Screaming Souls made cool

[Boeroer]

Hello!

It may be that this is already widely known but I never read about it, so here it comes:

You can cast Screaming Souls on vessels only right? This limits its overall usefulness. 

But not if you have a chanter because you can cast it on your own skeletons.

High raw damage in a big AoE - and all you need is one teeny skeleton.  It won't even get harmed, that poor thing. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Hoo]

It can target spirit also, so I guess Ghost Heart's companion, which is spirit type, can be targeted, right?

 

I'm not sure about Druid's Blights. Are they spirit? 

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Hoo said:

Are they spirit? 

Should be Primordials I think. My mistake, you're right . Blights = spirits.

I don't know about the Duplicates (Dichotomous Soul, Essential/Substantial Phantom).

Cool find @Boeroer. It seems that those poor skeleton minions are going through quite an ordeal in a typical Boeroer playthrough .

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Not So Clever Hound]

33 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

I don't know about the Duplicates (Dichotomous Soul, Essential/Substantial Phantom).

Holy Molly, it works on The Dichotomous Soul Duplicates! Helwalker/Cipher says hello .

EDIT 1: It works on Substantial Phantom too.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

Afaik Blights are spirits, too. Essential Phantom could also be one. Didn't test that. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Not So Clever Hound]

My Helwalker/Soul Blade can really make some serious damage with this. make sure to spread apart your Duplicates so that they don't injure one another. Targeting enemy will is of course great and you benefit from The Empty Soul +10ACC for all the hits of Screaming Souls. The AoE radius is huge.

Not self-contained, but an Ascendant/Streetfighter with Thunderous Report and a companion who can summon a vessel/spirit could make a ridiculously powerful use of that ability... so much Raw Damage potential in huge AoE.

EDIT: and I was just ranting to myself this morning about how Upscaled PotD inflates enemy AR up to a ridiculous level sometimes. Now you just give us a new way to deliver tremendous Raw DMG. Sweet! Thanks for sharing.

EDIT2: Imagine a Blood Mage that cast essential phantom then Miasma of Dull Mindedness on the pack of enemies, and our Ascendant/Streetfighter, ascended and heating up, chain casting Screaming Souls...  Just don't kill yourself in the process

EDIT3: it should work on Spiritual Ally too.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Haplok]

Cool, I like this.

Only issue I see is that when it comes online, you already have a lot of OP abilities and ways to kill enemies fast, that its competing with other toys, that can be available earlier.

[Not So Clever Hound]

52 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Only issue I see is that when it comes online, you already have a lot of OP abilities and ways to kill enemies fast, that its competing with other toys, that can be available earlier.

For the multiclass I agree with you - if you take this at level 19 (or 20 if prioritizing Ancestor's Memory ), this will feel more like a cherry on top of the cake rather than a game changer in most situations. (though massive AoE Raw DMG is still a huge boon in certain fights on upscaled PotD).

If you're playing with a Single Class Ascendant, at level 13 you can Ascend, cast Ancestor's Memory on your SC Priest, who will chain cast SoT on you and him, while a Wizard has summoned a tanky Essential Phantom on the enemy frontline and cast Miasma on top. Then your Ascendant can go nuts with Screaming Souls Crits... it allows to punch way above level 13 IMO.

EDIT: with Borrowed Instinct, The Empty Soul and inflicting Miasma, if I'm not mistaken you can enjoy the equivalent of +70 ACC vs. enemy Will!

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

EDIT2: Imagine a Blood Mage that cast essential phantom then Miasma of Dull Mindedness on the pack of enemies, and our Ascendant/Streetfighter, ascended and heating up, chain casting Screaming Souls...  Just don't kill yourself in the process

I was already thinking about a Wizard/Cipher because of the Will defense and Miasma oDM (and the phantom). But yeah: lots of steps to cast before you can fially use Screaming Souls. Better to let somebody else do the "summon vessel or spirit" and "casting Miasma" parts. 

I found out because I'm currently testing an SC Psion for my AI-improved, all-SC run and I already have an SC Chanter (and that SC Berserker with Twin Eels in my testing session who makes great use of the skeletons). Seems nice to be able to add some big raw dmg AoE to that at some point. But my original plan was to just spam mind control per AI. At some point the Psion generates focus a lot faster than I can spend it with Whisper of Treason or Puppet Master. And it's both very effective and easy to script. I guess you can't order the AI to cast Screaming Souls on a friendly vessel, can you?    

[Boeroer]

No you can't.

[Not So Clever Hound]

I tried the ability with Essence Interrupter and it's quite nice when you're able to spawn a Ghoul for example. Kill someone with EE > Generate Focus > Creates a Friendly Vessel that aggroes enemies > Dump Focus on Vessel with Screaming Souls until everyone is dead. Very efficient loop.

But you can't summon vessels consistently with EE of course!  

[Boeroer]

Another way is to use the Belt of Magran's Chosen with multihit-weapons so a Flame Blight appears sooner or later (the more hit rolls the sooner). This blight will be hostile so AI will immediately target it with Screaming Souls (may result in raw friendly fire!). You cannot do "vessel OR spirit" conditions with the AI but you can combine several negated AND conditions (not kith AND not pirmordial AND not wilder AND not beast) which leaves only vessels and spirits to cast Screaming Souls on. This works somehow - but I don't like that you can't automatically target an ally.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Oh yeah, this thing is indeed very good with a Street fighter. 18s distracted without involving blunderbuss modal is very sweet.

[NotDumbEnough]

2 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

 

Not self-contained, but an Ascendant/Streetfighter with Thunderous Report and a companion who can summon a vessel/spirit could make a ridiculously powerful use of that ability... so much Raw Damage potential in huge AoE.

 

I'd rather just single-class the Ascendant, since you aren't really benefiting from sneak attack bonuses from the Streetfighter, and cast even faster due to Time Parasite stacking. Though I also prefer Amplified Wave, as with maxed out action speed you literally cast faster than the enemy can get back up.

I quit my Ascendant playthrough relatively early due to how broken and boring it was, though. It doesn't matter what you're fighting, you start with Thunderous Report, spam Time Parasite till you get 8 stacks, then Amplified Wave till everything is dead. At most you may want a Resolute/Courageous inspiration from a teammate to prevent interrupts during the starting sequence. For megaboss fights you can spam Brilliant inspirations and the +8 pen buff.

[Not So Clever Hound]

36 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I'd rather just single-class the Ascendant, since you aren't really benefiting from sneak attack bonuses from the Streetfighter, and cast even faster due to Time Parasite stacking. Though I also prefer Amplified Wave, as with maxed out action speed you literally cast faster than the enemy can get back up.

I quit my Ascendant playthrough relatively early due to how broken and boring it was, though. It doesn't matter what you're fighting, you start with Thunderous Report, spam Time Parasite till you get 8 stacks, then Amplified Wave till everything is dead. At most you may want a Resolute/Courageous inspiration from a teammate to prevent interrupts during the starting sequence. For megaboss fights you can spam Brilliant inspirations and the +8 pen buff.

Good point about SC Ascendant + Time Parasite. I would just be cautious about Screaming Souls + Shared Nightmare because the friendly fire of Screaming Souls can be pretty brutal, and Shared Nightmare will make the AoE gigantic!

Amplified Wave... it's very good, sure, but it targets Fortitude. In high level encounters I can't see how this is an autowin button, even with Borrowed Instinct. You still need other tactics IMO.

[thelee]

 

3 hours ago, Haplok said:

Cool, I like this.

Only issue I see is that when it comes online, you already have a lot of OP abilities and ways to kill enemies fast, that its competing with other toys, that can be available earlier.

i think this is hte big problem. i played aorund with this back in the day, and screaming souls really seems to want to be able to chain off at least one other target to be worth it; having only one vessel or spirit that you've summoned somehow is not really sufficient for some raw damage. and if you do manage to have more than one target, it's likely you have more even more than that, at which point the friendly fire becomes really hard to manage.

 

as @NotDumbEnough suggests, even if it's a harder defense, i would much rather spend less focus to try to spam amplified wave for something comparable.

[Not So Clever Hound]

One last argument if we're going down the scenario of an SC Ascendant going bonkers: Screaming Souls is a Shred Spell so if you manage the friendly fire you can take full advantage of Death by a 1000 Cuts on a tough cookie + adds (e.g. using an essential Phantom optimized to have a lot of engagement + Dichotomous Souls to contain the enemy frontline).

I agree that the spell is not particularly convenient. But spammable, high base Raw damage in large AoE, targeting Will (which on top of being a typically low defense, can be easily debuffed into oblivion), interaction with Death by a 1000 Cuts when needed... IDK maybe it's just because I was excited by @Boeroer's discovery but I think there is potential for a solid and efficient strategy there. (?)

[Boeroer]

I mean... It's rel. high raw damage in a big AoE. No resistances, no immunities and a defense which is the one you can debuff the most (servus Club + Miasma) an usually isn't the highest one to begin with.

it's certainly not OP - but now that I know that it works on your own vessels/spirits it's certainly less meh than before.

 

 

[thelee]

43 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

so if you manage the friendly fire you can take full advantage of Death by a 1000 Cuts on a tough cookie + adds

again the comparison is rough - antipathetic field does that way better if you have just one viable add.

[thelee]

i think if a balance mod simply just removed the friendly fire aoe it would open screaming souls (incl targeting your own stuff) up to a lot more fun stuff. at the very least it would function as a spirit/vessel hoser, which it does very poorly right now.

Edited August 24, 2021 by thelee

[NotDumbEnough]

If you want to spam Shred spells for single target damage under 1000 cuts Silent Scream is probably the best option after you have used antipathetic field if possible. Even a Daze on a resistant foe is very useful. The interrupt is obviously also very good.

My Ascendant repertoire for late game is basically Antipathetic Field, Silent Scream, Amplified Wave, Disintegration, Ancestor's Memory, Time Parasite, Driving Echoes/1000 Cuts (both are for boss fights, only one is really necessary imo). Everything else is more or less extraneous since these spells allow you to deal with pretty much everything in the game (against crush immune bog oozes just Disintegrate them all). Maybe Detonate for megaboss fights but that's about it. I take passive abilities with all my other skill points where possible.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

i think if a balance mod simply just removed the friendly fire aoe it would open screaming souls (incl targeting your own stuff) up to a lot more fun stuff. at the very least it would function as a spirit/vessel hoser, which it does very poorly right now.

I feel slightly targetted by this post

 

OK, so basically we have a spell :

A) That targets specific foes

B) That is VERY unconvenient to use 

C) When A+B are fullfilled, deals tremendous damages (including to foes excluded from A)

 

And then we have an alternate way to use it :

A') That can use a not so complicated to fullfilled condition (pretty trivial in the right party)

B') That not very convenient to use, but without risk to wipe your own party.

C') When A' + B' are fullfilled, deals fairly good damages, but honnestly nothing that special for 70 focus.

 

So, if the spell is set to foe-only : the second case would work fairly well, but it will IMHO trivialize certain encounters (Splintered Reef comes to my mind). Especially because, as a Cipher spell, you would be able to spam it when optimal.

The root of the issue is that this ability sort of have 2 modes with disproportioned risks and consequences. I feel that foe-only and multiple AoE cannot coeists within this abilities.

 

Alternate ideas (I'm set on nothing) :

1) We could imagine a pseudo-mindwave that only release 1 AoE, centered on a spirit/vessel target. This one could be foe-only. With appropriate summons, it won't be such much of a specialized spell. This would solve both A+B conditionality issue, but the spell would loose a bit of personnality.

2) We could also have the ability procs on EVERY spirit/vessel, including all allies, not only the initial target. This variant shall not be foe only. It won't be much better than the existing one vs vessels/spirits (but still incredibly good when you manage to set it up). But it would also have other use case with the right party. Granted this would basically rip your own summons (so not exactly a free cast) and possibly your own party, but I feel the risk/reward would be more balanced.

2b) Same but limitating the spell to spirit only. Why ? Because Chanters have a too easy time spamming vessel summons. Spirits leave a lot of possibilities (Wisps, Blights, Ghostheart pet, wizard's phantoms, monk's twins).

 

I think 2 and 2b would also be an indirect buff to 1000 cuts, which sometimes feels a bit lacking when you need it (cough cough Dorudugan).

[Not So Clever Hound]

12 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

2) We could also have the ability procs on EVERY spirit/vessel, including all allies, not only the initial target. This variant shall not be foe only. It won't be much better than the existing one vs vessels/spirits (but still incredibly good when you manage to set it up). But it would also have other use case with the right party. Granted this would basically rip your own summons (so not exactly a free cast) and possibly your own party, but I feel the risk/reward would be more balanced.

Thanks @Elric Galad! You rock.

I would personally think this option is the best and most in the spirit of the ability: if you can cast it on your own summons, why can't it proc off them as well? It would feel specialized but worth it if you have eg. a Beckoner with a ton of skeletons + Dichotomous Souls + Phantom etc. holding the enemy, your team retreats, the cipher fires off the nuke... To me this sounds like a high risk/ high reward, satisfying gameplay loop.

EDIT: now that I think about it... if the Cipher is Confused, e.g. Berserker/Ascendant does the spell proc off friendly summons? I don't think so but I will check now. EDIT2: no it doesn't.  

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

It should.

[Not So Clever Hound]

26 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

It should.

Well, it didn't. Good talk though.

Seriously though, have you seen it actually work? I tried with Dichotomous Souls and a Vessel spawned from Charm of Bones. I'm not talking about landing the initial ability, I'm talking about the spell proccing off the other friendly vessels in the vicinity for add'l damage.