Politics US Edition (2021!)

[Guard Dog]

Spend more.... More.... MORE.... MORE!!!!  Collapse the dollar, hyper inflation, $1k loaves of bread! Let it all BURN. BURN! 

I’m prepared for it! How are you guys set up? 
 

 

[rjshae]

20 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

What! Only another 2T!?!?!? He better come bigger than that weaksauce. 

We'll probably need at least two more of these before the economy starts ramping up, so it'll be like last year. I can understand why they don't want to fund the whole thing at once, since there's a lot of uncertainty about how it will trend in the near term.

[Gromnir]

Just now, Guard Dog said:

Everything that is stupid only is because someone thinks it is. There’s always someone else who thought it was a good idea.

someone once thought this was a good idea: 

 

and again, democracy is the method by which in the United Sates of America, The Government of, by and for the people, decides which stupid ideas will be made law. prohibiting eating and drinking while operating an automobile is anti liberty and stoopid to gd, but other individuals disagree with that assessment. so, which stoopid ideas become laws? you aren't against democracy? however, you are against the corrupt and untrustworthy The Government as if the government is some kinda monolithic thing divorceable from people choosing through votes those representatives who will advance their causes. 

you just don't get the whole democracy thing. government is bad because through the democratic process it makes choices gd disagrees with? is anti liberty and corrupt 'cause it is possible for the government to do that which is disagreeable to gd? not all government is bad though. protect gd land and his quiet enjoyment o' his chainsaw? so, again, who decides?

your ideology is transparent self-serving. 

new coke was not a democratic choice. the company which made the choice did blind taste tests by the thousands and overwhelming results showed people preferred new coke. unfortunate, the informed and arguable intelligent choice o' replacing original coke with a flavor people preferred ignored the predictable irrationality and unreasonableness o' purchasers. all too often, the right choice might be the stoopid choice 'cause the people are unreasonable, irrational, easily distracted and prone to making decisions based on emotion as 'posed to intellect. gd mistakes a flaw in government with an inability to recognize human nature for what it is... which were the point o' hobbes' state o' nature observation.

democracy is not a system o' government intended to implement the least stoopid laws. plato's philosopher king is perhaps what you are looking to achieve? through process o' deliberation and reflection, democratic laws is passed and agreed 'pon by consensus o' the people or their elected representatives resulting in limits and restraints which the people as a whole will agree to observe 'cause o' the recognition the The People is the government. "no taxes" were the cry o' the revolutionaries o' 1776? nope. "no stupid taxes?" nope. "no taxation without representation." sound familiar?

oh, and we would not be revolted if gd said he were anti democracy. he is. you just can't admit it. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

oh, and we would not be revolted if gd said he were anti democracy. he is. you just can't admit it. 

HA! Good Fun!

Either you’re thickheaded or I am and I’m really not sure which at this point. You can criticize and even rebel against the choices the majority makes without being willing to take away the votes of the majority. Living in a republican democracy beings having to endure a government that sticks to the people good and hard just like the people asked for it to be stuck to them. Generally the voters have only themselves to blame. Just because you can’t change it doesn’t mean you can’t bitch about it. I would not change the system I would try to change the minds of the voters. How that makes me anti-democracy I cannot fathom.

[BruceVC]

Do you guys know there are going be over 20k national guard and security forces deployed for the inauguration of Biden

I really doubt there will be any violence and people involved in acts of sedition like we saw  

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

Either you’re thickheaded or I am and I’m really not sure which at this point. You can criticize and even rebel against the choices the majority makes without being willing to take away the votes of the majority. Living in a republican democracy beings having to endure a government that sticks to the people good and hard just like the people asked for it to be stuck to them. Generally the voters have only themselves to blame. Just because you can’t change it doesn’t mean you can’t bitch about it. I would not change the system I would try to change the minds of the voters. How that makes me anti-democracy I cannot fathom.

Gromnir I have to add GD is definitely not opposed to the idea of Democracy, he criticizes aspects of the Democratic system and its application. 

But that is not the same as being opposed to it. And his  views have been more or less consistent, like all of us, as long as I have debated with him which is over 10 years 

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Do you guys know there are going be over 20k national guard and security forces deployed for the inauguration of Biden

I really doubt there will be any violence and people involved in acts of sedition like we saw  

Probably will be that stuff in state capitals.  But maybe there will be some idiots that will try something in DC.

[Gromnir]

rail 'gaist the bad and stoopid laws, which you observe is a personal measure divorced from any objective standard, as anti-freedom while you tout your support o' democracy is hard to square... and fact you do not realize the problem is amusing to us. just one example.

8 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Either you’re thickheaded or I am and I’m really not sure which at this point. 

is absolute nothing which precludes both of us being thickheaded. 

@BruceVC

*sigh*

as a libertarian, gd is already antagonistic to democracy. his various no compromise positions on what he deems is essential liberty rights, positions which go well beyond even what the most ardent Constitutionalist will advocate, is a rejection o' basic democratic principles. recall, gd stated he would kill peace officers lawful directed to retrieve his rusty chainsaw while acting under color o' law. he don't get it, and he is not alone.

you can be a patriotic american and be anti-democratic. recent events should make that point abundant obvious. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 15, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

Sedition. That wasn’t sedition. That was a mob. Firing on Fort Sumter was sedition.  The battle of Bower Hill was sedition. Calling that despicable display last week sedition is giving it far too much credit. Besides ANTIFI and CHAZ said they seceded from the US this past summer. They didn’t even call that sedition. I believe the governor of Washington said it was a block party.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Probably will be that stuff in state capitals.  But maybe there will be some idiots that will try something in DC.

Yes the risk seems to be in state capitals and people protesting on the day throughout the states 

I will be surprised if we see the same levels of violence because the US security forces have been clamping down hard since the violence at the Capitol and anyone even hinting at violence I am confident will be arrested 

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sedition. That wasn’t sedition. That was a mob. Firing on Fort Sumter was sedition.  The battle of Bower Hill was sedition. Calling that despicable display last week sedition is giving it far too much credit. Besides ANTIFI and CHAZ said they seceded from the US this past summer. They didn’t even call that sedition. I believe the governor of Washington said it was a block party.

I agree , but words like "sedition" , " coup " and " violent insurrection " are commonly used in the media so Im just copying them because we all know they refer to the Capitol violence 

Edited January 15, 2021 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

41 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Minimum wage is garbage right now. When was the last time it went up? I'm pretty sure the economy has changed since then.

Nationally I think in 2009, which I think was part of a three step plan to slowly raise it from 5.15 which it had been set at for about a decade. There's quite a few states with higher minimum wages though.

Last I look most data showed that $15 was below the minimum (lmao) to be considered a living wage in most major US cities, with Houston being a few cents more and cities like New York and San Francisco being a few bucks over $20. This data is a little old though, so with potential rent increases it could be quite a bit off. Near as I can tell rent is (one of) the biggest drivers of the high estimation of a living wage with rent being consistently overpriced and inflated across the US, but specially bad in cali and new york. Some sort of rent control could be as beneficial as a minimum wage increase, but such is going to be politically harder to get legislated than the already titanic struggle to get wage increases.

[Gromnir]

9 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sedition. That wasn’t sedition. That was a mob. Firing on Fort Sumter was sedition.  The battle of Bower Hill was sedition. Calling that despicable display last week sedition is giving it far too much credit. Besides ANTIFI and CHAZ said they seceded from the US this past summer. They didn’t even call that sedition. I believe the governor of Washington said it was a block party.

precise 'cause it were a mob is the reason why is unfair to make broad generalizations. same were the case during the summer. difference is there were literal thousands who were breaking into the Capitol with the intent o' delaying or changing the electoral count. there were no doubt many in that mob bent on sedition. likewise there were many who were just going along with a crowd and thought it were being patriotic to show their support for their President. 

however, as we noted elsewhere, the legal definition o' sedition is a bit more broad than gd's definition. damn democratic process. the battle o' bower hill does not preclude the appropriateness o' charging many involved in the events o' january 6 with crimes o' sedition.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Everything that is stupid only is because someone thinks it is. There’s always someone else who thought it was a good idea.

someone once thought this was a good idea: 

Funny thing about "new coke"...

If I remember the case study correctly, people actually preferred it in blind taste tests. The issue wasn't that it wasn't good; it was that the customers didn't like that they were being subjected to change.

I think John Locke wrote something about that too.

EDIT: Should have caught up before responding. Would've seen that @Gromnir already made the same point

Edited January 15, 2021 by Achilles

[Guard Dog]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

precise 'cause it were a mob is the reason why is unfair to make broad generalizations. same were the case during the summer. difference is there were literal thousands who were breaking into the Capitol with the intent o' delaying or changing the electoral count. there were no doubt many in that mob bent on sedition. likewise there were many who were just going along with a crowd and thought it were being patriotic to show their support for their President. 

however, as we noted elsewhere, the legal definition o' sedition is a bit more broad than gd's definition. damn democratic process. the battle o' bower hill does not preclude the appropriateness o' charging many involved in the events o' january 6 with crimes o' sedition.

HA! Good Fun!

 

One thing the battle of Bower Hill and last week have in common is it in both of them the mob was demanding that a federal official be hanged. Mike Pence last week and a US marshal in 1791 (not 100% sure of that date. Going off memory here)

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Funny thing about "new coke"...

If I remember the case study correctly, people actually preferred it in blind taste tests. The issue wasn't that it wasn't good; it was that the customers didn't like that they were being subjected to change.

I think John Locke wrote something about that too.

I can’t speak for everybody but I remember that trash and it wasn’t good. It tasted like Pepsi’s ugly kid sister.

[Guest]

Just now, Guard Dog said:

I can’t speak for everybody but I remember that trash and it wasn’t good. It tasted like Pepsi’s ugly kid sister.

Perception is a powerful thing

[Guard Dog]

4 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Perception is a powerful thing

Taste trumps all. Besides, I think I was like 14 years old. I had definite opinions on what sodas tasted good and which ones didn’t Without harboring any loyalty to any brand names

Edited January 15, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

4 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Perception is a powerful thing

have not bothered to check, but memory tells us it were something in the neighborhood o' 200k blind taste tests which coca cola used to inform their choice to change formulas. an overwhelming % o' people preferred new coke, but the rejection and even anger from the change were no less real. many people hated the idea of changing coke, so they genuine hated new coke even if they preferred new coke in blind taste tests.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Taste trumps all. Besides, I think I was like 14 years old. I had definite opinions on what sodas tasted good and which ones didn’t Without harboring any loyalty to any brand names.Without harboring any loyalty to any brand names.

I'll repeat my earlier comment

There's a reason that new coke did well in blind taste test and people recall it tasting like garbage and it's not because they changed the formula before pushing it to market.

EDIT: Said it before and I'll say it again; people think that they know their own minds, but are actually awful at it. Correctives are needed just to get us to see our own blind spots. Even more to get us on a level playing field. I've already referenced Trout, but this is also covered at length by Kahneman, Trivers, and countless others.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Achilles

[Amentep]

13 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I can’t speak for everybody but I remember that trash and it wasn’t good. It tasted like Pepsi’s ugly kid sister.

Iirc, that was the point. Coke's sales were slipping, and it was attributed to Pepsi's taste being preferred. So they mad a new drink that was more like Pepsi.

Personally, I didn't like it, but I'm not really crazy about Pepsi either.

[Gromnir]

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

29 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Funny thing about "new coke"...

If I remember the case study correctly, people actually preferred it in blind taste tests. The issue wasn't that it wasn't good; it was that the customers didn't like that they were being subjected to change.

I think John Locke wrote something about that too.

EDIT: Should have caught up before responding. Would've seen that @Gromnir already made the same point

Im sorry but despite what they say the "new " coke flavor doesnt taste like the old coke 

I know they had to reduce the sugar, due to the health concerns, so the new taste isnt as nice and  quite as refreshing, I am drinking Coke now and its enjoyable but not like the coke of the old days. No Coke global marketing will convince me the taste is the same...its not 

[Gromnir]

Just now, BruceVC said:

Im sorry but despite what they say the "new " coke flavor doesnt taste like the old coke 

I know they had to reduce the sugar, due to the health concerns, so the new taste isnt as nice and  quite as refreshing, I am drinking Coke now and its enjoyable but not like the coke of the old days. No Coke global marketing will convince me the taste is the same...its not 

wrong new coke. 

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/new-coke-vs-coca-cola-taste-test

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sedition. That wasn’t sedition. That was a mob. Firing on Fort Sumter was sedition.  The battle of Bower Hill was sedition. Calling that despicable display last week sedition is giving it far too much credit. Besides ANTIFI and CHAZ said they seceded from the US this past summer. They didn’t even call that sedition. I believe the governor of Washington said it was a block party.

There were individuals in the mob who definitely had sedition on their minds, and hopefully those are being rounded up. For most though though, it was probably more of a "apes together strong" riot by the far right. Unfortunately, the sedistionists were likely also the leaders and initiators.