The All Things Political Topic - Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Iirc, you were born in the UK? Dont they already provide UHC and UFE? How are they doing it?

I was born in SA but they do have stimulus, its called the dole, in the UK for the unemployed or people unable to work  but you dont get it unless you cant work. Its not designed for people to not work and live off the state and people dont have a great quality of life on it but you do get free housing but its small flats and what they call council housing  

And you can ask @Raithe about it, people abuse it

But the UK economic strength is created by the high numbers of people who work and contribute....not people living off the dole so its not a universal stimulus like the proposals around UBI

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z86vxfr/revision/2

Edited February 16, 2022 by BruceVC

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Tax, tax, tax! Well simply tax ourselves into prosperity.

It worked for the US really well i the 50s, why wouldn't it work now? 

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Keyrock said:

90%? What magical utopia are you living in? It's probably closer to 98 or 99%.

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/top-1-own-321-total-wealth-bottom-50-own-25

[Gfted1]

13 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

its called the dole

"Dole" is the equivalent to the US "unemployment insurance".

7 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

It worked for the US really well i the 50s, why wouldn't it work now?

Thats what Im saying. It wont hit me, tax the fatcats!

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/top-1-own-321-total-wealth-bottom-50-own-25

So its not as bad as everyone keeps saying, good to know 

[Hurlshort]

It cracks me up that people still worry about poor folks taking advantage of welfare, the dole, or whatever you want to call it, when the wealth disparity is insane. The middle class isn't struggling because someone is getting too many food stamps. 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

"Dole" is the equivalent to the US "unemployment insurance".

Thats what Im saying. It wont hit me, tax the fatcats!

Sorry I thought we were talking about UBI (universal basic income grant ) 

Do you mind using the full name of these social programs  so I know exactly what you mean because they called different things in different countries 

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

It cracks me up that people still worry about poor folks taking advantage of welfare, the dole, or whatever you want to call it, when the wealth disparity is insane. The middle class isn't struggling because someone is getting too many food stamps. 

I dont think anyone would argue with you but the concern is the abuse you see where people dont want to work and contribute towards the state and they happy to live off social  grants

 

[Gfted1]

6 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry I thought we were talking about UBI (universal basic income grant )

Youre right, thats what were talking about. Universal Basic Income isnt meant to replace working for a living, its intended as a supplement to peoples earned income. For example, my lord and savior Andrew Yang, proposed $1k/month/adult. Of course nobody can live off that alone, but it would greatly improve my QoL (quality of life).

UBI = universal basic income

UHC = universal health care

UFE = universal free education

UFH = universal free housing

All inalienable human rights. Well maybe not education, but 3 hots, a cot and shots certainly are.

[BruceVC]

32 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

It worked for the US really well i the 50s, why wouldn't it work now? 

Before you can ask " will it work " you have to ask " what are you trying to achieve" 

So what do you want to achieve by taxing the 1%, do you want to end inequality through UBI ?

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Youre right, thats what were talking about. Universal Basic Income isnt meant to replace working for a living, its intended as a supplement to peoples earned income. For example, my lord and savior Andrew Yang, proposed $1k/month/adult. Of course nobody can live off that alone, but it would greatly improve my QoL (quality of life).

UBI = universal basic income

UHC = universal health care

UFE = universal free education

UFH = universal free housing

All inalienable human rights. Well maybe not education, but 3 hots, a cot and shots certainly are.

Okay I see, it makes sense now 

The risk is still their because what if  someone is unemployed or doesn't want to work?Should someone who isnt interested in working and contributing get all these benefits. Thats why in the UK they try to monitor and manage the unemployment benefits ...its not for free loaders 

Because their is no risk if your country can afford that as long as the majority of people are still working 

[Gfted1]

Here in the US there a finite amount of time that you can be on the dole. So you cant just go your whole life receiving unemployment checks. Im not sure about other countries though.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

Here in the US there a finite amount of time that you can be on the dole. So you cant just go your whole life receiving unemployment checks. Im not sure about other countries though.

Makes sense but if the US implemented UBI like you guys are talking about it would be life?

[Raithe]

These days in the UK it's called "Universal Credit" with a changeable rate that's constantly being monitored depending on your needs and what you're doing to satisfy certain conditions.

Depending on what your savings are, if you own or rent a place, if you have dependents, if you're married, etc. All change how much income you get from it.

Also, if you're claiming because you're on the job hunt there are things like regular appointments with a job coach and a journal to keep filled out with what you're doing to find work. They try to help you (depending on how jaded and senior the job coach is), and once a certain point of time is passed they will roughly tell you to stop looking for the job you want and just to take any basic level job.  There's stages to it.  Stop looking for permanent jobs at the next stage, start looking for short term contracts, start looking for lower level roles, start looking for the job as a shelf-stacker at the local supermarket...

There are all sorts of hoops to jump through and evidence you need to show to claim more or other benefits. But yes, there are people that have managed to steal small fortunes, but the struggle to get the basics can still be there for the majority of people going through the process.

If you're claiming for sickness reasons, again, there needs to be evidence from the Doctors, x amount of time to recover, if its a permanent thing there can be continuing evidence needed. There can also be issues depending on how much NI (national insurance) you have paid in yourself over the years before you start to claim anything.

It is a deeply threaded morass these days.

If anyone is reaaally interested: https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit

Edited February 16, 2022 by Raithe

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Raithe said:

These days in the UK it's called "Universal Credit" with a changeable rate that's constantly being monitored depending on your needs and what you're doing to satisfy certain conditions.

Depending on what your savings are, if you own or rent a place, if you have dependents, if you're married, etc. All change how much income you get from it.

Also, if you're claiming because you're on the job hunt there are things like regular appointments with a job coach and a journal to keep filled out with what you're doing to find work. They try to help you (depending on how jaded and senior the job coach is), and once a certain point of time is passed they will roughly tell you to stop looking for the job you want and just to take any basic level job.  There's stages to it.  Stop looking for permanent jobs at the next stage, start looking for short term contracts, start looking for lower level roles, start looking for the job as a shelf-stacker at the local supermarket...

There are all sorts of hoops to jump through and evidence you need to show to claim more or other benefits. But yes, there are people that have managed to steal small fortunes, but the struggle to get the basics can still be there for the majority of people going through the process.

If you're claiming for sickness reasons, again, there needs to be evidence from the Doctors, x amount of time to recover, if its a permanent thing there can be continuing evidence needed. There can also be issues depending on how much NI (national insurance) you have paid in yourself over the years before you start to claim anything.

It is a deeply threaded morass these days.

If anyone is reaaally interested: https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit

Thanks Raithe, I appreciate the feedback and details. Very interesting post 

 

[Malcador]

46 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I dont think anyone would argue with you but the concern is the abuse you see where people dont want to work and contribute towards the state and they happy to live off social  grants

 

They should just incorporate, then it'd be perfectly fine.

Still waiting to see what they do with the truckers in Ottawa, they are handing out flyers telling them to essentially GTFO, protestors seem to ignore it.  The way people are ranting about this you think the next step would be Hellfire missiles raining down on them, but I'm guessing they'll try to kettle small groups. 

[Gfted1]

26 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Makes sense but if the US implemented UBI like you guys are talking about it would be life?

I wish! But it probably wouldnt survive the next incoming administration.

[Sarex]

 

[BruceVC]

44 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I wish! But it probably wouldnt survive the next incoming administration.

Do you want to know something scary, 28 million South Africans live on social grants which is 46% of our population

They receive per month the equivalent to $135\month as a maximum amount because their are different categories and somehow they survive. Imagine trying to survive on $135 per month 

https://businesstech.co.za/news/budget-speech/470788/social-grants-in-south-africa-will-increase-by-less-than-inflation-mboweni/

 

 

[Malcador]

4 minutes ago, Sarex said:

 

Well, or the Yugoslav wars in general (for fun I mention these conflicts to my Serb & Croat acquaintances and invariably a flame war erupts).

[Gfted1]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Imagine trying to survive on $135 per month

That would barely cover one week of groceries for me.

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Sarex said:

 

Sarex two wrongs dont make a right, I can understand your apprehension and or mistrust of the West because of how Serbia was treated but the worlds a different place now and the reality of Ukraine is very different to the wars in the Balkans

You the only person on this forum whose  support of Russia in this Ukraine crisis   really makes sense  because of the history of how Serbia was treated. I may not agree with the support for Russia  but I do understand and if I was Serbian I would probably feel  the same way 

[Gfted1]

I cant imagine 46% of the SA population is homeless, so how do they pay for rent / utilities / etc?

[Zoraptor]

Own a corrugated iron shack. Have a dozen people living in it. Don't have power (or jack the lines to get free power). Get water from public access. That's how much of the world's population still lives.

[Malcador]

This invasion of Ukraine is the Star Citizen of geopolitics.