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Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 3


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1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

So now, holy moly, I have made it to where I have to defend the tavern against an onslaught of enemies. It seems to me that if there ever was bad game design, this is it.

1) Irabeth and her folks just stand around, doing nothing.

2) I am defending this tavern against an apparently endless amount of invaders without any indication as to whether something else is going to happen at some point. I've destroyed an awful lot or arsonists, cultists, dretches and what have you, and nothing else seems to happen. Obviosly I'm going to be running out resources, namely hit points, in the end.

Incidentally, I just reached level 5 before this fight began. I have no idea whether this is a good level or not. But the game design surely doesn't look in this battle.

Anyone has any thoughts on this?

our recollection is the tavern battle ends when two objectives is completed:

Spoiler

1) the minotaur dies

2) all the arsonists die.

while it seems like a good strategy to sit behind the barricades and defend, counterintuitive, doing so is a recipe for failure. 

however, during an early prerelease beta (kinda amusing how we now must needs stipulate prerelease) there was a limit in tb mode for the number o' possible turns... was in the 70s or some similar number. am not sure if such still exits or is relevant in rt.

you will continue to get waves o' attackers until objectives is complete.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

So now, holy moly, I have made it to where I have to defend the tavern against an onslaught of enemies. It seems to me that if there ever was bad game design, this is it.

1) Irabeth and her folks just stand around, doing nothing.

2) I am defending this tavern against an apparently endless amount of invaders without any indication as to whether something else is going to happen at some point. I've destroyed an awful lot or arsonists, cultists, dretches and what have you, and nothing else seems to happen. Obviosly I'm going to be running out resources, namely hit points, in the end.

Incidentally, I just reached level 5 before this fight began. I have no idea whether this is a good level or not. But the game design surely doesn't look in this battle.

Anyone has any thoughts on this?

There are fairly predictable entry points for the Arsonists so it pays to fill Nenio/Woljif's level 1 slots with Grease to drop them there. This works well with bringing Lann/Wenduag or a ranged-focus MC. I have heard that Selective Spell Grease trivialises the fight, but in my experience it perfectly suffices simply dropping a normal Grease on the entry points and keeping your melee frontline on Guard mode to mop up anyone who makes their Reflex save and survived the withering hail of arrows.

Quote
"All of life’s lessons come with a price…
We may learn a lesson, and things may get better in the end…
So that’s the trade off…life experience for exhaustion… wisdom for innocence.
There may be a happy ending to our stories…
but we paid for that with little pieces of our souls and we will never get those back."

-Austin Lunn

 

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On 11/12/2021 at 11:00 PM, Gromnir said:
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you will continue to get waves o' attackers until objectives is complete.

I see. This was very helpful, thank you. I was stuck in the process of getting endless waves of attackers, so no wonder I was running out of resources.

Edit: the battle was indeed entirely different now, because I concentrated on the arsonists.

Edited by xzar_monty
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On 11/12/2021 at 2:00 PM, Gromnir said:

our recollection is the tavern battle ends when two objectives is completed:

  Hide contents

1) the minotaur dies

2) all the arsonists die.

while it seems like a good strategy to sit behind the barricades and defend, counterintuitive, doing so is a recipe for failure. 

however, during an early prerelease beta (kinda amusing how we now must needs stipulate prerelease) there was a limit in tb mode for the number o' possible turns... was in the 70s or some similar number. am not sure if such still exits or is relevant in rt.

you will continue to get waves o' attackers until objectives is complete.

HA! Good Fun!

At the start of the encounter Irabeth barks

Spoiler

"Kill the arsonists"

I suppose an incredibly literal player will immediately see that and understand that this is the secret key that unlocks the mystery of this sequence, but for the rest of us...the first time through is the hardest.

I usually put Lann on the roof of the tavern, move Ember and ranged merc to roof of the forge, and let them take the main gate. The rest of the party sets up at the junction of the forge and the storehouse (top of the ramp in a defensive position). Lann high tails it over to other side of the building when the fight is almost over and there are only a couple of high value target left.

Changing the subject (and resurrecting a sub-thread)

Confirmed last night that 10th level spells unlock at level 20, which should be right before the climax encounter of act V and means that the player will have access to them for all of act VI. Much, much better than what I feared would be the case (mythic level 10 unlock)

  • Gasp! 1

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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5 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Confirmed last night that 10th level spells unlock at level 20, which should be right before the climax encounter of act V and means that the player will have access to them for all of act VI. Much, much better than what I feared would be the case (mythic level 10 unlock)

On one hand that's great news for Lich and Angel playthroughs. On the other wtf Owlcat, you're making me need to install a mod to merge the other spellbooks.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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From the store page for the Season Pass one of the confirmed DLCs takes place after the main campaign featuring your MC so as to have an opportunity to have 7-8 more hours with your OP Mythic Rank 10 character. That does beg the question as to what challenge there is left for an MC that did the Ascension ending. Is your now Demi-god(dess) character going through Thanatotic Titans as if they were kobolds?

Edited by Agiel
Quote
"All of life’s lessons come with a price…
We may learn a lesson, and things may get better in the end…
So that’s the trade off…life experience for exhaustion… wisdom for innocence.
There may be a happy ending to our stories…
but we paid for that with little pieces of our souls and we will never get those back."

-Austin Lunn

 

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1 hour ago, Agiel said:

Is your now Demi-god(dess) character going through Thanatotic Titans as if they were kobolds?

Just looking at the stat numbers, the Vavika Vanguard could already do that.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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1 hour ago, KP Cross Split Attack said:

Just looking at the stat numbers, the Vavika Vanguard could already do that.

Not sure if they toned them down, fixed the bug that made them difficult, or if a certain 10th level (defensive) spell is game breaking, but I noticed that I didn't want to punch my monitor once while fighting these in my last playthrough

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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2 hours ago, Achilles said:

Not sure if they toned them down, fixed the bug that made them difficult, or if a certain 10th level (defensive) spell is game breaking, but I noticed that I didn't want to punch my monitor once while fighting these in my last playthrough

other than inherent immunity to fear, nothing provided a reliable defense to the vavakia vanguard's intimidation check. paladins and undead were unaffected, and am s'posing if you had a sooper high wisdom your dc would be too great to be affected by the fear effect, but the intimidation check were not subject to a will save or sr or pretty much any magic defense. is any number o' spells and defenses which grant total and complete immunity to fear, and the mind blank effect of army of heaven were one such spell which were ineffectual gainst the vanguards. if army of heaven works post patch, is likely mind blank works as well, but we would need test such. no good reason why army of heaven would work but mind blank wouldn't, but such simple logic is frequent a flawed guide when discerning the behaviour o' what would appear to be a bug. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps our tactic were/is to fear-lock the vavakia(s) before it(they) could do the same to our party. only a couple o' 'em in the game, but as with so many such brutes, intimidation works 'gainst 'em. 'course the vagaries o' rng could result in us losing imitative with our chosen intimidator and such were the case in our laughing caves encounter on our angel run. had virtual our entire party panicked, but managed to survive even so with a near party wipe. nevertheless were a "wtf" encounter and so we replayed a few times to figure out just what were happening.  thought we were prepared for the threshold encounter then the balor hit us with a chain lightning blast which did 254 damage on a successful save with both protection and resist electricity active. wtf.

pps we initial played battles on core, then went back and played on hard. 

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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12 hours ago, Gromnir said:

other than inherent immunity to fear, nothing provided a reliable defense to the vavakia vanguard's intimidation check. paladins and undead were unaffected, and am s'posing if you had a sooper high wisdom your dc would be too great to be affected by the fear effect, but the intimidation check were not subject to a will save or sr or pretty much any magic defense. is any number o' spells and defenses which grant total and complete immunity to fear, and the mind blank effect of army of heaven were one such spell which were ineffectual gainst the vanguards. if army of heaven works post patch, is likely mind blank works as well, but we would need test such. no good reason why army of heaven would work but mind blank wouldn't, but such simple logic is frequent a flawed guide when discerning the behaviour o' what would appear to be a bug. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps our tactic were/is to fear-lock the vavakia(s) before it(they) could do the same to our party. only a couple o' 'em in the game, but as with so many such brutes, intimidation works 'gainst 'em. 'course the vagaries o' rng could result in us losing imitative with our chosen intimidator and such were the case in our laughing caves encounter on our angel run. had virtual our entire party panicked, but managed to survive even so with a near party wipe. nevertheless were a "wtf" encounter and so we replayed a few times to figure out just what were happening.  thought we were prepared for the threshold encounter then the balor hit us with a chain lightning blast which did 254 damage on a successful save with both protection and resist electricity active. wtf.

pps we initial played battles on core, then went back and played on hard. 

 

I was relying on Seelah's Aura of Courage spell in my second to last past. Per your post, it did not satisfy.

This time through, I had army of heaven and my party was immune to the fear effect (though the other demons in both locations were not)

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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new patch. includes the following:

"Demonslayer didn't get bonus from progression of favorite enemy, but had bonus against neutral outsider - fixed"

finally. has been an issue since the second beta when categories o' demons were split, which ironic made the demonslayer arguable the single worst archetype in wotr.

also, while am suspecting nobody else is concerned, though not addressed in the patch notes, shadow spells is now firing proper with nenio and feyspeakers and even with elemental conversion active. has us considering a respec but our current party is built 'round a sorc as 'posed to a druid so we would need respec multiple party members. also, we will note the will dc for resisting shadow spells is now a thing and the dc does not appear to be generated correct, but is nevertheless an improvement.

will need to see if areelu's angel cloak is working...

edit: angel cloak is still not providing any bonus

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

will need to see if areelu's angel cloak is working...

edit: angel cloak is still not providing any bonus

On one hand, I'm happy to see the list of items that finally got fixed. On the other, I'm saddened by all the the things not listed and the knowledge that many of those items were reported broken in the beta.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Good news: new patch!

Bad news: it breaks text size settings :(

Not sure what "Fixed the Immaculate Petal visuals" is supposed to mean, but I feel like they include it in every set of release notes now (without actually changing anything - still looks like a basic shield, but green rather than blue)

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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4 hours ago, Achilles said:

Good news: new patch!

Bad news: it breaks text size settings :(

Not sure what "Fixed the Immaculate Petal visuals" is supposed to mean, but I feel like they include it in every set of release notes now (without actually changing anything - still looks like a basic shield, but green rather than blue)

"Fixed the mechanics of the Pillar of Life spell to match the description. Playful Darkness is watching you!"

p00p.

HA! Good Fun!

ps pillars should remain a good tactic for playful darkness, but the repeatable damage were an extreme nice bonus though were admitted exploitable. 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

Should be fixed by then, right?

No.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

I enjoy restarting this game but I don't think I'm gonna try a serious playthrough until, like, 2023. Should be fixed by then, right?

if kingmaker is any measure, wotr will never be fixed. is just a matter o' it being fixed enough to be playable, which is an admitted highly subjective threshold. don't hold your breath waiting for fixed. that said, am not sure how one guesses as to whether or not the game is stable enough to be playable. playability, we would argue, is also extreme build dependent. most o' the major quest bugs has been addressed, which is a pleasant shock. however, a few builds is hurt more than a little by bugs which has been 'round since at least the first beta.  at some point waiting is gonna be offering severe diminishing returns, unless yours is a build which is crippled by bugs and if such is the case, you may never see a real fix. 

but am gonna repeat, 'cause am genuine surprised by the admission, most major quest bugs has been addressed by owlcat. new bugs do indeed pop up with each patch, but wotr quests is in a far better place than we woulda' imagined for late november if you had asked us to prognosticate in the month pre-release.

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Owlcat's "community liaison" on reddit dropped a hint here and there that there likely will be some sort of enhanced edition, though it'll probably just be concentrated QoL stuff. I plan to wait for it anyway, as Kingmaker's edition actually did away with some annoyances. Fingers crossed someone does a "Skip Enigma" mod in that time. 🤞

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On 11/24/2021 at 2:59 PM, Gromnir said:

new bugs do indeed pop up with each patch,

*sigh*

is not huge, and am certain is being addressed based on some feedback which 'course doesn't actual happen at their boards, but the following were a minor problem addressed in the last patch:

"Latverk could appear in the streets next to his house again after his death. We... took measures to ensure he stays dead;"

the measures owlcat took were not having him appear at all following conversations with red mask-- no way to advance the quest. problem solved?

anyways, has been suggested a hotfix is forthcoming this week to correct that which owlcat broke.

am going extreme slow through chapter four with our azata, so is other material with which we will be able to distract our self until the aforementioned quest is capable o' completion.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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