The all things Political Topic - When the sun Rises, the shadows must retreat Fleeing in fear from the Fires of dawn

[Gorth]

Old thread...

 

[Guard Dog]

BLM releases statement blaming the US for Cuban protest. Praises Cuban government.

207 sovereign states on this planet. Cuba has normal trade and relationships with 205 of them but it’s all our fault? And praising the Cuban government? F—k BLM. F—k everyone in it. F—k everyone who supports it. F—k everyone who knelt to it. 

[Sarex]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Cuba has normal trade and relationships with 205 of them but it’s all our fault?

Now you are being disingenuous, it's hard to have normal trade when any ships carrying goods to Cuba are forbidden from docking in the US ports. This makes it prohibitively expensive to ship anything to Cuba.

[Malcador]

 

[Guard Dog]

Just now, Malcador said:

 

Yeah we’re not going to be doing anything like that 

[Gfted1]

9 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Now you are being disingenuous, it's hard to have normal trade when any ships carrying goods to Cuba are forbidden from docking in the US ports. This makes it prohibitively expensive to ship anything to Cuba.

Are you saying that the additional 228 miles from the Port of Miami to the Port of Havana is what broke the camels back?

[Malcador]

They'd have to sacrifice US access for Cuba, so, Cuba is always going to lose out, I think. 

[Guard Dog]

I thought the embargo was stupid and because of it we’ve missed out on numerous opportunities to undermine the government for the last 20 years. But BLM coming out in support of the “revolutionary government” after all the misery they have caused in Cuba, east Africa, and Latin America is worse than contemptible. They don’t give a rat turd about  black lives and never did. They are all about Marxism and nothing else. Past time the polite lie was dispensed with. **** them.

[Gromnir]

50 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

BLM releases statement blaming the US for Cuban protest. Praises Cuban government.

207 sovereign states on this planet. Cuba has normal trade and relationships with 205 of them but it’s all our fault? And praising the Cuban government? F—k BLM. F—k everyone in it. F—k everyone who supports it. F—k everyone who knelt to it. 

you do realize there is no official blm... anything. is no blm organization. there has been dozens o' attempts to trademark blm and they has all failed. main reason for such failure is the obvious foundational issue that no single group claiming to speak for blm has any authority at law or based on tradition to do so. again, dozens o' different blm all claiming right to trademark. is no official blm leadership and we would dare you to name (without the benefit o' an internet search engine) the most important leaders in the blm movement. indeed, blm is a movement o' disparate and often conflicting groups from across the nation and now around the globe.

tell us a bunch o' minority progressives is blaming the US for cuba's problems? am not shocked. not genuine appalled neither. if you (mistaken) see all your problems as somehow originating from one monolithic source (the US government,) then believe the problems o' cubans derive from the same source is hardly a leap. the guy allergic to bees sees bees everywhere. 

and objectively, cuba does have excellent healthcare. coulda' mentioned education as well. say good things 'bout cuba which is true don't bother us none. however, granting asylum to revolutionaries is kinda a subjective compliment and we would balk at making this a blanket positive for cuba given fact a few o' those revolutionaries granted asylum were involved in considerable violence against civilian populations. *shrug*

am thinking recent gd has been channeling his inner vol with often self contradictory posts, and now you is unabashed going after blm and antifa based on random bits o' nothing pulled from the internet w/o stopping to reflect.

am not agreeing with the majority (90%) o' the released statement in your linked story, but am genuine having no idea who released the statement and am certain we can say is not representing blm as a whole 'cause there is no specific person or group o' people who speak for blm. is no blm party or blm President or Congress. blm is a movement and not an organization. duh.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we got nothing but contempt for antifa, but they too is a movement as 'posed to a singular organization. "If you look at the people that have been arrested for that, by and large, I mean, it's the boogaloo movement or it's an association with QAnon. It's the right side of the spectrum. It is not antifa." She's (edit: "she" is former dhs official and trump appointee, Elizabeth Neumann) unequivocal about this: "The threat of domestic terrorism is not from antifa. It is from these right-wing movements." antifa raison dêtre is bonkers and if they ever do become organized and serious they will be a threat 'cause they embrace violence and is willing to use violence to silence those who disagree with their worldview. again, nothing but contempt for antifa even if they is hardly a problem at the moment. 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Gromnir

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

46 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Cuba has normal trade and relationships with 205 of them but it’s all our fault?

It's a mistake to blame the present hyper-inflation solely on the embargo (covid and day zero are bigger factors), but acting as if it has no effect is equally asinine. Even if Cuba imported nothing from the US, securing investment would be significantly easier if the embargo was not in place.

41 minutes ago, Malcador said:

 

Freedom bombs lmao

[Sarex]

51 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Are you saying that the additional 228 miles from the Port of Miami to the Port of Havana is what broke the camels back?

 

35 minutes ago, Malcador said:

They'd have to sacrifice US access for Cuba, so, Cuba is always going to lose out, I think. 

[Gfted1]

So the other 205/207 countries (I didnt fact check this) that have normal trade relations with Cuba will lose access to US ports, if they themselves import something directly to Cuba?

[Sarex]

7 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

So the other 205/207 countries (I didnt fact check this) that have normal trade relations with Cuba will lose access to US ports, if they themselves import something directly to Cuba?

To put it in simple terms they can't use the same ship to sell in Cuba and the US. Most of the things that are sent via shipping containers would not be profitable to send, it's the big ticket items that usually pay for the shipping container, then rest of the stuff that fills it is just extra at that point. Cuba doesn't buy the big ticket items so it's not profitable to send them the small stuff.

[Gromnir]

pps

am gonna observe, once again, how blm is a movement and not an organization, but am also thinking such a fact is kinda chicken sh!te. when somebody affiliated with blm does something bad, blm folks is quick to point out that they ain't an organization. is no leader to condemn bad behaviour. is no organization to take responsibility when individual blm protesters go too far and indulge in violence. nevertheless, is clear some blm folks wanna trademark and make press releases. serious? can't legit have both ways. can't avoid responsibility while claiming a right to speak for the movement as a whole.

if blm wants to become an organization, then they is gonna need some kinda leadership and at such a point they is gonna be embracing responsibility for those acting on behalf o' the organization. will also be making your leadership targetable by unsympathetic government agencies. particular after trump am not certain most people involved in blm wanna go that route. nevertheless, until the time blm wants to genuine organize, press releases and statements from one o' the dozens o' groups claiming to be a voice for blm is doing little save giving consumers o' alt-right media a target for their misdirected venom. counterproductive.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Gromnir

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/kremlin-papers-appear-to-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house

Democrats still on the whole "Russians did it!1!" spiel I see

I'm sure the entire 1/3 or so of the country who donned MAGA hats and embraced fascism openly and probably can't even find Russia on the map are somehow Kremlin agents as well, right?

Spoiler

 

But what do I care, U.S. glaring problems with far right political capital and massive inequality were there long before Trump.  Call me an accelerationist, but the right going even more bonkers than they already were gives us an opportunity brainstorm solutions far quicker and better.

The sooner we duke it out and set the record straight, the better.  The far right vs. everyone else.

Is it me or is neo-fascism less organized and more haphazard and grimy then the European fascists of the 20th century?  They seem more libertarian than authoritarian these days, though it's still definitely fascist ideology at the core, as the video demonstrates.

[Gorth]

7 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

So the other 205/207 countries (I didnt fact check this) that have normal trade relations with Cuba will lose access to US ports, if they themselves import something directly to Cuba?

Not quite. Any company doing business with Cuba loses access to doing business with any US company (and subsidiaries of US companies). Let's see... balancing access to the Cuban market with access the US market? Tough choice (not really). It's cheaper than using ships to blockade the island (which hasn't been used since the missile crisis)

[Gorth]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57846200

"At least 70 people have died in Germany and Belgium after record rainfall caused rivers to burst their banks.

Most of the victims were in Germany, but at least 11 have died in Belgium, with more reported missing.

The German states of Rhineland-Palatinate and North Rhine-Westphalia were worst hit, but the Netherlands is also badly affected."

 

The Northern Hemisphere is having some extreme weather patterns too this year it seems.

[Gorth]

Speaking of climate change, I've occasionally pointed out how our notorious liar and fossil fuel company pet, Scott Morrison, and his almost comically incompetent liberal government (not to be confused with the US use of the word liberal, here it means the opposite), is running the country into the ground at an impressive speed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/16/not-engaging-isnt-the-answer-australia-under-pressure-as-us-follows-eu-lead-on-carbon-tariffs

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57845171

"The measure was confirmed yesterday in the EU's sweeping new climate plan.

Such a tax would make exporters to the EU pay more for goods like steel and cement, to level the playing field for European firms paying carbon permits.

But Australia has argued that such a tariff would be "protectionist" and could breach trade rules."

 

The latter beeing particularly funny, labeling it "protectionist", charging the same tax on imports as domestic companies have to pay.

It's all about sticking your head in the sand and all the moves he's made so far to undermine any attempt at reduce CO2 emissions might come to naught.

I previously mentioned how the man is fighting windmills. What few people know is, it's to be taken literally. He really does try to crack down on wind energy, solar energy and other attempts at making alternative energy usable, as it threatens the companies holding his leash.

[Zoraptor]

Eh, much as I loathe Scummo I'd be extremely skeptical about any EU measures not being stealth protectionism designed to get around WTO rules. It's very easy for both sides to be right/ wrong (depending how you look at it) at the same time.

Random example: I always have a good laugh about Euros who think buying local meat is more carbon efficient than imported meat from New Zealand, when in reality the imported meat has a considerably smaller carbon footprint- specifically because we have basically zero supplementary feeding here, whereas a lot of the EU has animals in barns eating 20kg/ month/ stock unit of extremely environmentally friendly and completely not grown on old rainforest areas imported Brazilian corn, and strangely enough those carbon miles add up a lot quicker than a single trip by 5kg of lamb. You can absolutely guarantee though that if they do carbon pricing it will be on the end trip the meat makes, not the ones all the feed is coming in on, and they won't tackle how hopelessly inefficient- and carbon obnoxious- the CAP makes their agriculture.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Zoraptor

[Guard Dog]

12 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you do realize there is no official blm... anything. is no blm organization. there has been dozens o' attempts to trademark blm and they has all failed. main reason for such failure is the obvious foundational issue that no single group claiming to speak for blm has any authority at law or based on tradition to do so. again, dozens o' different blm all claiming right to trademark. is no official blm leadership and we would dare you to name (without the benefit o' an internet search engine) the most important leaders in the blm movement. indeed, blm is a movement o' disparate and often conflicting groups from across the nation and now around the globe.

tell us a bunch o' minority progressives is blaming the US for cuba's problems? am not shocked. not genuine appalled neither. if you (mistaken) see all your problems as somehow originating from one monolithic source (the US government,) then believe the problems o' cubans derive from the same source is hardly a leap. the guy allergic to bees sees bees everywhere. 

and objectively, cuba does have excellent healthcare. coulda' mentioned education as well. say good things 'bout cuba which is true don't bother us none. however, granting asylum to revolutionaries is kinda a subjective compliment and we would balk at making this a blanket positive for cuba given fact a few o' those revolutionaries granted asylum were involved in considerable violence against civilian populations. *shrug*

am thinking recent gd has been channeling his inner vol with often self contradictory posts, and now you is unabashed going after blm and antifa based on random bits o' nothing pulled from the internet w/o stopping to reflect.

am not agreeing with the majority (90%) o' the released statement in your linked story, but am genuine having no idea who released the statement and am certain we can say is not representing blm as a whole 'cause there is no specific person or group o' people who speak for blm. is no blm party or blm President or Congress. blm is a movement and not an organization. duh.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we got nothing but contempt for antifa, but they too is a movement as 'posed to a singular organization. "If you look at the people that have been arrested for that, by and large, I mean, it's the boogaloo movement or it's an association with QAnon. It's the right side of the spectrum. It is not antifa." She's (edit: "she" is former dhs official and trump appointee, Elizabeth Neumann) unequivocal about this: "The threat of domestic terrorism is not from antifa. It is from these right-wing movements." antifa raison dêtre is bonkers and if they ever do become organized and serious they will be a threat 'cause they embrace violence and is willing to use violence to silence those who disagree with their worldview. again, nothing but contempt for antifa even if they is hardly a problem at the moment. 

 

OK, BLM is not an organization no. Or at least it is not well organized. But it DOES have leaders, founders, supporters, and of course spineless supplicants and ass lickers. No shortage of those. Personally I was pretty neutral on it last year because they DID have a legit gripe. I was a little put off when a black cop was murdered during one of those non-violent protests where people were killed and stuff burned down. Not a word about HIS life.  I guess his life didn't matter. I was amused by the whole Patrice Cullors business. They certainly freaked out and turned on one of their own "founders" when they found out she had a nice house near white people. Can't be a good communist that way can she? Don't really care but did find it amusing. But this business... they are flat out praising evil. They can hide behind the polite fiction that they are not an "organization" but someone is running their Instagram account and not one so called supporter has uttered a word to refute any of it.  And by they way my "limited" story that I linked had their statement in it's entirety. That is specifically WHY I links THAT story. The USA Today, ABC News, and CNN versions omitted the part where they stood by the Cuban government and printed in full their blaming the whole thing on the US. Go figure. 

And no, Cuba does NOT have an "objectively good" health system. I'm curious how many Cubans you personally know. Oh if you are connected to the government or live in Havana you will likely be OK. Otherwise if you need something more than stitches or an antibiotic you are in trouble. My first wife's parents were Cuban. They fled to the US in the 1960's. Her uncle was executed  by the Castro Regime along with thousands of other for voting in the 1958 election after Castro and the rebels demanded that all Cubans boycott. Praising the Cuban Government is almost no better than praising Hitler and the Nazis or Stalin and the Bolsheviks. 

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

OK, BLM is not an organization no. Or at least it is not well organized. But it DOES have leaders, founders, supporters, and of course spineless supplicants and ass lickers. No shortage of those. Personally I was pretty neutral on it last year because they DID have a legit gripe. I was a little put off when a black cop was murdered during one of those non-violent protests where people were killed and stuff burned down. Not a word about HIS life.  I guess his life didn't matter. I was amused by the whole Patrice Cullors business. They certainly freaked out and turned on one of their own "founders" when they found out she had a nice house near white people. Can't be a good communist that way can she? Don't really care but did find it amusing. But this business... they are flat out praising evil. They can hide behind the polite fiction that they are not an "organization" but someone is running their Instagram account and not one so called supporter has uttered a word to refute any of it.  And by they way my "limited" story that I linked had their statement in it's entirety. That is specifically WHY I links THAT story. The USA Today, ABC News, and CNN versions omitted the part where they stood by the Cuban government and printed in full their blaming the whole thing on the US. Go figure. 

And no, Cuba does NOT have an "objectively good" health system. I'm curious how many Cubans you personally know. Oh if you are connected to the government or live in Havana you will likely be OK. Otherwise if you need something more than stitches or an antibiotic you are in trouble. My first wife's parents were Cuban. They fled to the US in the 1960's. Her uncle was executed  by the Castro Regime along with thousands of other for voting in the 1958 election after Castro and the rebels demanded that all Cubans boycott. Praising the Cuban Government is almost no better than praising Hitler and the Nazis or Stalin and the Bolsheviks. 

I agree about the reality and strength of the Cuban health system, people believe they have this strong health system?

Maybe in the 1960's-1980's but not anymore. South Africa has this misplaced view we " owe " Cuba for their ideological support of Socialism and the ANC during the Cold War but the Soviets and Cubans only supported liberation movements like the ANC because it was a the Cold War. The Cold War ended 30 years and countries like Cuba and Russia pulled out of Africa decades ago 

Anyway we have been sending small amounts of students to Cuba to get " medical training" as doctors and we have to pay for it. But when they come back to SA its been found they have to be recertified on several things. So sending people to Cuba when we have our own effective universities that educates students around medicine has been a huge waste of time because the Cuban education system is outdated and under resourced

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2020-04-29-where-are-all-the-south-africans-trained-as-doctors-in-cuba/

Also the virus is running rampant in Cuba, one of the reasons for the current protests, so to look at Cuba as a success of dealing with the virus is a false  narrative and inaccurate

Edited July 16, 2021 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

12 hours ago, Gromnir said:

pps

am gonna observe, once again, how blm is a movement and not an organization, but am also thinking such a fact is kinda chicken sh!te. when somebody affiliated with blm does something bad, blm folks is quick to point out that they ain't an organization. is no leader to condemn bad behaviour. is no organization to take responsibility when individual blm protesters go too far and indulge in violence. nevertheless, is clear some blm folks wanna trademark and make press releases. serious? can't legit have both ways. can't avoid responsibility while claiming a right to speak for the movement as a whole.

if blm wants to become an organization, then they is gonna need some kinda leadership and at such a point they is gonna be embracing responsibility for those acting on behalf o' the organization. will also be making your leadership targetable by unsympathetic government agencies. particular after trump am not certain most people involved in blm wanna go that route. nevertheless, until the time blm wants to genuine organize, press releases and statements from one o' the dozens o' groups claiming to be a voice for blm is doing little save giving consumers o' alt-right media a target for their misdirected venom. counterproductive.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I agree, BLM is a nebulous organization that has no clear leadership structure and no one who takes responsibility for words and comments said in the public arena 

So when are we going to see someone taking responsibly because we see actions and protests on the ground but no accountability ?

[BruceVC]

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/trending/406212-food-and-fuel-shortages-hit-parts-of-south-africa.html

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/506136/economic-impact-of-riots-and-looting-in-south-africa-and-wider-emerging-problems/

The outcome of the looting and criminality that has gripped 2 provinces in SA over the last 5  days can be summarized in different ways but the main points are 

• over 150 people killed
• over 2000 people arrested
• massive food and fuel shortages as transport of goods is severely impacted or trucks carrying goods have been destroyed or burnt on our national roads 
• anything from 20-40 billion Rands damage to the provinces economy
• hospitals and clinics in rural areas have been destroyed
• tens of thousands of people people will have lost their jobs as businesses have been destroyed
• the poor get poorer and inequality will increase

And we have to deal with the rampant spread of the virus

And I hear comments from small groups of so called socialists globally  that these types of violent " revolutions " are an effective way to implement economic change in any Constitutional Democracy  ....yeah right, tell me another one 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 They can hide behind the polite fiction that they are not an "organization" but someone is running their Instagram account and not one so called supporter has uttered a word to refute any of it. 

who the hell is "they" and what makes the account "theirs"? 

you spoke of obstinacy previous, but you are offering a master class in it at the moment. just because there is a blm logo attached to a post from an account which has words corresponding with blm in the address don't make it any more "they" or "theirs" than any o' those innumerable "official" kardashian accounts. the folks who posted the statement can't get a freaking trademark for their logo precise 'cause they don't represent blm in any meaningful way, but because their statements fit your narrative o' what you expect them and they to say, you embrace obstinacy. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2315760/

The new Cuban government in 1959 began overhauling the for-profit health system which, 30 years later, resulted in free health services for all its citizens which is integrated with national social and economic development. Life expectancy in Cuba is higher than that of the US (72.5 vs. 71.9). Health workers have eliminated polio, tuberculosis, typhoid fever, and diphtheria. Malnutrition incidence amount 1-15 years olds is 0.7% compared with 5% in the US. The Cuban health system began in the 1960s as a curative system based in hospitals but shifted during the 1970s and 1980s to a primary health care system based in communities. It consists of 6 hierarchical, interlocking levels: national health institutes and hospital centers (quaternary care-super specialty), provincial hospitals (tertiary care-high specialty), municipal hospitals (secondary care-specialty), area health centers (primary or community care) serving 25,000-30,000 people, sector polyclinics serving 4000-5000 people, and minipolyclinics served by a family physician team (family physician, nurse, and social worker) covering 600-700 people. The family physician team strategy has strengthened disease surveillance and completed information about health status and characteristics of neighborhoods. Neighborhood residents determine their own health care and protection. In fact, volunteer brigades build minipolyclinics and housing for family physicians and nurses. Critics of the Cuban health care system claim that the physician-to-population ratio is too high and that it makes up too much of the gross national product (almost 15%). 

etc.

now keep in mind is an apples v. oranges situation. the annual per capita gdp o' cuba is less than $9k compared to US o' more than $65k. nevertheless, thanks to obstinacy, gd ain't even willing to concede that point, eh? if were no better than stitches kinda first aid, life expectancy wouldn't be better in cuba than the US, though admitted such were pre pandemic. in spite o' devastating sanctions and an embargo by the most powerful economic force on the planet, cuban health care, by numerous objective measures such as life expectancy and childhood malnutrition, is doing better than the US... which is not saying cuban is better than the US, but again, we are comparing vast different economic situations and the fact cuba is beating the US in numerous objective measures should be embarrassing.

dog with a bone.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

who the hell is "they" and what makes the account "theirs"? 

you spoke of obstinacy previous, but you are offering a master class in it at the moment. just because there is a blm logo attached to a post from an account which has words corresponding with blm in the address don't make it any more "they" or "theirs" than any o' those innumerable "official" kardashian accounts. the folks who posted the statement can't get a freaking trademark for their logo precise 'cause they don't represent blm in any meaningful way, but because their statements fit your narrative o' what you expect them and they to say, you embrace obstinacy. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2315760/

The new Cuban government in 1959 began overhauling the for-profit health system which, 30 years later, resulted in free health services for all its citizens which is integrated with national social and economic development. Life expectancy in Cuba is higher than that of the US (72.5 vs. 71.9). Health workers have eliminated polio, tuberculosis, typhoid fever, and diphtheria. Malnutrition incidence amount 1-15 years olds is 0.7% compared with 5% in the US. The Cuban health system began in the 1960s as a curative system based in hospitals but shifted during the 1970s and 1980s to a primary health care system based in communities. It consists of 6 hierarchical, interlocking levels: national health institutes and hospital centers (quaternary care-super specialty), provincial hospitals (tertiary care-high specialty), municipal hospitals (secondary care-specialty), area health centers (primary or community care) serving 25,000-30,000 people, sector polyclinics serving 4000-5000 people, and minipolyclinics served by a family physician team (family physician, nurse, and social worker) covering 600-700 people. The family physician team strategy has strengthened disease surveillance and completed information about health status and characteristics of neighborhoods. Neighborhood residents determine their own health care and protection. In fact, volunteer brigades build minipolyclinics and housing for family physicians and nurses. Critics of the Cuban health care system claim that the physician-to-population ratio is too high and that it makes up too much of the gross national product (almost 15%). 

etc.

now keep in mind is an apples v. oranges situation. the annual per capita gdp o' cuba is less than $9k compared to US o' more than $65k. nevertheless, thanks to obstinacy, gd ain't even willing to concede that point, eh? if were no better than stitches kinda first aid, life expectancy wouldn't be better in cuba than the US, though admitted such were pre pandemic. in spite o' devastating sanctions and an embargo by the most powerful economic force on the planet, cuban health care, by numerous objective measures such as life expectancy and childhood malnutrition, is doing better than the US... which is not saying cuban is better than the US, but again, we are comparing vast different economic situations and the fact cuba is beating the US in numerous objective measures should be embarrassing.

dog with a bone.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Gromnir I mentioned that the actual knowledge  what Cuba is teaching people around medicine is outdated

This is not my opinion because I dont like socialist  countries and believe they represent mostly failed states. They do but that is not the point

We have SA doctors who come back from Cuban with so called " training on medicine " but they dont get deployed because they need retraining and dont understand aspects of modern medicine 

And I would argue that represents most of their education system in Cuba because we have same issue with Cuban engineers who we import. The Cuban engineers and doctors quite simply lack the updated and relevant qualification. So I am not sure how anyone can say " Cuba has a good and modern healthcare system "

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/394813-cuban-engineers-not-registered-to-work-in-south-africa.html