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1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

New fail for me: Plague of Insects is secretly keyworded as Poison, but it does not benefit from the +2PL to Poison effects from Spider Silk Robe....¬†ūüėź

Could this be fixed in the Community Patch or BPM?

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Thanks! I guess this won't be a problem for me, since I use BPM. BPM also gives you decay +PL when you pick wild strike corrode, which would benefit you I think with this build. Even though you have to cast the spells before shifting, I believe that once you shift, the ticks of decay spells like touch of rot will benefit from the damage boost due to higher PL.

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1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

Thanks! I guess this won't be a problem for me, since I use BPM. BPM also gives you decay +PL when you pick wild strike corrode, which would benefit you I think with this build. Even though you have to cast the spells before shifting, I believe that once you shift, the ticks of decay spells like touch of rot will benefit from the damage boost due to higher PL.

Sure ; but Plague pf Insect isn't tagged Decay though (neither in base game not BPM). But Decay bonus might help a DoT build of course.

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On 9/2/2021 at 10:36 AM, Elric Galad said:

Yup but Death Ring AoE is 4 times bigger (twice the radius) so it's logical that it isn't as damaging !

Also it destroys Near Death targets which is sometimes useful. Destroy spells works on a Graze AND as an assassin you can get a +25 accuracy bonus when using it from stealth. Basically auto-kill everything Near Death with a Fortitude at most equal to your accuracy. Given the later, I would qualify Death Ring as a no brainer for an assassin, even if Piercing Burst is often better. You can still pick both.

And Freezing Pillars would apply Assassin bonus only on 1st tick before breaking invisibility so...

Also you can't rely ONLY on a Pierce damages spells. Just toomuch foes are immune to it. I would pick both, especially on a Bloodmage who has 2/3 chances of restoring his Tier 6 spells (provided no other slot consumed).

Agreed about the bigger aoe, that can be useful. Although I generally prefer to kill fewer enemies faster then spread some damage over a larger group.

The huge damage difference between MPPB and Death Ring PLUS the fact that Fortitude is often the highest enemy defense means that the use cases for Death Ring were really narrow in my case. It would be very rare that the MPPB would leave enemies Near Death but still alive. Even if it did - with Death Ring they would probably be only Bloodied then.

And I don't rely ONLY on Pierce spells. Although you're exaggerating with many foes immune. There are what, like 3 areas with skellies who are immune (1 of them optional, depending on faction), and maybe something like 2 areas with Bog Lurkers. Its not much at all. Even if enemies are resistant, MPPB has 15 base Pen, I think. Add food or something and its 17. Assassin Bonus => 21. Crit: over 30 Pen. It Overpenetrates nearly all enemies you meet.

I've still got Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar, Ninagauth's Death Ray, Ninagauth's Shadowflame and even the Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring. Of course can't effectively use Stealth once some of them tick, but its still worth it sometimes (in Turn Based mode Death Ray interacts amazingly well with Stealth - being my No. 1 killer of foes with high AR!).

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2 hours ago, Haplok said:

Agreed about the bigger aoe, that can be useful. Although I generally prefer to kill fewer enemies faster then spread some damage over a larger group.

The huge damage difference between MPPB and Death Ring PLUS the fact that Fortitude is often the highest enemy defense means that the use cases for Death Ring were really narrow in my case. It would be very rare that the MPPB would leave enemies Near Death but still alive. Even if it did - with Death Ring they would probably be only Bloodied then.

And I don't rely ONLY on Pierce spells. Although you're exaggerating with many foes immune. There are what, like 3 areas with skellies who are immune (1 of them optional, depending on faction), and maybe something like 2 areas with Bog Lurkers. Its not much at all. Even if enemies are resistant, MPPB has 15 base Pen, I think. Add food or something and its 17. Assassin Bonus => 21. Crit: over 30 Pen. It Overpenetrates nearly all enemies you meet.

I've still got Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar, Ninagauth's Death Ray, Ninagauth's Shadowflame and even the Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring. Of course can't effectively use Stealth once some of them tick, but its still worth it sometimes (in Turn Based mode Death Ray interacts amazingly well with Stealth - being my No. 1 killer of foes with high AR!).

Yeah, anyway, I don't say that you should use it in priority, just that I think picking both is interesting. In the case of a subclass without Evocation spells, picking Death Ring mitigates the loss of Piercing Burst (esp for Conjurer). (and well, I added Acid KW with BPM, with is good for Chromoprimatic. Really a pity that it wasn't in base game)

I think I developped a fear of pierce immune foes during my first run. Now I'm a little paranoid about that. Or maybe also because there is a lot of Pierce resistant too, but it is rarely a pb with MPPB 15 PEN indeed. As a rule of thumb, I like having spells with different damages type or different utility on each tier.

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On 9/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, Not So Clever Hound said:

New fail for me: Plague of Insects is secretly keyworded as Poison, but it does not benefit from the +2PL to Poison effects from Spider Silk Robe....¬†ūüėź

this has probably been discussed before, but i wonder if it's because for many poison-immunity and poison-countering things, it treats "countered by antidote" as the same thing as an actual poison keyword, but actual keyword-based bonuses are not as generous.

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7 hours ago, thelee said:

this has probably been discussed before, but i wonder if it's because for many poison-immunity and poison-countering things, it treats "countered by antidote" as the same thing as an actual poison keyword, but actual keyword-based bonuses are not as generous.

If I remember well it's because the status is tagged Poison, but not the ability / attack. And the Immunity works somehow based on the status, but not the KW based bonuses.

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I've tested which abilities, spells, or items can benefit from both Ring of Focused Flame and Scion of Flame, and I'd like to share the result. 

The test environment is with BPM and CM. 

1. Minor Flame Shield of Darcozzi Paladini
It doesn't work.

2. Eternal Devotion's lasting effect (+10% Damage dealt as Burn for 15.0 sec)
It doesn't work.

3. Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr
It doesn't work.

4. Wizard's Flame Shield.
It works well.

5. Zandethus' Draconic Fury
It doesn't work.

6. Auto-attack of Magran's Favor
It doesn't work.

7. Fire-Godlike Battle-Forged
It works well.

8. Wall of Flame
It doesn't work (I don't know why it doesn't work in this case... It should benefit from those I think)

 

I guess any Lash type damage would not work with those, even if the thing provides Fire Keyword (check the Zandethus' Draconic Fury on BPM).

The thing I really confuse is the Flame Shield variant. Wizard's one works well, but Paladin's doesn't. I do not test Magran's Blessing's one yet though. 

 

Is there any unique weapon, except Firebrand, that can benefit from both the item and the passive ability?... Or, any way to apply on it with using weapon(s) which is not Firebrand?

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Basically the attack or weapon have to be tagged with the "fire" keyword to make it work. Lashes don't add keywords to attacks.

Wall of Flame doesn't work because it's a hazard spell. Hazards (like traps) are "characters" on their own and don't get your passives, bonuses etc. For example Assassin doesn't get the Assassinate bonus for Wall spells. In this regard you can see them as summons basically. The Seal spells of the Priest have the same problem (also work as hazards/traps). The "summon" named Wall of Flames doesn't wear the Ring and doesn't have Scion if Flame - so they don't work (it's more complicated than that - but I guess this is sufficient as explanation ;)). 

Short side track: Because of those hazard shenanigans Walls won't break Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure.

Everything else that is keyworded with "fire" and/or does direct burn damage (keywords may be hidden) should work. I remember that Dragon's Dowry for example was keyworded with fire - although it does pierce damage - and then you couldn't harm fire-immune enemies anymore because immunities looked for the fire keyword. If that's still the case it should also work with Ring of Focused Flame and Scion of Flame. Also weapons like Sungrazer and St. Drogga's Skull have fiery secondary effects that can proc off of normal attacks. Those should work, too. 

Minor Flame Shield not working is maybe just an oversight/error with the keywording. ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

 

 

 

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Short side track: Because of those hazard shenanigans Walls won't break Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure.

Wow, I've never known it before. Honestly, I barely used Seal/Wall abilities, haha.

I've tested several weapons further, but most of weapons except Firebrand seems not guarantee getting bonus from Ring of Focused Flame and Scion of Flame... Sometimes the dialog shows those are applied, but most of time the log doesn't show it.

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5 hours ago, Hoo said:

I guess any Lash type damage would not work with those, even if the thing provides Fire Keyword (check the Zandethus' Draconic Fury on BPM).

Correct. And this can't be changed (not easily at least)

5 hours ago, Hoo said:

The thing I really confuse is the Flame Shield variant. Wizard's one works well, but Paladin's doesn't. I do not test Magran's Blessing's one yet though. 

I can confirm this is because of a missiing Keyword. I've spotted it a couple of weeks ago.

I didn't change because adding Fire Keyword to a status makes it Countered by Hostile Water/Ice and the opposite. Didn't want to mess with that. What can be done is to add the KW to the fire attack itself. This should work, I will try.

Edited by Elric Galad
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On 9/12/2021 at 9:09 AM, Hoo said:

I've tested which abilities, spells, or items can benefit from both Ring of Focused Flame and Scion of Flame, and I'd like to share the result. 

The test environment is with BPM and CM. 

1. Minor Flame Shield of Darcozzi Paladini
It doesn't work.

It will work with next version of BPM. By adding the keyword to attack, you get benefit from both Scion of Flames and the ring.

However, it does not benefit from +Fire PL items since the ability itself isn't tagged "fire" (too much consequences, such as buffing the heal itself)

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