A bit of Advice mid-run through party POTD/Ironman

[Boeroer]

I fried my PC's power supply unit today while I was trying out the Berserker with the high heels... (don't think it was really the game's fault but it happened while playing).

The new one will be here on Monday. No Deadfire until then.

[Torm51]

That stinks, been there though lol

[Torm51]

@Boeroer  @Not So Clever Hound @Elric Galad @theleeUpdate: LONE SURVIVOR. I have done everything in the game save Ukaizo and the Forgotten Sanctum. I have never beaten the game doing FS because the first time i beat Deadfire FS was not out and the second time FS was out but I had WoW classic releasing and had to cut the game short and skip FS to get my POTD/Ironman done.  I am playing with Berath's Challenge and Skaens, and I got to the room in FS in Wael's constructs stomach has those portals on the ground that injure you ....I got ABMUSHED by those flesh dogs that teleported on my backline and they all had that resolve affliction striking dreams that does not let you cast....I could not cast and all my Resurrections got knocked out...everyone died EXCEPT...the Crusader my Watcher.  Basically the entire room could not kill him and Refreshing defense had a timer of like 700 seconds, with Exalted Endurance and bleeding cuts the Monsters that cast freezing pillar ended up killing them selves with their own spells......I was the Lone Survivor....time to go get an all mercenary team.   What a FAIL.....sort of? maybe the Crusader tank can solo a lot of the game with high Arcana? lol I was better off walking in that room by myself.  Maybe this guy is TOO tanky for his own good and what was needed there was offense.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Torm51

[Elric Galad]

Honestly, that sounds like an unique experience, something worth telling to others on this forum. You play Ironman with Berath challenge, it had consequences and now you have to face them  

[Not So Clever Hound]

It sucks but glad it’s not the end. Your crusader should spend some time in an afghani cave then write a book about his traumatic experience, someone will give him a nice movie deal . 
 

In all seriousness though, FS is a tough place and I’ve had to use high arcana + greater maelstrom scrolls with several toons that were ill equipped for certain particular fights. Hard to discover/manage on a ToI run without a non ToI advance party to fine tune strategies. IMHO in some of those fights you could bring next time an SC Fury with a Cipher to give him Brilliant. And lure/spam the real deal Great Maelstrom. Not very inventive, but quite effective. 

[Torm51]

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

It sucks but glad it’s not the end. Your crusader should spend some time in an afghani cave then write a book about his traumatic experience, someone will give him a nice movie deal . 
 

In all seriousness though, FS is a tough place and I’ve had to use high arcana + greater maelstrom scrolls with several toons that were ill equipped for certain particular fights. Hard to discover/manage on a ToI run without a non ToI advance party to fine tune strategies. IMHO in some of those fights you could bring next time an SC Fury with a Cipher to give him Brilliant. And lure/spam the real deal Great Maelstrom. Not very inventive, but quite effective. 

It’s over.

I did this in POE 1 successfully, all first try POTD/Ironman were wins. This is MUCH more difficult in POE 2.  Boss fights are more like MMOs so meta knowledge may be necessary.

 

report: Got the last guy to about 20% when I just ran out of steam, my go to group was KIA and I just didn’t have the same vibe with the new group. I got overwhelmed by the adds in that last fight.  All in all successful run I could of just gone to Ukaizo and won the run by I wanted to do FC. it’s now my favorite DLC it’s so good.
 

 

That said I think the Crusader tank was pretty successful, one thing I didn’t like about the Crusader tank IMO he is not super useful in boss fights. Bosses have a lot of AOE damage and you can’t engage them, yes if you attack the boss first with the Crusader he does tank the boss but as soon as your next melee dps engages the boss is just going to turn to the melee dps and the crusaders melee is not very good, so you basically turn to support mode with LOH and at that point I rather have a herald or even a pure Paladin, that’s my biggest dig on the Crusader tank.  Extremely useful in trash fights with lots of enemies. Against a boss in a group you are almost better of soloing.
 

PS @Elric Galad I’ve installed the community Patch and your mods and I’m going to try Single Class Paladin as a support tank for a heavy melee group (SC Monk and i think a SC priest of Woedica using fist scaling weapon since summoned fists no longer scale with transcended suffering I think I’ll go SC, Wildryhmer and a Wizard). He will tank and heal and give out buffs. Let’s see the difference. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Torm51

[thelee]

14 hours ago, Torm51 said:

I was the Lone Survivor....time to go get an all mercenary team.   What a FAIL.....sort of?

sounds like an unequivocal win to me. your nerves must've been shot after that!

 

2 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

In all seriousness though, FS is a tough place and I’ve had to use high arcana + greater maelstrom scrolls with several toons that were ill equipped for certain particular fights.

yeah, FS is definitely the most punishing. If I let my attention lapse I can get caught out by some of the FS challenges. Examples: the vithracks that cast minoletta's msisile swarm, the death by a 1000 cuts flying around in some vithrack fights, the frightened child, forgetting that those darn mushrooms can store up spell energy cast at them, getting hit for 100+ damage by some of those mushroom special hits, all the boss fights that can't be interrupted, being constnatly knocked-up by swarms of those blind monks. 

 

1 hour ago, Torm51 said:

Bosses have a lot of AOE damage and you can’t engage them, yes if you attack the boss first with the Crusader he does tank the boss but as soon as your next melee dps engages the boss is just going to turn to the melee dps and the crusaders melee is not very good

as a postscript suggestion - turning on defensive stance and equipping your melee dps with a backup reach weapon would help alot. you wouldn't be able to get flanked on the enemy, but i'd give up flanked if it meant safe face-tanking. not much help for the oracle who do those damn beam attacks at anyone, but works for most melee bosses.

[Torm51]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

sounds like an unequivocal win to me. your nerves must've been shot after that!

 

yeah, FS is definitely the most punishing. If I let my attention lapse I can get caught out by some of the FS challenges. Examples: the vithracks that cast minoletta's msisile swarm, the death by a 1000 cuts flying around in some vithrack fights, the frightened child, forgetting that those darn mushrooms can store up spell energy cast at them, getting hit for 100+ damage by some of those mushroom special hits, all the boss fights that can't be interrupted, being constnatly knocked-up by swarms of those blind monks. 

 

as a postscript suggestion - turning on defensive stance and equipping your melee dps with a backup reach weapon would help alot. you wouldn't be able to get flanked on the enemy, but i'd give up flanked if it meant safe face-tanking. not much help for the oracle who do those damn beam attacks at anyone, but works for most melee bosses.

Ya that’s a good idea. I just got greedy and wanted max damage and should of done that.  
 

What really threw a wrench in things is the monk dying to a DOT while invisible doing a WotW, I could not target her for a REZ and the Berath Timer went off. I should just hired another Monk but I tried not to cheese it too bad..what are the chances you have another monk immediately? Lol and I didn’t run with Mirke this time…sometime I need to make some power gaming decisions and I tend to be resistant towards it.  A monk would of owned that fight with WotW on adds and Efficient Anguish spam on the boss. I’ve definitely got it on the next run.

 

PS I LOVE Beraths Challenge I always felt that infinite knockout no death is sort of cheese. Makes sense to me.  Also I think Skaens challenge is sneaky hard.  Stuff can shoot you that you can’t see.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Torm51

[thelee]

23 minutes ago, Torm51 said:

Also I think Skaens challenge is sneaky hard.  Stuff can shoot you that you can’t see.

oh yeah. that's the worst part about the vithracks IMO. I compulsvely equip a torch (or the backer sabre) and also make sure to send someone behind the front lines, because otherwise invariably i'm going to get hammered by some extremely high level spells without knowing.

i actually really love the subtle changes skaen's challenge makes to fights in this way.

Edited August 15, 2021 by thelee

[Torm51]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

oh yeah. that's the worst part about the vithracks IMO. I compulsvely equip a torch (or the backer sabre) and also make sure to send someone behind the front lines, because otherwise invariably i'm going to get hammered by some extremely high level spells without knowing.

i actually really love the subtle changes skaen's challenge makes to fights in this way.

It definitely made FC super hard with those missile salvos wow. It’s not what got me the final boss did but it almost did. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Torm51

[Abrax]

@Torm51could you give me some tips about the Crusader? I am trying a party with a Crusader as main tank, but I am struggling in some fights, for example when I face many rangeds, or when I face melees that can engage more than one of my party. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

17 hours ago, Torm51 said:

It’s not what got me the final boss did but it almost did. 

This final boss fight is super brutal. I remember on a solo Assassin/Cipher run it took me ages to figure it out, and it ultimately involved a ton of scroll spamming. Including Withdraw scrolls interestingly enough. Gouging Strike + Toxic Strike + Disintegration + self-Withdraw is a very interesting way to ruin someone's day, I'm glad no enemies is using that against us .

Anyway, sorry your playthrough ended there.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Torm51]

@Abrax I am not sure I am the best advice giver, I just lost my POTD/Ironman run in FS to the last guy, that said I have some thoughts at least.  I think for a Crusader tank to be effective you have to run a heavy ranged group with only 1 melee who hangs out at the edge of fights so they are not engaged by multiple melee enemies.  A crusader tank in a melee heavy group is pointless because when the melee engages they will attack the damage dealers who have less defense.  So 1.  If you want a crusader tank run a ranged heavy group. 2.  If you run a melee heavy group use the Crusader as a  two handed or duel wield damage dealer/off tank and share the tanking with your other damage dealers. 3.  Crusader as a damage dealer is extremely effective in group play as they are capable of dealing respectable damage and are extremely tough for a damage dealer, this is probably your most optimal use of a Crusader.  4. Crusader can solo but will need heavy Arcana in certain fights.  5.  Dealing with ranged enemies: use stealth and bring the crusader out first all the shots will go to him if you have heavy stealth skill and stoic steel you can sit in front of enemy for a while and build up your armor before they see you, then when you are spotted use that time to buff up your damage dealers and depending on your group either use counter ranged fire, CC or run your melee group around enemy engagers and at ranged after enemy melee tied up by your Crusader.  Blinding ranged damage dealers is great because it forces them to come close to shoot, Chill Fog, Rouge Blind etc.

 

@Boeroer @thelee @Not So Clever Hound @Elric Galad Can all help too, they are better players.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Torm51

[Not So Clever Hound]

6 hours ago, Torm51 said:

they are better players

I really don't know about that, speaking for myself  as much as I've dealt with the big FS encounters left and right, doing this DLC on a ToI run would stress the living crap out of me.

I was thinking about how I would approach a Win-or-Die party run with a Crusader and I thought that an all-Pally crew could actually be interesting. Has anyone ever done it? I was thinking:

Goldpact/Unbroken
Goldpact/Troubadour
Goldpact/Ascendant or Soulblade
Goldpact/Priest of Berath
Goldpact/Blood Mage

On paper, this group could be both devastating and almost unkillable with the right abilities. It would require a ton of micro in big fights. But it would have multiple nasty tricks up its sleeve depending on the enemy roster and battlefield layout, while also having several layers of "oh sh*t!" panic buttons if anything goes sideways.

Damn... should I make my current Arcane Knight solo run a party run..?  

Edited August 17, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Manu22]

4 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

 

Goldpact/Unbroken
Goldpact/Troubadour
Goldpact/Ascendant or Soulblade
Goldpact/Priest of Berath
Goldpact/Blood Mage

You could call it a Goldparty

[Torm51]

4 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

I really don't know about that, speaking for myself  as much as I've dealt with the big FS encounters left and right, doing this DLC on a ToI run would stress the living crap out of me.

I was thinking about how I would approach a Win-or-Die party run with a Crusader and I thought that an all-Pally crew could actually be interesting. Has anyone ever done it? I was thinking:

Goldpact/Unbroken
Goldpact/Troubadour
Goldpact/Ascendant or Soulblade
Goldpact/Priest of Berath
Goldpact/Blood Mage

On paper, this group could be both devastating and almost unkillable with the right abilities. It would require a ton of micro in big fights. But it would have multiple nasty tricks up its sleeve depending on the enemy roster and battlefield layout, while also having several layers of "oh sh*t!" panic buttons if anything goes sideways.

Damn... should I make my current Arcane Knight solo run a party run..?  

I only play POTD/TOI, I cannot consider it a successful run if I beat the game but I had to reload a death, the way I learn is by dying to an encounter and coming back two weeks later lol.  I am not sure why the POTD/Ironman thought got into my head in POE 1 but I could not shake it lol  If a complete campaign run that has a death in it, it does not count as "cannon" for my watcher so i just play the hardest difficulty on Ironman.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Torm51

[Abrax]

I played a bit more with my Crusader, and I am getting the way of him. 
I gone to Sandswept Ruins and got Last Word, and I am doing a decent damage. Of course I don’t have offensive abilities, but I am having fun now. 
I am thinking in try a Fanatic or a Brute , but I don’t know if would be a good main tank