Politics... US election edition (2020 almost over, read all about it!)

[the_dog_days]

53 minutes ago, rjshae said:

I keep seeing that prediction being kicked around like it means something. We're already in two wars, inherited from Bush/Cheney. Do you mean a new one? Because eight years of Obama/Biden didn't see us enter a new war, unless you count Syria (which is already related to the Iraq war thanks to ISIS).

A new one. And not China. When was the last time we picked a fight with a nation with any real military might? It'll be some smaller nation with little economic or strategic importance, probably populated by brown people that the old warhawks will go after. Also, the Obama era inherited a war and then escalated tension across the middle east. So while no 'new' war, they managed to make the existing one worse--notice that the European immigration crisis has calmed down the last few years.

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

A new one. And not China. When was the last time we picked a fight with a nation with any real military might? It'll be some smaller nation with little economic or strategic importance, probably populated by brown people that the old warhawks will go after. Also, the Obama era inherited a war and then escalated tension across the middle east. So while no 'new' war, they managed to make the existing one worse--notice that the European immigration crisis has calmed down the last few years.

How did Obama escalate tension in the ME? He pulled the USA military out of Iraq in 2011 and refused to send troops back until the USA helped prevent  ISIS committing more massacre's like the wiping out of the Yezidis  in Syria 2014/2015  The USA had to intervene because no else was prepared to help the ME countries fight ISIS 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/17/barack-obama-sends-troops-back-to-iraq-as-crisis-worsens

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yezidis-sinjar-massacre-rape-iraq-isis-fighters-children-a9037126.html

Edited January 6, 2021 by BruceVC

[the_dog_days]

36 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

How did Obama escalate tension in the ME? He pulled the USA military out of Iraq in 2011 and refused to send troops back until the USA helped prevent the ISIS committing more massacre's like the wiping out of the Yezidis  in Syria 2014/2015

US gave Al-Qaeda a start by funding them in the late 80's through the 90's. The Obama admiration did the same thing ISIS. They didn't even exist and until the US gave them weapons.

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes China is a threat on certain levels and there contempt for human rights and general Democratic rule needs to be addressed

I wasn't really concerned about their human rights records... other countries have spotted history there too. I was just thinking along the lines of first they invaded Tibet, then they made claims on Hong Kong (having already seized Macau), the entire sea area all the way down to Malaysia (territorial claims that are beyond ridiculous). Now they are throwing they weight around way south, staking out claims on Antarctica, islands around Papua-New Guinea, encroaching on Australian territorial waters by building a naval base smack in the middle. Eventually... that attitude you know, peace in hour time etc. it wont work.

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

US gave Al-Qaeda a start by funding them in the late 80's through the 90's. The Obama admiration did the same thing ISIS. They didn't even exist and until the US gave them weapons.

Thats not true in  the direct way you framing it. The USA provided funding and surreptitious support, through CIA operatives, during the USSR Afghan war,1979-1989,  to the Afghan Mujahideen,  Afghan tribal fighters ,   who were actively fighting the  Soviets as the Soviets  were trying  to occupy Afghanistan. They only did this as this was the Cold War and the USA and Soviets fought numerous proxy wars during this time

In other words the USA and the West would generally always supports countries and governments opposed to Communism and vice versa for China and the Soviet Union. Bin Laden was one of the foreign fighters who came to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets so yes the USA did train and fund people like him but that was before AQ even existed and no one could have predicted what Bin Laden and AQ would do after the Afghan war ended in 1989, only later was Al-Qaeda created

And the USA didnt fund ISIS, they funded or tried to fund the Free Syrian  Army and groups like  the Kurds who were fighting ISIS 

ISIS always had its own revenue and access to weapons and later on when they created there false Caliphate they had oil revenue streams which provided real funding until the Caliphate was destroyed by a united Arab army finally in 2019 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/23/middleeast/end-of-isis-caliphate-intl/index.html

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I wasn't really concerned about their human rights records... other countries have spotted history there too. I was just thinking along the lines of first they invaded Tibet, then they made claims on Hong Kong (having already seized Macau), the entire sea area all the way down to Malaysia (territorial claims that are beyond ridiculous). Now they are throwing they weight around way south, staking out claims on Antarctica, islands around Papua-New Guinea, encroaching on Australian territorial waters by building a naval base smack in the middle. Eventually... that attitude you know, peace in hour time etc. it wont work.

You 100 % correct, it wont work. Has this become a talking point in Oz, are people annoyed by the Chinese encroaching on your waters? What does the current government think ?

[rjshae]

41 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

Also, the Obama era inherited a war and then escalated tension across the middle east. So while no 'new' war, they managed to make the existing one worse--notice that the European immigration crisis has calmed down the last few years.

Nonsense. I assume you are referring to the "Arab Spring"? That began in 2010. Most of the immigration crisis been driven by the Arab Spring and wars that were started by Bush/Cheney. Remember, Obama was blamed by the right for a significant force draw-down in Iraq prior to his leaving office.

Edited January 6, 2021 by rjshae

[Malcador]

https://www.twitch.tv/statuscoup

Protest at the Capitol. Would be funny to see what these same folks thought about the Floyd protests.  

Edited January 6, 2021 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

merrick garland to be biden's pick for ag.

HA! Good Fun!

So far Biden has picked a decent cabinet. 

[BruceVC]

Holy Smoke, I am watching the electoral collogue ceremony and they have adjourned to discuss the FIRST objection....how long is this going to take if they can apparently  debate for 2 hours per objection?

This could go on for a whole day at this rate ?

[BruceVC]

I am very impressed with McConnell's speech, he is doing the right thing and  I respect him immensely for this and pointing out the hypocrisy with what Trump wants to do 

[Malcador]

DC cops seem pretty feeble before the MAGA legions. No mounted troops, gas. Odd.

[Guard Dog]

19 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Holy Smoke, I am watching the electoral collogue ceremony and they have adjourned to discuss the FIRST objection....how long is this going to take if they can apparently  debate for 2 hours per objection?

This could go on for a whole day at this rate ?

Sometimes it’s hard to believe they’re not paid by the hour LOL

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

DC cops seem pretty feeble before the MAGA legions. No mounted troops, gas. Odd.

Half of them are part of the MAGA legions so they're shortstaffed.

[Malcador]

13 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Half of them are part of the MAGA legions so they're shortstaffed.

Well, ok, I guess they played them well there just now - they managed to storm a tented scaffold....and they all got gassed in a confined space. Still, surprised no National Guard out.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Malcador

[HoonDing]

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

 

11 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well, ok, I guess they played them well there just now - they managed to storm a tented scaffold....and they all got gassed in a confined space. Still, surprised no National Guard out.

Malc does this mean you finally support me when I called for swift police action  to arrest anyone breaking the law during BLM protests or the protracted anarchy we saw for months in places like Portland ?

[BruceVC]

25 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sometimes it’s hard to believe they’re not paid by the hour LOL

GD werent you impressed by McConnell's speech, he reminded of the dignity and decorum we use to see before Trump? 

[Malcador]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 

Malc does this mean you finally support me when I called for swift police action  to arrest anyone breaking the law during BLM protests or the protracted anarchy we saw for months in places like Portland ?

I don't recall saying no one was arrested, merely that it wasn't "protracted anarchy".    So they're outside the Senate waving the Confederate flag.   Sherman burned too little.  The contrast in response is nice, cops trying to deescalate with the dudes inside the Capitol.  Even seeing these protestors punching and trying to spray the cops with pepper spray and yet, the response is quite tame and calm.  

Edited January 6, 2021 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I don't recall saying no one was arrested, merely that it wasn't "protracted anarchy".    So they're outside the Senate waving the Confederate flag.   Sherman burned too little.

Fair enough. But just for the record what would you call the 3 months of protests in Portland where shops were closed and some were vandalized, cops were injured and attacked, protestors were injured and some arrested for breaking the law and Federal buildings were also vandalized. What would you call that ?

[HoonDing]

[BruceVC]

Its a disgrace how long it took Trump to comment on this violence and criminal behavior ...and it wasnt even a real admonishment of the anarchy 

And as Hoonding mentioned now Pence needs a real security unit  to be escorted from the building 

[Guard Dog]

Congratulations MAGA. You guys are as big a mob of violent animals as ANTIFI. Way to go.

[IndiraLightfoot]

For once, I am shocked. Storming Capitol Hill. What is this? Some near-future dystopic computer game? What happened with that superb security that the US usually excels in?

[HoonDing]

the King has been crowned