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The all things Poltical topic - We bear our banners aloft, boots like Drums Our Cadence quick, our countenance dire.


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Hello everybody. I am your new landlord. Welcome to all prospective tenants who wants to set up shop in this thread.

 

We are currently working on a plan that will give prolific posters a discount, lowering the price of each post they wish to submit 😇

 

I'll become so stinking rich in no time! 🤑

 

💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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  • Gorth changed the title to The all things Poltical topic - We bear our banners aloft, boots like Drums Our Cadence quick, our countenance dire.

Tail end of previous conversation...

In reverse order??? Thank you Forum software 😖

 

17 hours ago, Malcador said:

Those Mesothelioma lawyers have a golden opportunity here.

 

18 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

I don’t have Fox News anymore. It went with the DIRECTV. However I think people are mistaking commentary for news reporting. Tucker Carlson and whatever gang they have on at night are commentators. They can get up there and say anything they want and it does not necessarily have to be factual. It’s their opinions. If Fox News on a news report says “this is so“. I expect that it will be. Even if it’s only from a certain point of view. Same with CNN or MSNBC. Carlson, Maddow, insert commentator name here are bound only by their personal sense of ethics if they even have one. But I think facts presented as a fact can be expected to be a fact. “The President went here today and said this: yardda yadda yadda” . After that the anchor will no doubt turn to a commentator who will give an opinion on it that’s where the news ends and the opinions start. People have to be sophisticated enough to know the difference. And if they’re not well that’s why we have so many idiots running around storming capitals and what not.
 

Like I have said many times the news media is not here to inform you. They are here to tell you a story. They will tell you everything you need to know to flesh out that story. And while everything in the news report might be true it is certainly not all the truth. It might not be presented in a way that suggests an honest recounting of the facts.

 

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

keep in mind, trump's kraken lawyer tried to use the tucker carlson defense recent.

You Literally Can't Believe The Facts Tucker Carlson Tells You. So Say Fox's Lawyers

conclusion: reasonable people do not believe fox.

the thing is, civil litigation ordinarily uses a reasonable person standard. criminal is different. for many crimes with a common law origin you need actual intent. however, there is a whole bunch o' statutory crimes where your intent is a non-factor. simple example: if your speedometer is busted and you didn't know you were traveling at excess speeds, you will still be given a speeding ticket and you won't be able to claim your busted speedometer as a defense. 

foxitis might seem like twinkie defense kinda stuff, but diminished mental capacity is not new and foxitis might not be as ludicrous an option as it first appears. won't be just foxitis or foxmania, but show that fox viewing exacerbated some kinda preexisting mental defect could be enough to reduce or even eliminate charges in a few situations.  is still kinda a desperation defense, but is not hard to imagine that a few o' these clowns is, from a legal pov, defective. 

would be amusing if fox were compelled to add a warning to their broadcasts informing viewers the risks to susceptible viewers o' watching their programing.

HA! Good Fun!

 

19 hours ago, Gromnir said:

if you got $100k and wanna get into residential real estate, you can buy a cheap $100k property and rent it, or you can buy five rental properties with the $100k acting as down payment money, leaving you with multiple mortgages to nurse. 1 property and 1 rent v. 5 (or more) properties and 5 rents ordinarily is an ez choice. 'tween property taxes, mortgages and unavoidable upkeep and repair costs, rents is not gonna make you rich, but one assumes the equity is gonna be the payoff when you sell those multiple properties. can be a big risk, and if you get caught in a situation such as we had 2008, then you are screwed unless you can hold on for the years is gonna take for the market to recover, which it will do, inevitable and eventual.

'course there is a whole lotta landlords who is indeed living off their rents. the seventy year old we mentioned earlier is not an example we imagined outta the ether but is somebody we know. she is hardly a singular example. no sympathy for her and those like her.

for Gromnir, rent is just kinda gravy, but am knowing how lucky we are. nevertheless, am tired o' the hassles and am gonna sell remaining properties sooner rather than later. had one lease just end april 31, but am letting the the tenant (a single mom) and her kids stay on month-to-month 'til at least next year as the current rental inventory in this area is near non-existent and am knowing she would have few options if she had to find a new place to live. if we lose a little money by not selling right now, is not a big deal to us in the long run, but our blasé attitude is not how you survive in residential real estate. twenty or fifteen years ago and we woulda' been a bit less huggable as we were on the proverbial razor's edge more than a few times.

HA! Good Fun!

 

19 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I too had a good experience with tenants. When I got out of the military I rented out my very first starter home and after a few years they asked to buy it, so I sold it. But I didnt handle it myself, I hired a real estate company (I think it was Century 21), and at that time their services cost 10% of whatever the rent was. But for that price they always had a tenant in it and if anything needed fixing they would send over the appropriate trade. It was easy peasy and I simply set the rent amount to cover my mortgage and the 10% handling fee.

 

19 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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So I read today that the peoples Republic of China produces more carbon and greenhouse gas than all other nations combined. What are they going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing. By the way they are also the ones that are rattling everyone’s cages and basically threatening to go to war with everyone. But all the world organizations kiss their ass. I have to say sometimes that’s hard to fathom

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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58 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read today that the peoples Republic of China produces more carbon and greenhouse gas than all other nations combined. What are they going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing. By the way they are also the ones that are rattling everyone’s cages and basically threatening to go to war with everyone. But all the world organizations kiss their ass. I have to say sometimes that’s hard to fathom

I'll just put this here for future references so I can go back some day and say "I told you so" (to the world), China is going to be the biggest threat to the world in the twenty first century....

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I'll just put this here for future references so I can go back some day and say "I told you so" (to the world), China is going to be the biggest threat to the world in the twenty first century....

In the next 48 hours somewhere between latitudes 40 and 50 N. one of their rockets is going to crash. Quality control and safety are not words that can be attributed to Chinese industry. We have a store here in the United States called Harbor freight. They sell really cheap and really low quality tools all made in China. Nobody with any sense buys them. I sure as heck wouldn’t get under a car that was jacked up on one of their Jack’s

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read today that the peoples Republic of China produces more carbon and greenhouse gas than all other nations combined. What are they going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing. By the way they are also the ones that are rattling everyone’s cages and basically threatening to go to war with everyone. But all the world organizations kiss their ass. I have to say sometimes that’s hard to fathom

All developed countries, not all countries. It's around 27%. The US is still ahead on per-capita emissions.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read today that the peoples Republic of China produces more carbon and greenhouse gas than all other nations combined. What are they going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing. By the way they are also the ones that are rattling everyone’s cages and basically threatening to go to war with everyone. But all the world organizations kiss their ass. I have to say sometimes that’s hard to fathom

Your point about China and its carbon producing levels is correct but its not accurate that no one does anything about the Chinese aggression or that organizations dont care about this. Remember a company or country invested in China has to balance the response to the actual issue that China has committed and we now know how you can cause the Chinese to be wary and aware of consequence. Trump gets recognition for this when we observed how the Chinese became unusually muted and allowed endless personal attacks on them by Trump and some of his advisors like Peter Navarro during the recent USA vs China trade wars. China only started responding and banning Trumps advisors after Trump lost 

So this shows us what is the strategy that would cause any  country  to change its political views and its basically economic damage and types of economic punitive steps like tariffs and sanctions and these can take time but they do work. So unintentionally  what you suggesting is that organizations pull their investments out of China to send a message and yes this will have an impact but what about  the cost the company ? For me I dont believe its worth the economic damage at the moment because the Chinese are grandstanding and using their own type of brinkmanship when it comes to their own hegemony and threats 

And as far as the  appalling human rights decisions that the Chinese are involved in with the Chinese Muslims and HK as much as I deplore their actions the reality is these things are happening within their own borders and again its not the right reason to pull out if I was personally invested

Please dont think I am suggesting we ignore human rights abuse due to profit, I am saying not all human rights developments should be highlighted by countries like the USA  or the EU. I would expect to see the Muslim world and their countries call out the Chinese abuse....but if they aren't prepared to do it I would leave it and continue to trade with China

 

37 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I'll just put this here for future references so I can go back some day and say "I told you so" (to the world), China is going to be the biggest threat to the world in the twenty first century....

I agree its one of the threats but it can be handled and you can cause them to change course or be aware of the price of consequence but this comes with its own price around the reciprocal damage Chinese tariffs will cause  and the fact any country will also suffer due to an outcome that the Chinese economy shrinks ...and this is not good when it comes to sectors like energy and mining because the Chinese do buy these resources from numerous countries like SA

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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46 minutes ago, rjshae said:

All developed countries, not all countries. It's around 27%. The US is still ahead on per-capita emissions.

You’re right. I stand corrected. I read that wrong.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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12 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

"Chinese aggression"

how many women and children have they droned lately?

Ever heard of the Uighurs?

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

"Chinese aggression"

how many women and children have they droned lately?

No thats just one metric for reviewing aggression or violence and its also a very specific example of  aggression that is used primarily by the USA in the war on terror in difficult but understandable examples 

I dont like to use the word aggression because we need to separate internal Chinese aggression from international decisions the CCP make that are seen as belligerent and increasing tension in the region

Also we never frame drone strikes as targeting women and children because the targets are always Islamic extremist fighter, warlords , Taliban elders etc. 

Drone strikes are not intentionally targeted at women or children but yes mistakes happen or targets can have civilians with them and yes then we see collateral damage but this is not  the intention of the strike 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Drone strikes are not intentionally targeted at women or children but yes mistakes happen or targets can have civilians with them and yes then we see collateral damage but this is not  the intention of the strike 

Who needs drones when you've got 21 tonnes of space junk left to its own devices, which is going to hit a random place between New York and Canberra anytime within the next few hours 😛

 

Edit: Do you count the cultural genocide and the ethnic cleansing in Tibet an internal Chinese affair? I.e. do you accept China's claim that Tibet was always part of China? (if so, I would like to show you some old maps)

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

 

 

Edit: Do you count the cultural genocide and the ethnic cleansing in Tibet an internal Chinese affair? I.e. do you accept China's claim that Tibet was always part of China? (if so, I would like to show you some old maps)

 

Good question, I dont know enough about it but the Chinese do think its their territory...they make claims that are difficult to corroborate 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Good question, I dont know enough about it but the Chinese do think its their territory...they make claims that are difficult to corroborate 

Their claims are based on military conquest. It depends on whether you consider such claims legitimate?

Tibet and China around 850ce. The Tibetan Empire fragmented into smaller realms, ruled by local Tibetan warlords.

ilhmuhwko2i61.jpg

Tibet around 1931 during the Sino-Tibetan war, where Chiang Kaicheck waged a war of conquest against Tibet:

https://omniatlas.com/maps/southern-asia/19310326/

The battle of Chamdo in 1950 where Chinese forces eventually overran Tibet and seized it (edit: and it has been held occupied since that, despite the occasional uprising and revolts against the occupation):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo

 

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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In the second half of the 19th century when foreign devils stole huge chunks of China, the British instigated an uprising in Xinjiang. 20 million people died in that war mostly unknown in the west.

ZH1WTCw.png

Nowadays those same British are bleating about "genocide" in Xinjiang.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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13 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

In the second half of the 19th century when foreign devils stole huge chunks of China, the British instigated an uprising in Xinjiang. 20 million people died in that war mostly unknown in the west.

image

Nowadays those same British are bleating about "genocide" in Xinjiang.

so, not just whataboutism, but 200 years removed whataboutism?

what the british or americans or leprechauns did wrong two hundred years past does not some how diminish the evils being exacted upon the uyghurs of 2021.

hoon wastes an opportunity. why not blame on the greeks and their slavery and misogynism? clearly western culture was bankrupt long before the british, no? 

is a desperation move to embrace the putin/trump playbook on deflection.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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30 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Nowadays those same British are bleating about "genocide" in Xinjiang.

I highly doubt it's the same British

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3 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I highly doubt it's the same British

The British upper class are all undead, so it may very well be.

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13 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I highly doubt it's the same British

hoon's deflection would still be wrong if china were putting british citizens in "reeducation" camps, and utilizing systematic sterilizing to decrease the brit population, but it might have a kinda misplaced justice appeal for some folks. couldn't even manage that, so somehow the uyghurs become the target o' china's suffering at the hands o' western devils, which makes no sense whatsoever.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

In the next 48 hours somewhere between latitudes 40 and 50 N. one of their rockets is going to crash. Quality control and safety are not words that can be attributed to Chinese industry.

Sigh.

I mean, we could go back to Skylab crashing over Australia- at the risk of it being labeled 40 year old whataboutism, I guess- or bits of the Space Shuttle distributing itself over NM, AZ and TX, but we really don't need to. The same thing happened literally a month a go (OK, not literally literally a month ago, in happened in... March) to SpaceX.

The reality is that space is hard and doesn't pick sides based on geopolitical prejudices.

3 hours ago, HoonDing said:

In the second half of the 19th century when foreign devils stole huge chunks of China, the British instigated an uprising in Xinjiang. 20 million people died in that war mostly unknown in the west.

Nowadays those same British are bleating about "genocide" in Xinjiang.

Not bad, not bad at all. Triggers those who know nothing about the subject, also triggers those who do know something about it.

(For anyone wondering: Dungan Revolt. Bonus contemporaneous war that killed more than WW1 but you've never heard of: Taiping (Heavenly Kingdom) Rebellion)

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hoon were gonna take the uyghur bait regardless. other folks you need only mention putin or whataboutism.  predictable ain't necessarily a bad thing, but is ez to review the thread and see which fish were landed this time.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Posted (edited)

HD was, as always, trolling and it's absolutely obvious if you have any background in the subject; there was no bait to take because his 'pro China' stance is entirely predicated on getting knee jerk responses for his own amusement. The beauty about it is that he also manages to troll in such a way that anyone who is actually pro China gets riled too- and probably ends up admitting to all sorts of crappy stuff that actually did happen while trying to correct the inaccuracies. That too is obvious, if you have any background in the subject.

Kills the 'beauty' of it a bit to explain, but... it wasn't a Xinjiang uprising, 20 million didn't die (that's the estimate for those displaced), 20 million couldn't have died in a Xinjiang uprising in the 19th century because it's very cold and very arid and the population was almost entirely nomadic herders; its current pop is only 25 million after massive settlement programs. It also wasn't instigated by the British, who at the time were busy propping up the Qing against the aforementioned Heavenly Kingdom. Apart from the last, pretty basic stuff really if most people's knowledge of Xinjiang wasn't #stopkony2012 tier slacktivism; and even the last might beg the question of how the Brits were instigating anything several thousand km away from their bases, up against the Russian border. But if you explain how it's wrong you end up explaining that China actually 'only' murdered around 4 million muslims and depopulated two states (neither Xinjiang, and both predominantly Han Chinese; the Xinjiang depopulation actually came a century earlier) prior to what is currently happening in Xinjiang now.

So on one hand you potentially catch a bunch of knee jerking sinophobe gwailos taking everything at face value, on the other you potentially get wumao admitting to China slaughtering millions previously to correct the erroneous 20 million claim. Win win.

 

Edited by Zoraptor
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Posted (edited)

*chuckle*

HA! Good Fun!

ps hoon, as we has noted multiple times in the past, does drive-by posts. nobody should take serious. nevertheless, he near always responds to china. 

 others have their triggers and appear far more invested than hoon. 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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10 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

In the next 48 hours somewhere between latitudes 40 and 50 N. one of their rockets is going to crash. Quality control and safety are not words that can be attributed to Chinese industry. We have a store here in the United States called Harbor freight. They sell really cheap and really low quality tools all made in China. Nobody with any sense buys them. I sure as heck wouldn’t get under a car that was jacked up on one of their Jack’s

Eh, probably will much ado about nothing in the end. Helps to play up EVIL CHINA, I am noticing.

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

or bits of the Space Shuttle distributing itself over NM, AZ and TX, but we really don't need to

Wasn't that due to a disaster, though ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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21 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Eh, probably will much ado about nothing in the end. Helps to play up EVIL CHINA, I am noticing.

Wasn't that due to a disaster, though ?

the original criticism were quality control o' chinese products, so a faulty O-ring is actual more appropriate than skylab if you are trying to make parallels. skylab were original launched in the early/mid 70s(?) and were a jerry-rigged conversion o' a saturn (?) rocket. @Guard Dog would know the details. plan were to eventual have the space shuttle boost skylab but with all the shuttle development delays...

space shuttle were avoidable.

skylab were a series o' unforeseen events culminating in a margin of error math fail, but isn't as if skylab tumbling down were 'cause o' bad design. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps (edit) again, would be better to ask gd, but am thinking the first successful multistage rockets were tested in the late 40s. landing on the moon and successful deployment o' skylab happened in a relative eye blink, with the soviets making near all the milestone firsts until kennedy got elected on a platform o' chinese and soviet opposition. 

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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