Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 3

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

What's the problem with that quest?

You need to discover a location in Act 3 to be able to do the quest. If you don't, the location you need to get to doesn't show up despite the entry in your journal. There seems to be a quest associated with the Act 3 location in question, but I didn't get it even though I did the standard RPG talk to everyone routine. Maybe because I went Azata and 

Spoiler

hit Areelu's lab early. It looks like the Old Mines are right next to it and I never went back to that area after doing the lab.

Based on hearsay, the quest is a Fallout reference that locks in TB and tosses mobs with huge will saves at you. I don't think I missed much.

Anyways I just did the Azata Act 5 quest and kicked the bad guy off my lawn.

[Chairchucker]

11 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Well my cg azata made it out of the abyss and

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Camellia attacked me at the end of her personal quest because I didn't want to massacre the servants. I think it's bold that Owlcat made one of their waifu baits into an irredeemable monster, but it's hard to justify keeping her around unless you're evil or really need a dodge tank.

This is turning out to be a completionist run, but it looks like I won't be able to do the quest A Refuge from the Present.  Apparently it's a backer quest that is not good though.

 

There is, IMO, no reason for that character to survive until act 4 in any good aligned run.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

11 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

There is, IMO, no reason for that character to survive until act 4 in any good aligned run.

I needed the dodge tank.

[Gromnir]

IF we were to keep the character in question alive, it would not be 'cause o' tankiness, though (unnamed) is likely the best companion for the role. animal companions tank as well or better than any o' the joinable companion characters. leopard and boars is ideal choices if you feel you need a genuine tank. velociraptors is just plain weird as they end up with some o' the best endgame stats o' any o' the critters, they got high dex, and with their 14 starting charisma, if you choose per level boosts to Clever Girl's umd skill (sue us,) your velociraptor will be able to cast any o' the unique personal buffs from scrolls. yes, a wotr velociraptor may use scrolls. and if an animal companion does die, which is unlikely save boss battles or perhaps if you are playing on unfair, then the animal companion is a rest away from being returned to you alive and well. no need to spend diamonds. 

however, we will offer reason(s) for keeping the one who shall not be named alive:

1) a naïve belief the writers were gonna do...

Spoiler

more than crazy

am not gonna delve as doing so requires spoilers, but no... just no.

(result: fail)

or

Spoiler

2) hexes

hexes is genuine fantastic and particular for late game bosses, hexes is almost as effective as a few o' the best cleric domain abilities for buffing and debuffing. via mythic abilities have camellia take an additional spirit (earth) so as to add the OPish metal curse hex and regill might even be willing to keep her alive just as a pragmatic matter. sure, regill would no doubt insist on camellia's eventual pro forma trial and certain execution, and he would likely name the commander and himself as co-conspirators in any murders she committed during the course o' wotr, 'cause that is how regill rolls, but he would be willing to endure her in a way Gromnir never could.  the thing is, regill is unlikely gonna be acting as your moral compass if you are playing good.

(result: fail)

that said, is a crpg and if you pretzel yourself into rationalizing...

Spoiler

crazycake's...

continued existence, is surely no worse than having ember use hellfire rays.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 11, 2022 by Gromnir

[Chairchucker]

Gotta be honest, I've kinda gone off Ember. Now Daeran is my best friend. (Plus he bought me roses, and sometimes a girl likes to be wooed.)

[Sarex]

5 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

I needed the dodge tank.

Just create the same character as a merc.

[Chairchucker]

Personally, I've never made a merc and I never will.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

7 hours ago, Sarex said:

Just create the same character as a merc.

Wouldn't have the same stats and I don't like Mercs.

For any future playthroughs Good characters are kicking Cammy to the curb. Azata has been fun, but I think I'm going to let the game get patched more (only a few big bugs but some consistent performance issues that make playing annoying) and then dive into evil with a Lich.

[Sarex]

33 minutes ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Wouldn't have the same stats and I don't like Mercs.

 

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For any future playthroughs Good characters are kicking Cammy to the curb. Azata has been fun, but I think I'm going to let the game get patched more (only a few big bugs but some consistent performance issues that make playing annoying) and then dive into evil with a Lich.

 

You can edit the save file for any missing points or stats.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 minutes ago, Sarex said:

You can edit the save file for any missing points or stats.

I could, but at this point Seelah and her Horse have come online.

Spoiler

And I did want to see how Cammy's story went.

 

[Gromnir]

horse is more than good enough to tank. for seelah am personal choosing a wolf or dog at difficulty levels up to and including hard. we manage the not horse by means o' a one level dip into oracle or sylvan sorcerer, but is tough to argue with 20 levels o' paladin for seelah, and maybe you don't wanna multiclass. successful trips become less likely on unfair difficulty, so am suspecting we would go with a boar if we had to do a full unfair run, which we don't plan on doing... evar. have played most boss battles on unfair, and dogs, wolves and horses is fine, but not ideal.

speaking o' animal companions, the divine hunter celestial velociraptor animal companion is current benefiting from unlimited uses of smite per day. am assuming all other animal companions for the hunter archetype o' divine hunter benefit similar, but have not tested. regardless, the smite is functional a permanent bonus to attack and damage and while most animal companions receive no real benefit to ab from their smite, the velociraptor is an outlier. 

am finding almost no need to create mercs save as testing fodder seeing as the joinable companions may be multiclassed to fulfill near 100% o' our possible needs, if not perfectly. skald might be a singular exception as a not court poet skald sees a big benefit from the capstone ability and no companion is gonna reach 20 levels o' skald. gonna eventual play a skald character to take advantage o' the unique benefits, though a merc would make more sense. if we play something after aeon, there is a chance we create a merc skald. 

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Nenio's quest is perhaps the worst experience I've had in a videogame. God damn, I will cheat from now on instead of dealing with those damn puzzles.

[ShadySands]

Getting close to the end with my Gold Dragon run. Depending on how busy I am tomorrow I could finish that up then do my next advanced path run. It helps that I've played this game so much that I can just breeze through most of it even while doing other things.

E: I plan on skipping Nenio's quest. I think that's a one time ever kinda quest. Though I think there's a mod that lets you skip all but the final puzzle.

Edited January 12, 2022 by ShadySands

[uuuhhii]

Just now, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Nenio's quest is perhaps the worst experience I've had in a videogame. God damn, I will cheat from now on instead of dealing with those damn puzzles.

owlcat make horrible puzzle for 2 games now

it is amazing how it just keep getting worse

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Nenio's quest is perhaps the worst experience I've had in a videogame. God damn, I will cheat from now on instead of dealing with those damn puzzles.

the elven notes quests has same kinda puzzles and even shares same boss... sorta. is no reason nenio's quest and elven notes couldn't have been functional merged, cutting out extraneous filler material from both. 

regardless, we couldn't help but get the sense enigma were some kinda inside joke directed at crpg completionists. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps am disliking having to miss the goggles of mind control, but owlcat made finding 'em so utter improbable w/o a guide that am s'posing is little difference 'tween finding them and cheating 'em into inventory with a mod. am skipping mods for now, but...

[Sarex]

4 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Nenio's quest is perhaps the worst experience I've had in a videogame. God damn, I will cheat from now on instead of dealing with those damn puzzles.

I almost always google the puzzles.

[uuuhhii]

29 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I almost always google the puzzles.

still horrible after complete three time while watching guide

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Though I think there's a mod that lets you skip all but the final puzzle.

If we're thinking of the same mod, the author said he was going to try to do all the puzzles. But all things considered, the central puzzle is one of the least time consuming.

7 hours ago, Gromnir said:

regardless, we couldn't help but get the sense enigma were some kinda inside joke directed at crpg completionists. 

Based on Kingmaker, I think Owlcat just likes puzzles. Enigma tops House at the Edge of Time for frustration, but at least it's optional.

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

I almost always google the puzzles.

I did too, it's still very long and annoying. Factoring in performance drops, it took me over 3 hours to clear Enigma.

Spoiler

If you want the Secret ending and are not a Demon or Trickster, you need to do the quest to get a crystal. Or you can just cheat.

 

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

 

Based on Kingmaker, I think Owlcat just likes puzzles. Enigma tops House at the Edge of Time for frustration, but at least it's optional.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

If you want the Secret ending and are not a Demon or Trickster, you need to do the quest to get a crystal. Or you can just cheat.

 

'ccording to @Achilles, the excess elven notes were removed from the game.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Gromnir said:

'ccording to @Achilles, the excess elven notes were removed from the game.

HA! Good Fun!

Spoiler

Act 1

Grey Garrison (unique item ID)

 

Act 2

Conundrum Unsolved

Inconspicuous Camp

 

Act 3

Temple of the Good Hunt

Artisan's Tower

Molten Scar ("Page Smeared with Blood & Soot")

Areelu's Lab [1/2]

Areelu's Lab [2/2]

Ivory Sanctum

Heart of Mystery

Core of the Riddle

Sacred Lands

 

Act 4

Nexus Caves

Mage's Tower

 

Act 5

Legacy of the Ancient

Iz

Forgotten Secrets

Final Veil

Enigma

Can't confirm the last one as I've never recruited the furry-bait/anime/j-rpg companion but the rest of them are legit. You can use Toybox to give yourself the "missing" one (I think the tag is "lexicon_page")

[ShadySands]

Finished my GD playthrough. Was interesting if a bit unexciting.

I was able to redeem and turn Areelu to my side. I even spoke for her to Pharasma and she was sent to Nirvana when she finally died. 

Going to reload my beginning of chapter 5 save and try Devil next.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Finished my first playthrough as Azata. All in all it's a major improvement over Kingmaker despite some performance issues and some unpleasant design choices. I will take a break from this and wait for the DLC to drop and mods to expand.

Progression was weird. The XP rate felt roughly double that of Kingmaker (which was good), but mythic was all over the place. I think when I play it again, I'm just going to give myself +1 mythic after the Act 5 mythic quest.

Enemies were very inconsistent. Way to many random spikes and strangely inflated stats. Pre-buffing does shift the balance towards the party, but even then you'd run across someone with ridiculous stats and status conditions that would wreck an unprepared party.

Companions were weird in terms of build. I said this somewhere before but it feels like most companions are built for flavor while the game is balanced around optimization. This can kind of suck if you're not using mercs but honestly I'd just use a respec mod.

Class representation was different than KM, in that there were more full BAB classes and full casters and only one 6th level caster. It's not a bad thing and I liked trying out the new classes, but it was different. I wish Sorcerer and Druid would get some love.

In terms of story I thought it was ok, nothing to write home about though. I did both endings and honestly I think I preferred the normal ending over Ascension. In some ways it feels like you have much more impact by staying mortal (or whatever you are) than you do by becoming a demi-god.

[xzar_monty]

14 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Based on Kingmaker, I think Owlcat just likes puzzles. Enigma tops House at the Edge of Time for frustration, but at least it's optional.

  Reveal hidden contents

If you want the Secret ending and are not a Demon or Trickster, you need to do the quest to get a crystal. Or you can just cheat.

I am very much inclined to think that Owlcat likes to annoy players.

In Act 3, there's a puzzle where a treant (or something like that) separates the main character from the rest of the group. There's a long puzzle ahead -- long in the sense that even if you know what to do, walking through all the necessary steps takes quite some time. After that, there's a battle where you're on your own (at the start) against a mini-boss. After that, there's no real reward, neither in terms of items nor XP.

That felt nasty.

[Gromnir]

am not understanding complaints about effectiveness o' companion starting builds. well, we understand the complaints, but such concerns are not particular compelling or even vague supportable in point o' fact. the wotr companions also available in the pnp ap have better stats in owlcat's version, and given the massive options for customization in the crpg, the companions somehow is flexible enough to cover and excel at a dizzying array o' potential options. want a druid? lann is a fantastic druid. seelah can bard or combat oracle as well as paladin. obvious if you want companions to be capable o' a broader range o' builds, then they is not gonna be comical optimized for a single build, but the problem is your single idealized build for sosiel is likely different from Gromnir's. so, go ahead and build an optimized companion who works for everybody. try. try and do such w/o adding the ridiculous stat bloat people is simultaneous complaining 'bout for wotr adversaries. sure, have daeran start with a minimum sixteen in every ability and refund his starting feats. the a$$imar's (intentional spelling choice)build options increase considerable, but if you wanna indulge that kinda munchkiny itch, then just mod the companions however you wish.

and yeah, you get the succubus so late (relative) that chances are you keep her as a ranger, but we were chuckling when we saw a thread at the owlcat boards where a person were complaining 'bout arueshalae being nerfed or some such. if you can't make an effective sniper outta arueshalae, then you are playing the wrong game. we kinda loathe the arueshalae character, but unless am playing an archer as a main, then is almost self handicapping to keep arue sidelined... which is fine 'cause is other companions who more than adequate fill the void left by an anime inspired cliché.

greybor is also a late(ish) acquisition but have never had difficulty making him effective, even if we gotta abandon his silly dwarven waraxe. 

yeah, is so much trash and junk feats, spells, weapons and archetypes in wotr it is possible to monumental screw your character, which is poor design from our pov, but that is exact what pathfinder is and is what pathfinder fans demand, so...

regardless, name a companion and tell us how with owlcat stat distributions and starting feats the character is not good enough to do an unfair run? am guaranteeing am able to build any companion into unfair/endgame viability. if is good enough for unfair, then are optimization complaints viable?

if you need your perfect oracle/thug/scaled/fist/paladin/loremaster and is clear you ain't gonna squeeze such outta an existing companion, then craft the build with your main or use the merc option. is not as if you weren't given alternatives to companions who is nevertheless highly effective and capable o' impressive build diversity. 

we do have complaints 'bout the writing o' the companions, but such is a whole different issue. 

there is difficulty spikes from optional encounters you have no way o' knowing they is optional. you will feel underpowered at times. there were also a few areas o' the game which were bugged or poor balanced early after release, so it were possible to be relative underpowered at times, especial if you played in september. blackwater, before it were tweaked, were an example o' a curious spike in effective difficulty. every blackwater foe had a massive ac boost and was highly resistant to energy save for electricity. yeah, blackwater enemies had poor wil saves, but is not information you woulda' gleaned before arriving at the location, and even if you were aware, perhaps you hadn't built your nenio to exploit such shortcomings 'cause is literal one freaking area o' the game. bad design. the problem is actual bad encounter design as 'posed to bad companions. 

oh, and for you arue fans,

get a room.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Chairchucker]

Started again, again. Decided to play on Core, see if I can manage. (I'm usually on normal to escape Owlcat's shenanigans.) I'm actually doing OK. Helps that I know exactly where to go in the first act, and how to cheese myself some extra XP using 'only active party members gain XP' until I get a full party. Current character is a two handed fighter going full into elven curve blade. Gonna go trickster and unlock all the absurd trickster feats.