In Rynhaedr's step: what class

[Desmodeus]

Really want to make a build focused around full ice set from Beast of Winter DLC(helm of White void, guardian's plate, Frostfall, Wintertide bullwark)  but not sure which class would make best use of full set. One of my ideas is to go maybe fighter+chanter with focus on afflicting chants to fit the theme but then again, Magran shield look so much more appealing for main tank. Is there any class that will make good use of all 4 items couse by look of it shield is kinda outsider here

[thelee]

honestly imo the full set is kind of an odd fit for a strong character, because they're kinda at cross-purposes with each other. debuffer-types are going to be the ones that really want that +10 acc from the helm, and they're going to be ridiculously punished by having heavy armor and a large shield, the latter basically defeating the point of having the helm. i tend to just split the pieces up amidst my party.

the only chant that would benefit from the +10 acc would be long night, so it wouldn't be that great. (a few invocations do benefit though).

 

if you're just in it for the flavor, maybe a fighter/rogue? fighter has talents that help mitigate the downsides of hte gear (confident aim, armored grace), has a few good abilities that would enjoy the +10 acc help while tanking (mule kick, power strike) and rogue would add more such abilities while also giving you riposte to add on top of the unique large shield retribution (the high deflection from large shield and the unique bonuses would help trigger riposte as well) as well as mobility to use so you can hop around the battle field without having to toggle the large shield modal on/off (which has a cooldown)

Edited February 23, 2022 by thelee

[Kaylon]

Since many bonuses require to be afflicted, the berserker becomes the ideal candidate (his speed bonuses help also with the high recovery of the plate). Overall the ice set seems also to be made for a tank and you should pick another class that has some kind of health regeneration to make the self DOT manageable. I think a paladin steel garrote fits the best this role and Spirit Frenzy/Barbaric Shout can keep enemies afflicted and allow you to also drain health from them. You can also use Grave Calling as backup weapon.

Another possibility would be a street fighter with min resolve and max intellect - use a blunderbuss to afflict himself with a long lasting Powder Burns, then switch to weapon and shield. As a second class you have more freedom here - a black jacket who can switch easily between weapon sets fits well and his Armored Grace reduces greatly the armor recovery.

PS. Also a pale elf fits perfectly here because his racial bonus covers the elemental weakness of the plate.

[Constentin Lévine]

24 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Since many bonuses require to be afflicted, the berserker becomes the ideal candidate

Do you think because of spirit frenzy the helm could benefit for every attacks? I will test it and answer to that

...

Spirit Frenzy doesnt trully add an affliction on hit, but hit an ennmy proc spirit Frenzy, so the initial attack doesnt profit from the Helm + 10acc excepted if the attack cause an affliction, of course. 

Leap daze ennemies, and with that, it is easy to move in despite of the great shield modal. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Boeroer]

Henlooo it is I, the Forbidden Fist!
 

+10 ACC with Helm of the White Void and the Forbidden-Fist attack, Torment's Reach, Stunning Surge or Force of Anguish.

Large Shield stacks well with the maxed RES a FF wants to have and counters the Frenzy malus. Less accuracy but a lot higher survivability.

Enfeebled from the FF attack prolongs hostile effects on enemies by 50%. Turning Wheel adds even more duration. Dispersed Sufferning from Frostfall stacks with all that nicely. 

Combine with Berserker and Footsteps of the Beast: get hobbled by your own drop traps for very short amount of times, get bonuses from being hobbled, get wounds and healing from the many, many short hobbles when they end, get bonuses from being confused, get wounds and healing from ending confusion. Do NOT use Rooting Pain because a confused Berserker/Monk will root-pain themselves (I know from experience ).

Use Parting Sorrow and Barbaric Shout for the added engagement (and +10 ACC for the shaken effect) right before you are about to kill some enemies: more wounds because a dead enemy apparently breaks engagement (we just spre them the disengagment attacks out of respect for the dead I guess ).

 

 

[Kaylon]

51 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Combine with Berserker and Footsteps of the Beast: get hobbled by your own drop traps for very short amount of times, get bonuses from being hobbled, get wounds and healing from the many, many short hobbles when they end, get bonuses from being confused, get wounds and healing from ending confusion.

That happens only if you move constantly your character which becomes boring very fast (without mentioning you can trigger disengagement attacks...). 

 

[hansvedic]

So I have an alternate idea: high-defense caster tank who is at least partially a priest or maybe a wizard.

I did some brief testing and found the following:

The 1-per rest abilities that afflict you (thus activating the "while afflicted" benefits) and give you a beneficial effect (e.g. the one that gives you weakened and action speed) are classified as positive effects. This means they can be extended by Salvation of Time or Wall of Draining, but unfortunately do not qualify as a "hostile effect" for the purpose of activating the shield's extra shield deflection. Even so, the fact that the effects are coupled means that you can extend BOTH the affliction and the coupled positive effect without having to get afflicted by an enemy!

Furthermore, the Blunderbuss modal can give us a Perception affliction which is not coupled with a positive effect. So in those rare fights where you want that extra shield deflection (boost to both reflex and deflection), you can still make it happen.

With a wizard, especially an Arcane Knight, you could become incredibly tanky (super-high reflex and deflection, great armor rating, and still decent accuracy with those spells buffed by the Helm of the White Void. I presume that the shield deflection should stack with other sources of generic deflection, but I need to test that. If it does, you can effectively get 40 shield deflection (12 base + 8 legendary + 10 from 5 misses + 10 from activated ability). EDIT: It does stack!

Personally, I'm more partial to trying maybe a Zealot Riposte build with Adept Evasion to become practically untouchable by Reflex & Deflection attacks (so long as I'm not dampened or cleansed). Could go Streetfighter/Wael with Gouging Strike and Gaze of the Adragan as the main attacks benefitting from the Helm, although I think a Trickster/<pick a priest> is more what I would pick for the set.

One thing to be aware of, however, is that the per-rest abilities are active and thus will not stack with other active bonuses.
 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by hansvedic

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, Kaylon said:

That happens only if you move constantly your character which becomes boring very fast

 

Having the option of stepping left and right (or back and forth) at times when you not have enough wounds and/or need to heal up is boring? I mean it's not that you have to run around all the time. The confusion doesn't even last very long due to high RES and Clarity of Agony.

I don't think it's generally boring or tedious to have the option of getting wounds and healing at will, while it also grants you defense bonuses from items and Crucible oS - but everybody's different I guess.

8 hours ago, Kaylon said:

without mentioning you can trigger disengagement attacks...

 

But... you did mention it.

[Kaylon]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Having the option of stepping left and right (or back and forth) at times when you not have enough wounds and/or need to heal up is boring? I mean it's not that you have to run around all the time. The confusion doesn't even last very long due to high RES and Clarity of Agony.

To counter the self damage and be at least self sustainable you have to move around all the time and heal. If you need other characters to work for you instead of doing damage it's not very efficient. 

PS. You're not confused by the boots, you're hobbled.

[Boeroer]

You suggested a Berserker yourself. Berserkers always need characters working for them at higher levels because the self dmg is too high. The added option (!) of healing yourself with Footsteps otB AND getting lots of wounds and having the option of crucible oS + armor bonus at will in the process cannot be a drawback.

You are confused by Frenzy. The confusion wears off very quickly with high RES and Clarity of Agony (if you wish). The confusion duration is not tied to the frenzy duration, only the self dmg is. 

You can trigger Frenzy, get some wounds+healing+defense boost via confusion+footsteps - and when the confusion runs out you just have the normal behavior like any other wearer of those boots would have. I think it fits the whole theme of the item set perfectly well in both "vibe" and mechanics - but you may think differently.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You suggested a Berserker yourself. Berserkers always need characters working for them at higher levels because the self dmg is too high. The added option (!) of healing yourself with Footsteps otB AND getting lots of wounds and having the option of crucible oS + armor bonus at will in the process cannot be a drawback.

Berserker/fighter, berserker/steel garrote, berserker/skald can be built to be self sustained at any level and don't need special healing at all. 

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You are confused by Frenzy. The confusion wears off very quickly with high RES and Clarity of Agony (if you wish). The confusion duration is not tied to the frenzy duration, only the self dmg is. 

You can trigger Frenzy, get some wounds+healing+defense boost via confusion+footsteps - and when the confusion runs out you just have the normal behavior like any other wearer of those boots would have. I think it fits the whole theme of the item set perfectly well in both "vibe" and mechanics - but you may think differently.

Then it's even worse than I thought, because the point of going berserker is to stay afflicted the entire fight in order to benefit from the bonuses of the set and the FF goes against that.

Also I don't even see the point of mentioning confusion in the heal/wounds discussion because Frenzy isn't something you can spam for free and use as a source of wounds and heals. 

[thelee]

18 hours ago, hansvedic said:

Personally, I'm more partial to trying maybe a Zealot Riposte build with Adept Evasion to become practically untouchable by Reflex & Deflection attacks (so long as I'm not dampened or cleansed). Could go Streetfighter/Wael with Gouging Strike and Gaze of the Adragan as the main attacks benefitting from the Helm, although I think a Trickster/<pick a priest> is more what I would pick for the set.

streetfighter would help mitigate the effects of having heavy armor if you can keep up blunderbuss or distracted (or just dive in and get flanked). sparkcrackers works great here and can last a long time, as long as your will isn't very high; you'd have to tank resolve, which hurts riposte but having a large shield that can scale to legendary makes up for it; notably sparkcrackers also benefits from the helm.

trickster is nice, especially early on, and repulsive visage would be very nice to spam. if you go that route a skaen priest would give you some extra rogue-like abilities sparing you some guile in combat, while still giving you same priest versatility (salvation of time especially); you wouldn't need as much of wael's defleciton since you can spam mirror image. i would still personally lean towards streetfighter because heavy armor without something like armored grace + other speed passives is going to be quite a hit for your action economy for wanting to DPS, and your DPS is already hurt by having a large shield (though escape, shadowing beyond, mirror image, arcane veil, llengrath's deflection, etc. all have 0 recovery so those would be OK)

Edited February 24, 2022 by thelee

[Constentin Lévine]

48 minutes ago, thelee said:

sparkcrackers works great here and can last a long time, as long as your will isn't very high;

For this part, make another character to equip Squid's Grasp without the enchantement that remove the Calmo Curse will help : -50 will for the team until you switch back to usual weapon set for the time that Sparkcrakers explode is like +50acc for this one (+60 with the helm)

[hansvedic]

15 minutes ago, thelee said:

streetfighter would help mitigate the effects of having heavy armor if you can keep up blunderbuss or distracted (or just dive in and get flanked). sparkcrackers works great here and can last a long time, as long as your will isn't very high; you'd have to tank resolve, which hurts riposte but having a large shield that can scale to legendary makes up for it; notably sparkcrackers also benefits from the helm.

trickster is nice, especially early on, and repulsive visage would be very nice to spam. if you go that route a skaen priest would give you some extra rogue-like abilities sparing you some guile in combat, while still giving you same priest versatility (salvation of time especially); you wouldn't need as much of wael's defleciton since you can spam mirror image. i would still personally lean towards streetfighter because heavy armor without something like armored grace + other speed passives is going to be quite a hit for your action economy for wanting to DPS, and your DPS is already hurt by having a large shield (though escape, shadowing beyond, mirror image, arcane veil, llengrath's deflection, etc. all have 0 recovery so those would be OK)

Streetfighter is certainly powerful and a good choice; that being said, I was imagining a character who is first and foremost a tank and buffer (priest spells), with debuffing and damage being a bit secondary. With Riposte and Gouging Strike, one can be more of a passive damage dealer, but still deal damage.

[Desmodeus]

Ok, finally have ability to write normal post(damn my ISP)!

On 2/23/2022 at 8:47 PM, Boeroer said:

+10 ACC with Helm of the White Void and the Forbidden-Fist attack, Torment's Reach, Stunning Surge or Force of Anguish.

Large Shield stacks well with the maxed RES a FF wants to have and counters the Frenzy malus. Less accuracy but a lot higher survivability.

Enfeebled from the FF attack prolongs hostile effects on enemies by 50%. Turning Wheel adds even more duration. Dispersed Sufferning from Frostfall stacks with all that nicely. 

Combine with Berserker and Footsteps of the Beast: get hobbled by your own drop traps for very short amount of times, get bonuses from being hobbled, get wounds and healing from the many, many short hobbles when they end, get bonuses from being confused, get wounds and healing from ending confusion. Do NOT use Rooting Pain because a confused Berserker/Monk will root-pain themselves (I know from experience ).

Use Parting Sorrow and Barbaric Shout for the added engagement (and +10 ACC for the shaken effect) right before you are about to kill some enemies: more wounds because a dead enemy apparently breaks engagement (we just spre them the disengagment attacks out of respect for the dead I guess ).

Thats feels a bit too MAD top be fair xD Max resolve, high int, high might, high hp high per... how working stats would look like?

On 2/24/2022 at 3:35 PM, Kaylon said:

Berserker/fighter, berserker/steel garrote, berserker/skald can be built to be self sustained at any level and don't need special healing at all. 

I was thinking about chanter as second class myself, though I was thinking a bit more toward troubadour.

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

Thats feels a bit too MAD top be fair xD Max resolve, high int, high might, high hp high per... how working stats would look like?

INT doesn't need to be that high because you will get Duality of Mortal Presence (+10) or Enlightened Agony (+5). MIG doesn't need to be that high because you get Frenzy (+5). CON doesn't need to be high because you get Frenzy (+5). High PER isn't mandatory either (but not bad as player character). Besides maxed RES I think a rel. balanced attribute spread would work just fine. 

It's a pretty suicidal combo bc. of Frenzy self dmg + Forbidden Fist self damage AND you don't even profit from self dmg like vanilla Monk/Helwalker/Nalpasca would - until you get Footsteps of the Beast.

6 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

I was thinking about chanter as second class myself, though I was thinking a bit more toward troubadour.

Berserker/Chanter is cool as well. Skald profits a bit from the increased crit rating of the Berserker and the low-cost offensive invocations, Troubadour is better later, once you get Many Lives Pass By and can combine confusion with skelly-kills for Blood Thirst and Dispersed Suffering (from Frostfall) etc. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

The berserker/skald can also use the Grave Calling trick (I found killing a skelly every 6s is optimal for your frame rate). He can use Blightheart trick too... And of course he can just mix melee and invocations.