perception is benefical. High DEX as well. I wouldn't drop CON below 10. 

A multiclass Forbidden Fist gets wounds from up to four sources:

1. hostile effects that end. So high RES helps to keep all hostile effects short, including the curse your own Forbidde Fist ability puts on you. With a lot of RES it will be very short. You can combine that with Clarity of Agony and some items to shorten hostile effects even further. Also hostile effects that run out will heal you.
2. Mortification of the Soul. Also works fpr Forbidden Fist Monks.
3. (Enduring) Dance of Death. It works - but for a Monk who's going melee all the time it's not that useful because it ends if you get hit (7 times)
4. Parting Sorrow: if an enemy disengages you get a wound. This also happens when the enemy you engaged dies (the game seems to count dying as unwillingly disengaging )

Most important is 1. The most common way to work with this is using the Forbidden Fist attack a lot but keep the curse supershort. 

High Resolve also leads to high deflection. That stacks with the defense buffs of Tuotilo's Palm and stuff from Fighter like Vigorous Defenses and makes you hard to kill. 

1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

Rännig's Wrath being a Rapier I assume means using its modal for more accuracy to get more crits  with things like Swift Fury, Stunning Surge, Heartbeat Drumming?

   Yes. And the small shield modal as well as Devoted's Disciplined Strikes (+5 PER, 25% hits to crits conversion) can also help with that. 

[Boeroer]

6 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

What is Eder with Fair Favor about?

Fair Favor is a fancy feathered hat that looks cool and fits a shwashbuckling Edér mechanically as well as thematically (if he wants to have that vailian vibes, too).

[summatsupeer]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Forbidden Fist wants maxed Resolve. Might doesn't need to be high. INT can also be rel. mediocre. High Perception is benefical. High DEX as well. I wouldn't drop CON below 10. 

A multiclass Forbidden Fist gets wounds from up to four sources:

1. hostile effects that end. So high RES helps to keep all hostile effects short, including the curse your own Forbidde Fist ability puts on you. With a lot of RES it will be very short. You can combine that with Clarity of Agony and some items to shorten hostile effects even further. Also hostile effects that run out will heal you.
2. Mortification of the Soul. Also works fpr Forbidden Fist Monks.
3. (Enduring) Dance of Death. It works - but for a Monk who's going melee all the time it's not that useful because it ends if you get hit (7 times)
4. Parting Sorrow: if an enemy disengages you get a wound. This also happens when the enemy you engaged dies (the game seems to count dying as unwillingly disengaging )

Most important is 1. The most common way to work with this is using the Forbidden Fist attack a lot but keep the curse supershort. 

High Resolve also leads to high deflection. That stacks with the defense buffs of Tuotilo's Palm and stuff from Fighter like Vigorous Defenses and makes you hard to kill. 

   Yes. And the small shield modal as well as Devoted's Disciplined Strikes (+5 PER, 25% hits to crits conversion) can also help with that. 

Cheers.  Am I right in saying Might and Int increase the damage and time of the curse?  Like how Might increases the damage a Beserker inflicts on themselves... I dislike that so much .  If so I assume I will want to avoid Turning Wheel's extra Int?

I'm a little confused, how does Devoted have a Small Shield modal and Rapier modal? Aren't they limited to one weapon proficiency?

8 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Fair Favor is a fancy feathered hat that looks cool and fits a shwashbuckling Edér mechanically as well as thematically (if he wants to have that vailian vibes, too).

Ahh thanks, I thought there was some obvious weapon I should be giving Eder that I didn't know about.

[Boeroer]

1 minute ago, summatsupeer said:

Cheers.  Am I right in saying Might and Int increase the damage and time of the curse?

Indeed

2 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

 If so I assume I will want to avoid Turning Wheel's extra Int?

The effect of high Resolve, paired with Clarity of Agony, is much more potent than high INT. So it's no problem to take Turning Wheel. Especially if you only took mediocre INT from the start. 

3 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

I'm a little confused, how does Devoted have a Small Shield modal and Rapier modal? Aren't they limited to one weapon proficiency?

You are right. I was still in the Paladin/Forbidden Fist bubble and forgot that Devoted can't have both modals. Well - small shield also works fine without the modal and thae bash counts as unarmed attack (it scales with Transcendent Suffering) so it should't get the Devoted penalty.

[summatsupeer]

Reassessed what I want to play, not going to rule out rogue or cipher as long as its a subclass or MC combo i've not played.

Trickster for Rogue is definitely interesting as never used.  I've used a Soulblade Cipher once or twice, though not with a Rogue (that I remember) so might try your earlier suggestion @Boeroer.

Any other suggestions for fun Trickster (SC or MC) build that fit the theme and crew?  Thinking of a Shadowdancer.... which was my last run!   But with two different subclasses and melee.  Trying to figure out if Forbidden Fist would work well

Edited March 17, 2022 by summatsupeer

[summatsupeer]

Went with Inquisitor (Darcozzi Paladin + Soul Blade Cipher).  For main weapons got the Rapier + modal as recommended but duel wielding currently with Mins Fortune.  Blunt weapons in set 2 are Sun and Moon flail as "accuracy weapon", it gets the Focused Flame ring +10 accuracy when not using Flames of Devotion such as when using the Soul Annihilation, I thought I was being clever and getting +30 when using FoD+SunAndMoon but its just the +20 if I remember correctly since the ring doesn't apply twice (weapon + ability).

Got Eder using WotEP as Swashbuckler with Morning Star as backup that he can also switch to as prep with weapon modal for my Ciphers (Ydwin) single target raw damage abilities.

That means Pallegina is the main tank as Herald and its been a bit of a struggle but just got her into Reckless Brigandine and Cadhu Scalth to up her defences.  I think the main issue is my Inquisitor is the only other character that can heal another and Pallegina was getting interrupted constantly when she's was trying to self cast.  I think I'm through the worst of it, maybe I got a little over levelled compared to gear

[Haplok]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:17 PM, summatsupeer said:

Ah interesting.  Might have to fit Fassina into the group, though i've never really used her.  As a conjourer she'll have limited debuffs and be mostly self buffing and summoning a weapon for damage (black bow etc)?

Why not make Fassina a Sorcerer - for the fantastic party support and great breadth of spells that never run out? Plus countless DOTs that will melt thy enemies.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Haplok