Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 3

[Gromnir]

there is a couple crossbows which provide serious aoe damage even w/o cleaving shot, but add a few mythics and the numbers get kinda silly. a crossbow sohei/demonslayer mounted on a dog and taking advantage o' snapshot is one o' those eyeroll builds am likely never to use for reals, but it sure tests powerful.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[bugarup]

So I loaded my Trickster save I didn't touch from...November or October I think, to do some quick respeccing, clicked "Rest" to refill spells...and then in thirty seconds time:

Daeran lugged a bathtub to my room, then went out to the briefing room to inform the PC (who teleported straight from that bathtub probably) he's donating stuff, Beth's identical twin came in to say someone named Ciar has gotten ill, tired barbarian arrived to invite us to some Numerian ruins, drunk scammer sauntered in claiming he's a king and I used Trickster option to pretend I believe him, I got a reminder to visit my wardrobe friends though I've already been there and lied to them all for reasons. Oh, and when I went back to my room the tub was gone.  Guess it's a good thing I waited on the game, eh. Also makes me think I might want to give it another half a year. 

[uuuhhii]

5 minutes ago, bugarup said:

So I loaded my Trickster save I didn't touch from...November or October I think, to do some quick respeccing, clicked "Rest" to refill spells...and then in thirty seconds time:

Daeran lugged a bathtub to my room, then went out to the briefing room to inform the PC (who teleported straight from that bathtub probably) he's donating stuff, Beth's identical twin came in to say someone named Ciar has gotten ill, tired barbarian arrived to invite us to some Numerian ruins, drunk scammer sauntered in claiming he's a king and I used Trickster option to pretend I believe him, I got a reminder to visit my wardrobe friends though I've already been there and lied to them all for reasons. Oh, and when I went back to my room the tub was gone.  Guess it's a good thing I waited on the game, eh. Also makes me think I might want to give it another half a year. 

kingmaker still have so many bug in final version

and many of wotr patch actually make some enemy as broken as the famous vanguard so stick with relative older version are safer sometimes

[ShadySands]

Quote

"The Inevitable Delay"- DLC release date moved to the 3rd of March

Crusaders!

We know you are excited for the Inevitable Excess DLC as much as we are. After all, who wouldn’t want to continue adventures of a high level party with incredible powers and face new monsters and threats?

However, after we ran a number of internal tests before release, we realized that the experience you would get from this new adventure was not mythic enough yet. We wanted you to feel great and powerful, but also face the foes that would be tricky and challenging. Unfortunately, some of the new battle encounters we designed didn’t convey our intentions properly, and we felt like the new enemies and their mechanical features needed more balancing. And so, with a heavy heart, we have to admit that we need additional time before we can let you play this DLC.

Inevitable Excess will be released on the 3rd of March instead of tomorrow. We apologize for the inevitable delay, and hope that you will love the DLC after our team and the denizens of Axis give it their special treatment! Meanwhile, we would like you to meet Valmallos. Those of you who are well-versed in the Pathfinder lore already know him as the keeper of magic, who dwells on the plane of Axis, where your travels will take you in this DLC.

Valmallos is one of the inevitables, mechanical aeons, who were created by axiomites a long time ago to oversee the laws of the universe, and this one is particularly concerned by the threat the Worldwound possesses to the laws of magic. But what part will you play in his plans? You will find out on the 3rd of March. And may your journey be mythic and fun!

To arms!

P.S. Sorry guys! We know it ruins some of the plans you've made for tomorrow, but we decided it inevitably needed that extra bit of polish to make the adventure really exciting. Hoping for your understanding!

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by ShadySands

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"Unfortunately, some of the new battle encounters we designed didn’t convey our intentions properly, and we felt like the new enemies and their mechanical features needed more balancing."

[Gromnir]

could understand if there were bugs and stability issues holding up the dlc release, but balance? owlcat being concerned 'bout balance? now?

...

am s'posing is possible. after all the developers did recognize after the fact how blackwater were representing a disproportionate challenge, but as much o' the balance issues is the result o' owlcat's bloat, the fix is not particular complex.

converse, if there is a few new mythic feats and abilities added to the game which is clear broken, am personal understanding why a developer other than owlcat would wanna balance, but is hard to consider a few o' the trickster and demon abilities, or angel spells, and imagine what exact would make owlcat pause.

HA! Good Fun!

[uuuhhii]

plan to start a lich playthrough

what happen if player doesn't get along with zacharius

can player still reach mythic 10

[majestic]

Unfair is hilarious. Not the big fights, because those are manageable. It's everything else that's ludicrous, like the stray horde of Zombie Lords in Sosiel's quest that randomly attack Ember for a hundred damage per round, or that funny Drow ambush on the road. Drow Knife Master crits for 60 damage? Yes, please. Having a Plagued Smilodon run up to a flat-footed party member? Oh, try reloading.

With full buffs it's merely tedious instead of impossible, just as long as enemies don't have a lucky crit streak*, and pulling out some cheese helps, like stacking smites, but companions being unfair viable takes on a whole different meaning when you're facing down twenty mooks with 30 BAB and AC, than just switching an encounter or two to unfair for fun. Also not exactly something for the rest averse, so no taking the Gray Garrison before the demon attack on the inn, and you better get that Selective Grease before that happens.

Ended up making a 21 CHA (now 22) smite bot mercenary for the tough ones too. Consistently hitting enemies through their DR is quite nice. Closing in on Leper's Smile, afterwards it should start to clear up. He's actually useful in fights now too, after getting Spirited Charge. Took a level of Beast Rider to get a Dog, because stats.

*Boy am I looking forward to Ember getting Protective Luck and cackling it to an hour or two, that'll smooth out these ridiculous crit streaks.

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

plan to start a lich playthrough

what happen if player doesn't get along with zacharius

can player still reach mythic 10

haven't gone past mythic 8 with lich so don't know. sorry. is hard to imagine your question hasn't been discussed somewhere... reddit perhaps.

15 minutes ago, majestic said:

Unfair is hilarious. Not the big fights, because those are manageable. It's everything else that's ludicrous

yeah, we mentioned we has done the boss battles on unfair w/o much trouble, but that we got no urge to do a full unfair run as it would be for us a soul-numbing slog. sounds like your experience meshes with what we anticipated; too much pre-buffing and cheese... as well as a couple ambush encounters such as the cemetery you identify which removes the possible o' prebuff. no thanks.

HA! Good Fun!

[Agiel]

32 minutes ago, majestic said:

 

*Boy am I looking forward to Ember getting Protective Luck and cackling it to an hour or two, that'll smooth out these ridiculous crit streaks.

If you have Toybox installed under "Class Specific" in the Bag of Tricks tab you should see a checkbox for "Witch/Shaman: Cackling/Shanting Extends Hexes by 10 minutes (Out Of Combat)" which should save you a load of time.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Agiel

[Gromnir]

am personal avoiding any mods until the game is a bit more stable, 'cause am routine sending bug reports in spite o' fact am unsure those reports is at all meaningful.

is not as if we got some kinda weird moral objection to mods.  quite the contrary as mods is able to make the game playable for many players who has run into game breaking bugs. also, as the cackle bit is already a clear exploit, to quibble over the use o' a mod would be hypocritical in the extreme.  nevertheless, we started playing wotr in beta and am kinda feeling as if the game is still in late stage beta, albeit in a far better state than we woulda' predicted for five months post release.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we were always perplexed by the people who would literal reroll ie game stats for hours to get their perfect character. same players would nevertheless suggest the reason they wouldn't use a mod to give themselves the scores they wanted, saving themselves considerable time, were 'cause such felt like that woulda' been cheating. such observations left us dumbfounded, but am recognizing the pathology is real 'mongst gamers.

[bugarup]

My first Kingmaker run was modless and it was the reason why I was bitching about the game so much, so wasn't going to make the same mistake again and modded the f†ck out of Wrath before even launching it: literally half the game (crusades), everything that only causes me a reload (failed trap/lock/lore checks, rest ambushes), obnoxious griefing such as encumbrance (if I can toss fireballs, I can very well summon luggage of sapient pearwood to carry around all my stuff) and time wasting chores like deaths door or not getting stats back without restoration on rest (hey game, lets agree that by clicking this one button I do the following: slowly haul my party to the nearest safe spot, buy scrolls, raIse dead, buy different scrolls, cast restorations and sh†t, rest and slightly less slowly crawl back to the dungeon, ok? Good then!) As a result I am enjoying the game so, so much more and likely will do more than two finished runs, provided there's no surprise House at the End of Fun  somewhere. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 hours ago, majestic said:

Unfair is hilarious. Not the big fights, because those are manageable. It's everything else that's ludicrous, like the stray horde of Zombie Lords in Sosiel's quest that randomly attack Ember for a hundred damage per round, or that funny Drow ambush on the road. Drow Knife Master crits for 60 damage? Yes, please. Having a Plagued Smilodon run up to a flat-footed party member? Oh, try reloading.

With full buffs it's merely tedious instead of impossible, just as long as enemies don't have a lucky crit streak*, and pulling out some cheese helps, like stacking smites, but companions being unfair viable takes on a whole different meaning when you're facing down twenty mooks with 30 BAB and AC, than just switching an encounter or two to unfair for fun. Also not exactly something for the rest averse, so no taking the Gray Garrison before the demon attack on the inn, and you better get that Selective Grease before that happens.

Ended up making a 21 CHA (now 22) smite bot mercenary for the tough ones too. Consistently hitting enemies through their DR is quite nice. Closing in on Leper's Smile, afterwards it should start to clear up. He's actually useful in fights now too, after getting Spirited Charge. Took a level of Beast Rider to get a Dog, because stats.

*Boy am I looking forward to Ember getting Protective Luck and cackling it to an hour or two, that'll smooth out these ridiculous crit streaks.

I think that most mooks actually have higher stats than the bosses in Unfair, which leads to some hilarious moments lore wise and absolute hell gameplay wise. It's not fun, requiring you to munchkin in unintuitive or rp-unfriendly ways (hello vivi/scaledfist/pally/kensai), use enough cheese to give you cholesterol problems, and prebuff more than you actually play the game. Not a good experience unless you're a sadomachochist, but probably not as bad as watching a certain sci-fi show or the new Sailor Moon.

3 hours ago, bugarup said:

provided there's no surprise House at the End of Fun  somewhere. 

Well there is Enigma, which is a lot of Owlcat puzzles in a very long dungeon. But if you know what you're doing (ie cheat) it's less frustrating and more tedious. But there's a mod to skip puzzles so **** it.

10 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

plan to start a lich playthrough

what happen if player doesn't get along with zacharius

can player still reach mythic 10

I'm not sure about Mythic 10, but I assume so.

At the end of the lich ritual, bone dad makes you grovel for your phylactery and you can't talk him out of it (he always starts to make you grovel, but if you went along with him he changes his mind). If you grovel, things go normally and you get your phylactery. If you don't, then you can fight him and if you've got his wand you can kick his soul out of it, regardless your phylactery is ruined and you aren't a real lich* (as in immortal as long as your phylactery is safe) but you're still an extremely powerful undead. I think you still hit Mythic 9 here but I'm nor sure.

*technically you aren't even with hour phylactery. You have to wear it and it's only a once a day revive in game. Probably there because if you died having you resurrect in Drezen would be too tedious.

[xzar_monty]

Speaking of the puzzles in the game: is there always a clue somewhere?

Let's take an example: the first Nenio-related location is called Nameless Ruins, and that area contains a clickable puzzle. It's not the one at the bottom, the one where you need masks (of which I have found one so far). It's the one on the way, the one where you have a circle within a square within a circle and you need to click the right spots in the right order. But is there a clue anywhere? Damned if I could find one. So I just cheated (i.e. googled it). It felt odd and wrong, but I'm not going to just click on stuff randomly if that's what the game expects me to do.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

19 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Speaking of the puzzles in the game: is there always a clue somewhere?

Sometimes, but even when there are clues it's often very obtuse. I think the games do expect you to trial and error it, which I don't have the time for so cheating it is.

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, KP the Torque Dork said:

I think that most mooks actually have higher stats than the bosses in Unfair,

got examples o' "most mooks" which has higher than the bosses in same areas?

Spoiler

off the top o' our head, melazmera has 33 levels o' dragon, ac 88 (74 touch), all saves +40 and 37 sr. am not recalling the hp.

the other boss in the colphyr mines is baphomet, who dispels all your prebuffing and then immediate casts a dc 52 overwhelming presence goat-head has the following level breakdown:  31 outsider, 10 mythic, 20 warpriest. he boasts an ac o' 86 (61 touch) as well as fort and will saves o' +40 with a 53(?) reflex. 42 sr. ~1700hp, which is admitted on the low side for demon lord bosses, but he is the first demon lord you encounter, so... 

regardless, that means that more than half o' the unfair mooks in the mines have superior stats to those two? is not the way we recall, but if you can support we would be curious to see. am assuming you aren't comparing endgame "most mooks" to mid or early, 'cause that would be silly.

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

The circle and square puzzle has hints all over the map. IIRC there are highlighted segments on walls/pillars that show which parts to click.

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

The circle and square puzzle has hints all over the map. IIRC there are highlighted segments on walls/pillars that show which parts to click.

if you do the final enigma puzzle in reverse, so-to-speak, you will be rewarded with dc boosting goggles which make your mind-affecting spells more powerful.

we knew this 'cause somebody didn't add a spoiler tag to an enigma post. am not certain how we were s'posed to know to do bass ackwards to score the goggles. 

is a few situations like that. many o' the puzzles is logic stuff but with multiple right answers so you nevertheless need trial and error through permutations to get correct, or memory puzzles, which after the second or third one get kinda stale.

too much repetition and too much reliance on trial and error. and for enigma they added a whole bunch o' rinse-and-repeat combat, plus those exhaustion columns as well. 

but am serious not sure why the storyteller and nenio puzzle quests were so similar. @Agiel mentioned enigma were backer content, so perhaps that explains to some degree, but am nevertheless wondering why the developers didn't make more effort to differentiate the content.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we didn't add a spoiler tag regarding the goggles, 'cause as far as am aware, am not actual spoiling as there is no way to know via gameplay.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

5 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

The circle and square puzzle has hints all over the map. IIRC there are highlighted segments on walls/pillars that show which parts to click.

Interesting! How are you supposed to work out the order in which to click? The parts part (sic) is obvious, because you only have only so many parts from which to choose. But anyway, you may well be correct. I'd have to go through the area again.

Incidentally, if it really is as you say, this highlights another problem that I think the game has in almost every aspect of it: the world-building is just odd. There is no conceivable way to think someone builds a puzzle like that and then scatters clues all over the place. It just doesn't happen, ever, anywhere. Now, I know this is a game, but I'd like to remind what Tolkien said in one of his letters: even when building a fantasy world, miles are still miles and weather is still weather (or something to that effect, I can't remember the exact quote).

The Owlcat world-design goes against this quite a bit. The cities, towns, villages and even the rural locations have chests and other containers with gold and other valuables inside. There are magical items all over the place, just lying around (in the wilderness this is ok, but in the cities and towns certainly not). Why would this ever happen? It's just so nonsensical. Heck, you can find smoking pipes and other ordinary items just lying around in the *Abyss*. In P:K, there's a small village where people go on about their humble lives, but right on that same map there are very dangerous creatures, such as dire wolves, fairly strong fey, and so on. It's inconceivable that these two could co-exist in such proximity. And so on.

So, while P:K and WotR are enjoyable, they are also quite strange on so many levels.

[Gromnir]

10 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Interesting! How are you supposed to work out the order in which to click?

gotta keep track o' the number o' times the symbols appear in the enigma dungeon. 3 times means the symbol = 3. etc

edit: first time we didn't immediate solve one o' the symbols=number puzzles, which were a pain in the arse 'cause the number values is based on how much o' the dungeon is accessible up to the point you could possible solve.

grrrr.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 15, 2022 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

@Gromnir, if memory serves, you said that Glitterdust and Grease (heightened) are some of the best spells in the game. What do you think of heightened Hideous Laughter combined with the Best Jokes mythic feat? Would it be a) good, b) worth it?

My sense is that it's good (Nenio could make it pretty strong), but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Two feats and all.

Edited February 15, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

@Gromnir, if memory serves, you said that Glitterdust and Grease (heightened) are some of the best spells in the game. What do you think of heightened Hideous Laughter combined with the Best Jokes mythic feat? Would it be a) good, b) worth it?

My sense is that it's good (Nenio could make it pretty strong), but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Two feats and all.

for an azata main character, hideous laughter + best joke is potential devastating 'cause you get bonuses through mythic spells to dc for mind affecting spells AND you got zippy magic which allows you to create two separate chains o' best joke.

am not sure 'bout the feat cost for a single spell for nenio, but isn't heightened which is the issue. keep in mind that one o' the reasons glitterdust and grease is so good early and late is they ignores sr. is not the case for hideous laughter. there is gonna be a portion o' the game where with hideous laughter you is gonna have difficulty making it stick, 'cause nenio is gonna need go with enchantment in addition to illusion and until you get the sr boosting feats you are also gonna need cross your fingers. that said, enchantment is one o' the spell schools for which there is numerous items which allow you to boost dcs through the roof, and going the court poet route with seelah is also a way to boost dc further. might go with a level o' crossblood sorc to get the dc boost from that as well. however, personal, chances are we stick with illusion for nenio, but is no reason a best joke/enchanter build can't work, just don't expect it to be good 'til mid, mid-late.

HA! Good Fun!

ps is an act 4 individual who has bracers which boost the dc o' enchantment spells, but you need kill 'em to get the gear. 

Spoiler

mielarah in the bad luck tavern. 

am pretty sure the slaying counts as an evil act.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Gromnir

[Vaeliorin]

Delaying the DLC is understandable (though only telling us a day before is...meh) but I was hoping 1.2 would come out today.  I wanted to start a new run, but I was hoping to do so with the patch, and I don't know if it's being delayed until March 3 as well, or what.  I'm not wiling to wait that long to start a new run, but I'm not sure how stable the beta patch is, or if I should just start without.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

23 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

Delaying the DLC is understandable (though only telling us a day before is...meh) but I was hoping 1.2 would come out today.  I wanted to start a new run, but I was hoping to do so with the patch, and I don't know if it's being delayed until March 3 as well, or what.  I'm not wiling to wait that long to start a new run, but I'm not sure how stable the beta patch is, or if I should just start without.

Per the Owlcat guy on reddit, they're hoping to drop 1.2 this week.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ssg7xm/comment/hx0h52h/

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, KP the Torque Dork said:

Per the Owlcat guy on reddit, they're hoping to drop 1.2 this week.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ssg7xm/comment/hx0h52h/

is not unusual, but is again noteworthy such info is unavailable at owlcat's twitter or their official boards.

1.2.0 patch release - Pathfinder: WotR / Discussions - Owlcat Games

can't recall the last time we saw meaningful developer contribution on the message boards.

regardless, our personal most current wotr run were paused 'cause were going aeon and having hit mythic seven (mythic eight arrives kinda soon after mythic seven) we decided to wait for the patch to become not beta. am hopeful the reddit info holds and there is no new technical obstacles which would prevent a release sooner as 'posed to later.

HA! Good Fun!