Coronavirus 666: The Number of the Delta Variant (but in an entirely scientific context)

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

As recent as yesterday I participated in a survey performed the University of Queensland about video gaming and the effects of isolation caused by Covid.

It was grotesque and sadly no commentary section, so I could give those "researchers" a piece of my mind. It was so obvious, that they had already made their conclusion and now people participating were being "railroaded" with multiple choice options that I would describe as confusing at best and deliberately misleading at worst, trying to somehow retrieve data to support their theory. It was a complete wasted of time and tax payer money. At least to your surveys without trying to actively mislead people to answer in a way you would prefer them to answer and let them answer truthfully instead.

Edit: By deliberately misleading, I mean the frequent use of double negatives in the answer selections and questions that are assumptions about you.

 

Funny how everyone is a scientist these days

That study sounds interesting but what was the outcome or data that you agreed or disagreed with? 

What was the study saying or not saying because personally I believe gaming has been a life saver for me during the lockdown especially for my mental state because being single, living by yourself and being prevented from socialising can be very tough

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

That study sounds interesting but what was the outcome or data that you agreed or disagreed with? 

What was the study saying or not saying because personally I believe gaming has been a life saver for me during the lockdown especially for my mental state because being single, living by yourself and being prevented from socialising can be very tough

Tl;dr; if you play video games you suffer from anxiety and have a hard life that you can’t see your way out of other than escapism (by seeking refuge in something where you’re in control of your situation)
 

Every point and question had that as an established truth. In the end I was just fed up with the sheer stupidity of it as it was obvious that they had a conclusion and needed to “massage” the data to fit it. No, I don’t really suffer from severe anxiety and I don’t feel like my life is worthless and best left behind, like the survey tried very hard to convince me of.

 

Edit: This is what it looked like when presented to me (I removed names, links and contact info)

 

My name is xxx, a PhD student from the xxxx and I am working with Professor xxxx and Dr xxxx from the xxxx), as well as Professor xxxx from the University of xxxx (Canadian university).

I am reaching out to you as you have previously indicated on past studies that you'd like to be contacted about future research. We are currently conducting research on the motivations and passions people have for gaming, and its impact on wellbeing. This current study is specifically interested in understanding why and how people engage with videogames during difficult times.
 
I’m looking for anyone over the age of 17 who enjoys playing video games, and who also works and/or studies (in any capacity) to complete an online survey (~15 mins). To thank you for your time, all participants will have the opportunity to enter a prize draw of 1 of 4 US$50 Amazon Gift Vouchers.
 
If you are interested in learning more, or wish to participant, please follow this link: xxxx

 

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Tl;dr; if you play video games you suffer from anxiety and have a hard life that you can’t see your way out of other than escapism (by seeking refuge in something where you’re in control of your situation)
 

Every point and question had that as an established truth. In the end I was just fed up with the sheer stupidity of it as it was obvious that they had a conclusion and needed to “massage” the data to fit it. No, I don’t really a from severe anxiety and I don’t feel like my life is worthless and best left behind, like the survey tried very hard to convince me of

OMG !!! That sounds terrible, the people who create studies like that should be prosecuted  for defamation of character or something similar?

I am glad you let them know you werent happy, let me know if you want me to complain as well. But I will need to read and review the questions and study myself just so my views are based on the study and not anecdotal opinions 

[Gorth]

Just now, BruceVC said:

OMG !!! That sounds terrible, the people who create studies like that should be prosecuted  for defamation of character or something similar?

I am glad you let them know you werent happy, let me know if you want me to complain as well. But I will need to read and review the questions and study myself just so my views are based on the study and not anecdotal opinions 

The link only works once and there was no feedback form. Believe me, I would have loved to give some feedback to that

[Skarpen]

46 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Tl;dr; if you play video games you suffer from anxiety and have a hard life that you can’t see your way out of other than escapism (by seeking refuge in something where you’re in control of your situation)

I love when the studies confuse such basic concepts as cause and effect. Sure, you will find people like that playing VG but that's rather because they already suffering from those conditions and are looking for escapism and not because VG causes them. 

It's like saying paraolympics cause disability because all participants have one. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Skarpen

[Elerond]

48 minutes ago, Gorth said:

The link only works once and there was no feedback form. Believe me, I would have loved to give some feedback to that

That already would cause rejection of study here (at least it was rejection cause when I was still doing my dissertation), because it massively increase risk that study have unseen flaws and results can't be trusted

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, Elerond said:

That already would cause rejection of study here (at least it was rejection cause when I was still doing my dissertation), because it massively increase risk that study have unseen flaws and results can't be trusted

Elerond what dissertation did you do?

[Elerond]

59 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Elerond what dissertation did you do?

Possibility to automate usability testing using neural networks

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Possibility to automate usability testing using neural networks

But I thought you studied computer  science\programing? Or is this dissertation part of that ?

[Elerond]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

But I thought you studied computer  science\programing? Or is this dissertation part of that ?

You think that coding AI to automatically analyse user interfaces isn't programming?

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Elerond said:

You think that coding AI to automatically analyse user interfaces isn't programming?

Geez why you shouting, ....sorry for asking and being interested 

 

[Malcador]

7 hours ago, Elerond said:

You think that coding AI to automatically analyse user interfaces isn't programming?

Depends, are you using C ?  If not, then no.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Depends, are you using C ?  If not, then no.

@Elerond Malc has got you there my friend  

 

[teknoman2]

19 hours ago, Gorth said:

Funny how everyone is a scientist these days

You think that the people at Oxford university who made the study are not scientists?

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, teknoman2 said:

You think that the people at Oxford university who made the study are not scientists?

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You seem to have made yourself the judge of it. If they support your position, they are, if they don't they aren't? Just calling out your hypocrisy in statements like this:

On 8/19/2021 at 7:47 PM, teknoman2 said:

It seems everyone here is a researcher in the medical field and not someone who just read/heard something and relays the news, choosing what and who they believe.

Oxford University has it's own share of weird and head scratching research. But you don't seem to mind cherry picking your sources when making blanket statements about other peoples sources.

[Gorth]

Just an interesting snippet on the Covid situation in Florida and the results of the governors actions...

 

[rjshae]

Our state (Washington) just set a new hospitalization record for COVID-19 patients; higher even than last December/January. We're set to go into another mask mandate for indoor spaces starting next Monday.

• Washington Hospitals See Record Number of COVID-19 Patients
• Statewide updated mask order goes into effect Monday, Aug. 23

This is getting really old. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

Our state (Washington) just set a new hospitalization record for COVID-19 patients; higher even than last December/January. We're set to go into another mask mandate for indoor spaces starting next Monday.

• Washington Hospitals See Record Number of COVID-19 Patients
• Statewide updated mask order goes into effect Monday, Aug. 23

This is getting really old. 

That is worrying and should be very frustrating for you because a couple of weeks ago you could make fair and reasonable comparisons to states that had utterly failed to do much about the virus or had ignored basic preventative measures like mask wearing, this included Florida and Texas. Of course your numbers are still tiny compared to those states

But what concerns me is how did this happen in a state that has generally following the correct virus advice and measures? Your one link discusses this, its the Delta variant and appears to be mostly younger people in their 20's and 30' who are now creating the hospitalization numbers 

Thats a huge problem because I was under the impression that this age group in states like yours had taken the vaccine but it appears not....do you have any idea why when  the message from your governor has been consistent and science based and your state is Democrat and generally  liberal which unfortunately matters because in the US politics has influenced peoples acceptance of the virus ?

But in summary, the unvaccinated will spread the virus and spread  variants. This has been seen globally. Sadly the current reality in the US is just another example of why I keep saying we need laws in all our countries to make vaccines mandatory because if not far too many citizens simply refuse to accept the reality of the virus and variants can and do spread 

And you obviously ignore views from people like 2133 who suggest kids dont need to wear masks at schools 

 

 

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You seem to have made yourself the judge of it. If they support your position, they are, if they don't they aren't? Just calling out your hypocrisy in statements like this:

Oxford University has it's own share of weird and head scratching research. But you don't seem to mind cherry picking your sources when making blanket statements about other peoples sources.

Also you dont need to be a  scientist to create accurate studies or gather meaningful  statistics, you just need to do it properly and present your research data for review for those interested

Their are many people who create pertinent dissertations who could be students doing their masters or professors .....but they not scientists 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Also you dont need to be a  scientist to create accurate studies or gather meaningful  statistics, you just need to do it properly and present your research data for review for those interested

Their are many people who create pertinent dissertations who could be students doing their masters or professors .....but they not scientists 

...and scientists are only right until they're wrong. It's the beauty of science. Always looking for more info to prove/disprove something. In the end, who you believe is a personal matter. Some things seems more obvious and easier to accept (like the Earth is flat, because we can all see that from our individual perspectives) and some things stretches credulity. Early (European) astronomers got burned on the stake by the Christians for having outrageous ideas about the universe.

 

edit: if the head of the ICU in Florida’s largest hospital says 95% of the cases in his ICU is unvaccinated (interview in the link I posted above) I consider him a more reliable source on the importance of anti covid measures than anything coming out of DeSantos’ mouth 

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Gorth said:

...and scientists are only right until they're wrong. It's the beauty of science. Always looking for more info to prove/disprove something. In the end, who you believe is a personal matter. Some things seems more obvious and easier to accept (like the Earth is flat, because we can all see that from our individual perspectives) and some things stretches credulity. Early (European) astronomers got burned on the stake by the Christians for having outrageous ideas about the universe.

Good post and some accurate historical observations. But we must be careful to not unintentionally create the wrong impression about the value of qualified specialists during this virus like Epidemiologists and Virologists  

Because it happened now in SA with the reaction to those comments from that heart doctor I mentioned who basically fed and unintentionally supported anti-vaxxers and " deep state " conspiracy theorists ( yes we have this in SA as well its just framed differently ). People were saying " now you cant even trust Doctors and experts ....I knew this virus was a hoax, here is the proof" 

We not saying that Science is wrong or should be  suddenly ignored because its been wrong in the past. Science as you mentioned   evolves and is updated but certain things are irrefutable like the overall  benefits of vaccines 

So trust me  some  people will take your views on the reality of the failures of science and use that to justify continued misinformation about the virus and vaccines ....its disappointing but they will, whats that big SJ  word " conformational bias " and all that 

[teknoman2]

9 hours ago, Gorth said:

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You seem to have made yourself the judge of it. If they support your position, they are, if they don't they aren't? Just calling out your hypocrisy in statements like this:

Oxford University has it's own share of weird and head scratching research. But you don't seem to mind cherry picking your sources when making blanket statements about other peoples sources.

I don't cherry pick, the point of an argument is to present something that supports what you say and i simply said that there are several prominent people who work in medical research that consider the vaccines unsafe and was met with mocking replies as if i was some flat earther who "did his own research".  I didn't claim to know who is right nor to have done any research myself, i simply follow the news

[Gorth]

55 minutes ago, teknoman2 said:

I don't cherry pick, the point of an argument is to present something that supports what you say and i simply said that there are several prominent people who work in medical research that consider the vaccines unsafe and was met with mocking replies as if i was some flat earther who "did his own research".  I didn't claim to know who is right nor to have done any research myself, i simply follow the news

But you’re perfectly fine with mocking other people for doing the same. Don’t be surprised if you’re held to your own standards. Me, you can mock all you want, I’m a bit like the proverbial waterproof goose, but the blanket generalisations often end up badly received.

[teknoman2]

46 minutes ago, Gorth said:

But you’re perfectly fine with mocking other people for doing the same. Don’t be surprised if you’re held to your own standards. Me, you can mock all you want, I’m a bit like the proverbial waterproof goose, but the blanket generalisations often end up badly received.

i simply replied in kind. Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think anyone in here is a scientist involved in the R&D of covid vaccines, we just know what the news tell us. As such i found it frustrating that some of the replies were given with an air of authority on the matter. 

[majestic]

Well, here's to one last hurrah of an air of authority on the matter, I guess. I should stand by what I say more often, really, and just mark the thread as read without actually reading it. Ah, well, here goes nothing:

8 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

I don't cherry pick, the point of an argument is to present something that supports what you say and i simply said that there are several prominent people who work in medical research that consider the vaccines unsafe and was met with mocking replies as if i was some flat earther who "did his own research".

That's easy to explain, because the "several prominent medical researchers" are akin to the 0.1% of climatologists who deny climate change, and the 0.1% of physicists who are still trying to find the aether. The difference is that while the anti-relativity crowd doesn't get any false equivalency media time*, the fringe science groups for climate change and vaccines do, for some reason, helped by a good deal of lobbying by some very powerful and wealthy individuals (there's an actual conspiracy for you, although it's really just out in the open) and trolling on social media.

Take Byram Bridle, for instance, a "prominent" Canadian immunologist who thinks that the vaccines are poison because the spike protein is cytotoxic, and he's citing an actually old Japanese study where it was shown that rats and mice reacted badly to having an insane amount of mRNA injected. Much, much more than what's in a human approved dose. He also said he "fought" to be allowed to read the study, while it's really just publicly available, albeit written in Japanese. The guy was all the rage a while ago on Russia Today and a host of anti-vaxxer YouTube channels and other alternative health and medicine media outlets.

The rats have been injected with much higher dosages of the Pfizer vaccine that humans would get. The vaccines themselves, by design, cause inflammation (= cells that build the spike protein after having the mRNA introduced through vector viruses or lipid nanoparticles are eventually disposed of by the body's immune response), it seems logical enough that severely overdosing it causes problems. If that didn't happen, the vaccines wouldn't work.

This is, by the way, the study Dr. Bridle had to "fight over" to get access to (maybe he meant he had trouble finding a Japanese translator, because clicking on that link sure isn't anything you need to fight over), and this is the EMA approval document for the Pfizer vaccine. The study is talked about on page 48 to 50. Just so you know this isn't made up. And no, I'm neither a medical reseracher nor can I read Japanese, I got the two links through five minutes of googling around a bit. You'd think news outlets letting the guy talk would fact check with even greater care, but who does that in this day and age. Ain't nobody got time to do things that don't generate ad revenue - or fit the desired narrative.

However, don't go and claim you present an argument, you just - by your own admission - pick something up on the news and post it here, and most of the time it's just that. Still no sign of Israel actually stopping the third doses. In fact, Israel just approved the booster shot for younger people, first for everyone aged 50 or older, and recently 40 or older. My Moderna shot came with an list of ingredients that I had to read through first to look for known allergies.

<imagine HK47's voice here> Mocking tone: People don't think you're a flat earther doing your own research for nothing, it's because you keep repeating the same pattern of any flat earther who does his own "research", and assuming for the moment that you're really just relaying what the news tell you, it's time to look for a different news channel than Russia Today or some other radio station, because that one really has it in for any vaccine that isn't Sputnik V. I wonder why that is though.

All of this isn't to say that Big Pharma isn't an actual problem - it is, often, and for hundres of millions of people worldwide. You just need to look at the insulin prices in the US, or the attempts to price gouge HIV treatments, side effects that show up due to insufficient testing, and any number of such occurances. Vaccines, however, aren't. Sick people generate much more income for Big Pharma than innoculated ones, and it really takes some mental twisting to come up with the idea that vaccines are supposed to make you sick, contain microchips or are used for population control, which bit by bit I wish they were actually really made for.

*Although in this day and age, it looks more and more like it's not about false equivalency any more but about generating as many clicks and viewership as possible to sell some more ads.

  

6 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

i simply replied in kind. Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think anyone in here is a scientist involved in the R&D of covid vaccines, we just know what the news tell us. As such i found it frustrating that some of the replies were given with an air of authority on the matter. 

It really is unlikely that anyone here was involved in any Covid-19 research, but what does that matter? It's not necessary to understand - at least in basic principle - how an mRNA or vector vaccine works, and there are a ton of helpful people who take the complex subject matter and try to make it accessible to people. They often have YouTube channels or are sometimes on TV too (though not often enough), but are really often the punching bags of conspiracy nutjobs, anti-vaxxers and flat earthers.

The German RKI for instance has a YouTube presence that explains how what and why the vaccines work as they do, how coronaviruses infect cells, and a bunch of other things. It's not perfect, but they're really helpful and use props to visualize what's going on.

Like this one:

The only problem is, obviously, they're German.

The guy has a PhD in microbiology by the way (appeal to authority, kek) and probably drives a nice Porsche financed by Big Pharma, Bill Gates, Soros or whoever else is at fault for the plandemic. Where's Alex Jones when you need him? There's no way he's doing these for the benefit of people and to help them understand. Nah.

Edited August 21, 2021 by majestic