The All Things Political Thread (The World and US Reunited)

[rjshae]

Speaking of cable news...

[Guard Dog]

Two thoughts on the Cuomo thing.

1. I am really surprised  he did not trot out the old “vast right wing conspiracy” saw.

2. The Democrats actually turned on one of their own. Usually they will defend, downplay, ignore, obfuscate, and redirect. No matter how horrible the person or terrible the act they didn’t eat their own. It could be that bunch is not entirely without some redeeming quality. Maybe not. Meanwhile it seems the Republicans have been acting much more like Democrats used to recently. Of course they are now the modern day “know nothings” back after a 180 year hiatus. So don’t bother looking for redeeming qualities in that lot.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Bartimaeus]

Al Franken?

...Crappy part is, Al Franken was one of the better senators around (in terms of actually doing their job).

Edited March 12, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

29 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Al Franken?

...Crappy part is, Al Franken was one of the better senators around (in terms of actually doing their job).

gd comments is particular funny given the schnook du jour is cuomo, the democrat governor o' ny. (pause to let people reflect) nothing? am suspecting a few folks may need have to google elliot spitzer. might wanna also google recent nj governors (democrat) as well? and has gd already forgot anthony weiner?  keep in mind Gromnir is old enough to be recalling gary hart.

is not always easy to predict when democrats and republicans will dig in to defend one o' their own. perhaps democrats woulda' rallied around franken if not for trump and his numerous sex scandals. with the me too movement in full swing and democrats trying to show they were not hypocrites, franken had zero chance to remain in office. if story broke a few years earlier, who knows if results would be different.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

10 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

gd comments is particular funny given the schnook du jour is cuomo, the democrat governor o' ny. (pause to let people reflect) nothing? am suspecting a few folks may need have to google elliot spitzer. might wanna also google recent nj governors (democrat) as well? and has gd already forgot anthony weiner?  keep in mind Gromnir is old enough to be recalling gary hart.

is not always easy to predict when democrats and republicans will dig in to defend one o' their own. perhaps democrats woulda' rallied around franken if not for trump and his numerous sex scandals. with the me too movement in full swing and democrats trying to show they were not hypocrites, franken had zero chance to remain in office. if story broke a few years earlier, who knows if results would be different.

HA! Good Fun!

 

You are old enough to remember Bill Clinton then. Some of the accusations against him ranged well into the bizarre conspiracy theories territory but quite a few, especially with women, were credible and highly suspicious.

[Gromnir]

Just now, Guard Dog said:

You are old enough to remember Bill Clinton then. Some of the accusations against him ranged well into the bizarre conspiracy theories territory but quite a few, especially with women, were credible and highly suspicious.

 gd accusations o' "credible and highly suspicious" carry zero weight (burisma)  but yeah, clinton were a d-bag. however, most o' the stuff 'bout clinton while in office were rumor and innuendo. am also thinking the democrats following the hart stuff felt like they had made a mistake in not defending the former presidential candidate, but is tough to say with any kinda certainty. more to the point, we specific said it ain't ez to predict democrat or republican defense o' the seeming indefensible. we can list just as many republican defenses and sacrifices over the past five or so decades. were not a democrat thing to defend and a republican quality to cashier. point out single examples is not gonna help gd if we can post a half dozen contradictory. weren't some kinda party trend, on either side o' the aisle.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

15 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

 gd accusations o' "credible and highly suspicious" carry zero weight (burisma)  but yeah, clinton were a d-bag. however, most o' the stuff 'bout clinton while in office were rumor and innuendo. am also thinking the democrats following the hart stuff felt like they had made a mistake in not defending the former presidential candidate, but is tough to say with any kinda certainty. more to the point, we specific said it ain't ez to predict democrat or republican defense o' the seeming indefensible. we can list just as many republican defenses and sacrifices over the past five or so decades. were not a democrat thing to defend and a republican quality to cashier. point out single examples is not gonna help gd if we can post a half dozen contradictory. weren't some kinda party trend, on either side o' the aisle.

HA! Good Fun!

No as I have said many times there are no saints in hell. Trust none of them, believe in nothing they say and they will never disappoint you

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

No as I have said many times there are no saints in hell. Trust none of them, believe in nothing they say and they will never disappoint you

*groan*

dog with a bone. 

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/543030-81-percent-of-republican-voters-hold-favorable-view-of-trump-poll

More destruction of the idiotic theory perpetuated by the likes of @Gromnir that only "white and working class" people support Trump.

The vast majority of Trump supporters are more like "White and Evangelical middle class" and "Classic Republican voter".

Let's add "Supports fascism" to the list as well.

Edited March 13, 2021 by MellowYellow

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Two thoughts on the Cuomo thing.

1. I am really surprised  he did not trot out the old “vast right wing conspiracy” saw.

2. The Democrats actually turned on one of their own. Usually they will defend, downplay, ignore, obfuscate, and redirect. No matter how horrible the person or terrible the act they didn’t eat their own. It could be that bunch is not entirely without some redeeming quality. Maybe not. Meanwhile it seems the Republicans have been acting much more like Democrats used to recently. Of course they are now the modern day “know nothings” back after a 180 year hiatus. So don’t bother looking for redeeming qualities in that lot.

I like Governor Cuomo, he did an excellent job during the first phase of terrible carnage of the pandemic and was an inspiration compared to Trumps misinformation. I also watched his press briefings around these allegations around sexual harassment and he made a fairly convincing argument that he is innocent and  wont just step down

I hope he can salvage his career and keep his job. He claims people have misunderstood his normal way he is with people, he says he is a very touchy person and normally hugs and kisses people as a way of connecting with them in a non-sexual way 

I do think  he needs to change his behavior immediately but I dont think, at the moment with the current allegations, he should resign?

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, MellowYellow said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/543030-81-percent-of-republican-voters-hold-favorable-view-of-trump-poll

More destruction of the idiotic theory perpetuated by the likes of @Gromnir that only "white and working class" people support Trump.

The vast majority of Trump supporters are more like "White and Evangelical middle class" and "Classic Republican voter".

Let's add "Supports fascism" to the list as well.

The thing is Trump did deliver on some real historical Republican objectives like the SC placements and tax breaks

So  I would imagine from a GOP popularity perspective and Republican voters he did do a good job and he did deliver on certain things 

But how his presidency ended with the Capitol violence was enough to put me permanently off ever wanting another 4 years of Trump....nothing is worth him refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election and also how he handled the pandemic in the USA 

[ComradeYellow]

Yes Trump is a fraud and easily manipulated the dumb and hateful GOP base as a whole.

Only a moron would think Trump was any kind of revolutionary leader, but there's still people who cling to that myth apparently.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, MellowYellow said:

Yes Trump is a fraud and easily manipulated the dumb and hateful GOP base as a whole.

Only a moron would think Trump was any kind of revolutionary leader, but there's still people who cling to that myth apparently.

I dont think its helpful to malign millions of US citizens and question their level of intelligence when it comes to "why would you vote for Trump ".  I can give you several reasons why a vote for Trump makes sense for some but I am concerned with a world where people become obsessed with a person in politics and make them into some sort of "cult personality " 

They end up supporting the person irrespective of anything the person says or does and in the case of Trump some of his base decided only his views are true and they seem to ignore all forms of the media unless its Trump or right wing channels like FOX

So you end up with a reality where people make  voting decisions but its not based on being well informed about the actual policies or the persons real behavior . That worries me ?

[ComradeYellow]

45 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I dont think its helpful to malign millions of US citizens and question their level of intelligence when it comes to "why would you vote for Trump ". 

I have staunch Republicans in my own family, and I love them despite their flawed and questionable objectives.   Neo-Nazi's are far worse than them, and all Neo-Nazi's are former Democrats.

My point here is that it's extremely stupid for people on the so called "Left" to label Trump as some kind of working class hero, when it was in fact the entire GOP base who supported him, poor, middle, and rich.

Edited March 13, 2021 by MellowYellow

[Gorth]

Mussolini won the election in 1924... with a coalition of fascists, catholics, liberals (not to be confused with the American use of the word liberal) and conservatives. The parallels (edit: what feels attracted to what) are hard to overlook.

[ComradeYellow]

13 minutes ago, Gorth said:

 (not to be confused with the American use of the word liberal) 

I dunno about that one.  Modern Western liberals seem disturbingly anti-Communist lately, and the basis of fascism IS anti-Communism.

Who knows how this will play out but right now I have a hard time seeing them as allies.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

30 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Mussolini won the election in 1924... with a coalition of fascists, catholics, liberals (not to be confused with the American use of the word liberal) and conservatives. The parallels (edit: what feels attracted to what) are hard to overlook.

Speaking of Mussolini, today I learned that he was funded by the British before becoming Il Duce.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mussolini/how-mussolini-once-worked-for-british-intelligence-idUSTRE59D4MW20091014

Perhaps the US already has a Mussolini, collecting funds from some billionaire(s) or state or corporation as a bulwark against social unrest or geopolitical 3d chess. Maybe they'll even become president in 2024.

Edited March 13, 2021 by ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP

[BruceVC]

25 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Mussolini won the election in 1924... with a coalition of fascists, catholics, liberals (not to be confused with the American use of the word liberal) and conservatives. The parallels (edit: what feels attracted to what) are hard to overlook.

Valid point and accurate historical precedent matters around many debates we have nowadays 

But the world has changed a lot since the era of the Versailles Treaty and how Europeans voted and felt about their governments post-WW1 

So for example when you look at the voting  demographics and see exactly which groups of  people voted for Trump its not the same reasons as why Mussolini or Hitler came to power

 

 

[BruceVC]

56 minutes ago, MellowYellow said:

I have staunch Republicans in my own family, and I love them despite their flawed and questionable objectives.   Neo-Nazi's are far worse than them, and all Neo-Nazi's are former Democrats.

My point here is that it's extremely stupid for people on the so called "Left" to label Trump as some kind of working class hero, when it was in fact the entire GOP base who supported him, poor, middle, and rich.

Neo-Nazis are mostly former Democrats? Do you have examples of this because that is the first time I have heard that ?

I am not saying you wrong, I would just like some links to corroborate that opinion?

[Gorth]

26 minutes ago, MellowYellow said:

I dunno about that one.  Modern Western liberals seem disturbingly anti-Communist lately, and the basis of fascism IS anti-Communism.

I don't live there, I only read the web news, but every time somebody in the US uses the word 'Liberal' to describe someone or something, it's implied they means 'Commie' (or socialist)

Cambridge defines it a bit differently https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/liberal

And a liberal party... can be just about anything. When I was still living in Europe, the various western European countries liberal parties were centre-right parties favouring unregulated market economy, tax the poor and reward the rich kind of attitude.

edit: the latter being why I don't think the US use of the word quite matches the perception of it elsewhere.

edit2: The current Australian PM and his party are the 'Australian Liberal Party', biggest pile of vile scumbags you'll ever see in a western country.

[Azdeus]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

I don't live there, I only read the web news, but every time somebody in the US uses the word 'Liberal' to describe someone or something, it's implied they means 'Commie' (or socialist)

Cambridge defines it a bit differently https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/liberal

And a liberal party... can be just about anything. When I was still living in Europe, the various western European countries liberal parties were centre-right parties favouring unregulated market economy, tax the poor and reward the rich kind of attitude.

edit: the latter being why I don't think the US use of the word quite matches the perception of it elsewhere.

edit2: The current Australian PM and his party are the 'Australian Liberal Party', biggest pile of vile scumbags you'll ever see in a western country.

Yeah, the literal Liberal party here in Sweden want to work with the Swedish Democrats to bring about free-market economy, privatize everything and basically **** the poor.

[BruceVC]

43 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

Yeah, the literal Liberal party here in Sweden want to work with the Swedish Democrats to bring about free-market economy, privatize everything and basically **** the poor.

Free market economies and privatization definitely doesnt mean the poor will  necessarily suffer, you will still have labor laws and regulations that ensure the rights of unions and general workers rights 

It will lead to  your economy  becoming stronger but I am not sure why Sweden would want to make such sweeping changes because your economy is already strong under  the current hybrid socialist\capitalist models that exist in the Nordic countries 

So for example its not  like you have real inequality so why change the economic fundamentals ?

Edited March 13, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, MellowYellow said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/543030-81-percent-of-republican-voters-hold-favorable-view-of-trump-poll

More destruction of the idiotic theory perpetuated by the likes of @Gromnir that only "white and working class" people support Trump.

The vast majority of Trump supporters are more like "White and Evangelical middle class" and "Classic Republican voter".

Let's add "Supports fascism" to the list as well.

not bothering to read your link, but even w/o doing so we are able to conclude with certainty you is humorous wrong. when other folks has linked the ills of the republican party and the rise o' the q influence as some kinda white trend, is Gromnir who noted how in spite o' trump campaign lawsuits targeting urban areas with higher concentrations o' democrat and minority voters, he outperformed hillary clinton from 2016 almost everywheres save states where there were automatic registration... which is another point which keeps falling on deaf ears. 

the correlation fails o' trying to find a flaw in white americans which explains the current problems o' the republican party would be amusing save for fact some o' these same folk complain, justifiable so we might add, when some dirtbag suggests a minority group is predisposed to crime, cause just look at the statistics.

is not just white and working class who support trump, but white and working class is effective the target o' the messaging coming from trump. again, we didn't bother with your link, but is Gromnir who keeps saying that 30% o' republicans is having a stranglehold on the party as a whole. those fringe elements  were mocked and ridiculed for decades by washington republicans, but the republican party is aware they will lose near every election if that 30% choses to revolt. the trump base is white and working class, but it is indeed disappointing how moderate republicans instead o' trying to purge the party o' the more violent and extreme fringe elements has decided they cannot afford to anger or even disappoint those lunatics. 

on january 6, after the insurrection, lindsey graham said he were done with trump.

on january 9...

no doubt lindsey thought the insurrection would break trumpism. the sc senator's january 6 speech condemning the efforts o' trump and his followers to overturn the election (efforts which lindsey participated in willingly btw) were no doubt mr. graham's attempt to get ahead o' the anticipated tsunami o' loyalists abandoning the trump cause. 

...

sadly, is not just white and working class who support trump. democrats better not ignore the multiple percentage point gains made by trump in 2020 amongst black males and latinos in the south and southwest. crazy and angry is not a racial quality. should be abundant clear how a few % points will make or break a campaign in the 2020s.

HA! Good Fun!

ps is amusing 'cause months before the election vol actual posted an insightful yahoo news article 'bout the biden campaign's mistakes in florida. vol didn't bother to read anything but the article title, so he complete misunderstood, but the article were addressing biden campaign folk complaining about how little were being done in south florida to motivate voters. to be fair, the perceived incompetence were in part due to the limitations imposed by covid-19 and biden's efforts to use social distanced outreach as posed to boots on the ground and the traditional knocking on doors. nevertheless, numerous biden campaign people saw way ahead o' time that florida were gonna be a problem and weren't gonna be 'cause o' white and working class.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Gromnir

[ComradeYellow]

6 hours ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

Speaking of Mussolini, today I learned that he was funded by the British before becoming Il Duce.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mussolini/how-mussolini-once-worked-for-british-intelligence-idUSTRE59D4MW20091014

Perhaps the US already has a Mussolini, collecting funds from some billionaire(s) or state or corporation as a bulwark against social unrest or geopolitical 3d chess. Maybe they'll even become president in 2024.

Yes it's well known that Mussolini was on good terms with Britain all the way up until France fell, then Italy formally joined the Nazi's and declared war on Britain and what was left of France.

The British made them pay dearly for that though!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Compass

[Azdeus]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Free market economies and privatization definitely doesnt mean the poor will  necessarily suffer, you will still have labor laws and regulations that ensure the rights of unions and general workers rights 

It will lead to  your economy  becoming stronger but I am not sure why Sweden would want to make such sweeping changes because your economy is already strong under  the current hybrid socialist\capitalist models that exist in the Nordic countries 

So for example its not  like you have real inequality so why change the economic fundamentals ?

It inevitably does because those labor laws and regulations are the very antithesis of free market and privatization. The Liberals want to dismantle the Employment Protection act for one.

We have massive economic inequality here in Sweden, and it's growing each year, faster and faster due to the right wing politicians and the Social Democrats taking away several different taxes that only benefit the wealthy, the gift tax, the estate tax, the property tax has been set to a maximum of 0.75% of the property value. Capital gains tax and corporate taxes are below the OECD average. The only high taxes you pay in Sweden are income taxes, something which hits the poor way harder than the rich.

So yeah. We need a new Stockholm bloodbath. Just with less Danes.