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Could someone give me a list of things you can stack reasonably easily for Accuracy? Just like I asked in this thread about Deflection:

I almost feel compelled to use Fighter as a multi-class for every build - even casters  builds - due to the avoidances being so much higher in PotD.

Edited by Lampros
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Lampros, you don't need to multiclass as a fighter to boost accuracy. Ranger is probably the class that brings the most to accuracy table, with marked prey (+10), stalkers link (+10) and Survival of the fittest (+10 on targets below 50% health) and Marksman for ranged (+5) and Hunter's claw/fang for melee (+1 accuracy/+1% damage per hit, stackable to 20, against a specific species). Taken together this is a huge bonus. Stalker, I think, is an under-appreciated subclass that is great for melee multi-class builds, especially on PotD, and can give you an alternative to the fighter.  Then there's cipher, which shines accuracy wise once you hit PL 5, where you can get borrowed instinct (+20 accuracy and all defences) and tactical meld (aware and +3 engagements for 30 seconds). I believe that the seer can achieve the highest possible accuracy in the game. But you can add ranger and cipher to your multiclass mix to get a bit more variety into your party. While fighters are great, rangers and ciphers also bring useful abilities to the table.

Then there's monk. Monks don't bring much to the accuracy table, except for Dance with Death and Enduring Dance, which gives you increasing accuracy and wounds over time, but can be dispelled by hits, which makes it better for ranged builds and caster multi-classes. But monks, in melee, have one of the best weapons in the game, that scale in accuracy, damage and PEN to post-mythic levels if you stack power levels, making them very strong in this area too.

Edited by dgray62
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38 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Lampros, you don't need to multiclass as a fighter to boost accuracy. Ranger is probably the class that brings the most to accuracy table, with marked prey (+10), stalkers link (+10) and Survival of the fittest (+10 on targets below 50% health) and Marksman for ranged (+5) and Hunter's claw/fang for melee (+1 accuracy/+1% damage per hit, stackable to 20, against a specific species). Taken together this is a huge bonus. Stalker, I think, is an under-appreciated subclass that is great for melee multi-class builds, especially on PotD, and can give you an alternative to the fighter.  Then there's cipher, which shines accuracy wise once you hit PL 5, where you can get borrowed instinct (+20 accuracy and all defences) and tactical meld (aware and +3 engagements for 30 seconds). I believe that the seer can achieve the highest possible accuracy in the game. But you can add ranger and cipher to your multiclass mix to get a bit more variety into your party. While fighters are great, rangers and ciphers also bring useful abilities to the table.

Then there's monk. Monks don't bring much to the accuracy table, except for Dance with Death and Enduring Dance, which gives you increasing accuracy and wounds over time, but can be dispelled by hits, which makes it better for ranged builds and caster multi-classes. But monks, in melee, have one of the best weapons in the game, that scale in accuracy, damage and PEN to post-mythic levels if you stack power levels, making them very strong in this area too.

Thanks much! In particular, I did not realize that the Ranger has so many Accuracy-boosting tools, even though I play them all the time (as Ranger/Devoted).

On the Ranger: Can you benefit from Survival of the Fittest, even if you don't use a pet? I never took this, because I thought it required a pet. (Maybe I thought it was essentially the same type of bonus as Stalker's Link!) But I am no longer sure upon re-reading the description after you posted. If this ability does not need a pet, then I will indeed select it.

Also, would Ranger/Cipher combination be effective for spamming Ancestor's Memory? If yes, then what sub-class? I wanted to incorporate a ranged Cipher to try out Ancestor's Memory anyways! ;)

Edit: By the way, what did you mean when you said Monks have "one of the best weapons in the game" for melee?

Edited by Lampros
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Lampros, to my knowledge only stalker's link is conditional on the ranger and pet targeting the same enemy. Marked Prey and Survival of the Fittest grant the bonus to both ranger and pet, but as far as I know the pet isn't required. So you could still get these bonuses if you chose the ghost heart subclass and don't summon your pet. I'm not 100% certain, however, as I started playing rangers only recently, when I switched from veteran to PotD, as a way to boost accuracy. As I prefer melee builds with the stalker subclass, I usually pick the bear pet (for its higher AR) as it is tankier and seems to very rarely go down, even on PotD. So I'm used to playing with the pet.

If you want to spam ancestor's memory or any other power, you might consider an ascendant/helwalker with maxed DEX and INT and dumped RES. With very high INT (from turning wheel) and high DEX (from lightning flurry and gear, since you're playing ranged), you can spam many powers while in the ascended state.

By "best weapons in the game" I meant monks' fists, which start out very strong and just get better and better as you level up. They lack the nice effects of the cooler unique melee weapons, but end up with high damage, PEN and accuracy, while being extremely fast weapons.

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Speed is mostly irrelevant for Turn Based, though.

 

But I strongly agree with the earlier points: Fighter certainly isn't needed: neither for Accuracy, nor for Devoted Penetration. Rogues tend to bring a way higher damage boost to the table (their base skill, Crippling Strike, comes with a Pen boost too, many abilities come with a +10 Accuracy boost, Confounding Blind can be crippling enemy Deflection-wise).

 

On the other hand, Fighters and Paladins are masters of survivability, of course.

Edited by Haplok
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Afaik ranged Ranger/Cipher has the highest ACC potential. Especially Arcane Archer with high Arcana and Imbue Shots.

The highest ACC iirc is a Cipher/Arcane Archer with max Arcana, an imbue shot and Spearcaster as weapon. Paladin/Arcane Archer might be on par with Flames of Devotion (no penalty with Arcane Archer) + Ring of Focused Flames with Spearcaster.

But Ciphers can also lower deflection easily with Secret Horrors, Phantom Foes and Eyestrike, giving them more "effective" ACC.

Edited by Boeroer
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To stack Accuracy you'll of course want the highest Perception attribute you can get.

I do not know what items boost Perception off the top of my head, but as for the rest:

18 base
+2 Orlan
+1 The White That Wends
+1 Savage Cunning
+1 Blood Pool sacrifice (Sagani)
+1 Cauldron Brew (comes fairly late though)
-------
24

You can get it to 29 with a Perception Inspiration, 31 if you're using Berath's Blessings, and further up with items (not sure if you can get the +4 you need to hit the cap of 35 from items; the more experienced players may chime in on this.)

EDIT: If you choose Aenalys at the brothel, you get another passive bonus of +2 PER. That gets to you to 33 if using Berath's Blessings while under the effects of a Perception Inspiration, so it should be easy to hit 35 with items at this point.

 

Then you'll want your Priest to cast Devotions for the Faithful for another +10 Accuracy that stacks with pretty much everything, and you can get another +10 Accuracy from Nature's Resolve (though this will go away if you rest, so you'd need to opt into a No Rest playthrough once you get it.)

 

A SC Monk has access to Razor's Edge, which grants +1 Accuracy per Wound up to a maximum of +10. Dance of Death / Enduring Dance have no cap that I know of, if you can avoid getting hit (you may give up on Razor's Edge and multi with Wizard to bolster your defenses with spells and guarantee a long-lasting Enduring Dance.) That said, as others have pointed out, Ciphers and Rangers can stack higher Accuracy than Monk.

 

I believe there's a weapon or two that either stack Accuracy bonuses on the wielder or Deflection penalties on the target. BoTEP, off the top of my head, can stack Accuracy.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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Rapier has +5 ACC as standard (passive) and +20 ACC modal (active so doesn't stack with many active buffs; still 20 is a lot and trumps most other bonuses). Ranning's Wrath adds +4 ACC (passive) on top of that.

Arquebus also has +20 ACC modal (particularly good in Turn Based). Although passive -5 ACC.

Scordeo's Edge saber is notorious not only because of Blade Cascade (which is kinda poor in Turn Based), but also for its stacking ACC bonus each hit, up to +20.

Blade of the Endless Paths estoc, as AndreaColombo mentioned, stacks +1 ACC every 6s, up to +10. I can also be enchanted to debuff enemy Deflection by 4 per crit, up to -20.

Eager Blade estoc stacks +2 ACC per crit, up to +8.

Azure Blade stilletto can provide +10-15 ACC if bunched close together with allies.

Magistrate's Cudgel mace marks enemies and provides +10 ACC vs them.

Spearcaster Arbalest has +5 ACC bonus, scales with Arcana.

Fleetbreaker x-bow has +8 ACC bonus.

Tarn's Respite saber debuffs enemy Deflection with each hit, up to -10.

Pikes have -10 Deflection modal.

Spears, Clubs and Hunting Bows also have +5 (passive) ACC.

Rod of the Deep Hunter debuffs enemy Deflection by -1 per hit.

Grave Calling saber has a racial +15 ACC bonus vs Vessels. Amaliorra scepter has +10 ACC vs Vessels.

Dire Talon saber has the specific +10 ACC vs beasts bonus.

Hel Beckoning Sword has the specific +15 ACC bonus vs spirits  (+Veil piercing). Whispers of Yenwood also has +15 ACC vs Spirits.

Edited by Haplok
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The real question is—what's the best possible stacking of Accuracy and Penetration?

You can't fully max out both, as maxing Accuracy requires a Cipher/Ranger build with weapons that don't necessarily have the best Penetration; similarly, stacking Penetration requires the Devoted subclass and, possibly, wielding estocs.

So what's the best combined result that can be achieved?

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

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Orlan Devoted/Stalker from The White That Wends with Blade of the Endless Paths, likely. Get that PER at 35, stack Accuracy boni like there was no tomorrow, max out on Pen and you probably have good damage as well.

 

EDIT: let's turn this into a build thread while we're at it.

Here's a start:

Class:

Devoted/Stalker with proficiency in estocs.

Attributes:

	Base	Berath	Item	Insp	Other	Talent	Total
MIG	15	  2		  5		  1	  23
CON	8	  2	  2	  5			  17
DEX	18	  2	  3	  5			  28
PER	21	  2		  5	  2	  3	  33
INT	8	  2		  5			  15
RES	8	  2		  5			  15

This is for an Orlan from The White That Wends. Talents are Gift from the Machine, Cauldron Brew, Savage Cunning, and Blood Pool (Sagani.) The bonus under "Other" is from Aenalys; items are Aegor's Swift Touch, Footprints of Ahu Taka, and The Undying Burden.

Equipment:

Helm of the Falcon
Devil of Caroc Breastplate
Aegor's Swift Touch
The Undying Burden
Footprints of Ahu Taka
Ring of Prosperity's Fortune
Blade of the Endless Paths
The Willbreaker (for enemies immune to Piercing damage)
Cutthroat Cosmo (for the armor speed penalty reduction)
Ring 2? (Kuaru's prize for the +1 PER but it's better for a Wizard)
Amulet?

Cloak? (Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak for +1 PER but it's better for a Rogue or SC Monk; also comes pretty late unless you hire an exported character)

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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2 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

Then you'll want your Priest to cast Devotions for the Faithful for another +10 Accuracy that stacks with pretty much everything, and you can get another +10 Accuracy from Nature's Resolve (though this will go away if you rest, so you'd need to opt into a No Rest playthrough once you get it.)

I didn't realize Devotions stack with other active effects; that means I will likely commit playing Priest - though I haven't played one in PoE 2, and thus I have no idea how to play one!

On a "no rest playthrough": Since spells are now per encounter, all I am losing is the ability to use Empowered abilities, no?

2 hours ago, Haplok said:

Rapier has +5 ACC as standard (passive) and +20 ACC modal (active so doesn't stack with many active buffs; still 20 is a lot and trumps most other bonuses). Ranning's Wrath adds +4 ACC (passive) on top of that.

Arquebus also has +20 ACC modal (particularly good in Turn Based). Although passive -5 ACC.

Scordeo's Edge saber is notorious not only because of Blade Cascade (which is kinda poor in Turn Based), but also for its stacking ACC bonus each hit, up to +20.

Blade of the Endless Paths estoc, as AndreaColombo mentioned, stacks +1 ACC every 6s, up to +10. I can also be enchanted to debuff enemy Deflection by 4 per crit, up to -20.

Eager Blade estoc stacks +2 ACC per crit, up to +8.

Azure Blade stilletto can provide +10-15 ACC if bunched close together with allies.

Magistrate's Cudgel mace marks enemies and provides +10 ACC vs them.

Spearcaster Arbalest has +5 ACC bonus, scales with Arcana.

Fleetbreaker x-bow has +8 ACC bonus.

Tarn's Respite saber debuffs enemy Deflection with each hit, up to -10.

Pikes have -10 Deflection modal.

Spears, Clubs and Hunting Bows also have +5 (passive) ACC.

Rod of the Deep Hunter debuffs enemy Deflection by -1 per hit.

Grave Calling saber has a racial +15 ACC bonus vs Vessels. Amaliorra scepter has +10 ACC vs Vessels.

Dire Talon saber has the specific +10 ACC vs beasts bonus.

Hel Beckoning Sword has the specific +15 ACC bonus vs spirits  (+Veil piercing). Whispers of Yenwood also has +15 ACC vs Spirits.

Thanks for the comprehensive list on weapons. But weapons that stack ACC per hit lose their stack once the encounter is over, no? If so, they may be less effective in turn-based, since even fast attackers get only 1 attack per turn.

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5 minutes ago, Lampros said:

I didn't realize Devotions stack with other active effects; that means I will likely commit playing Priest - though I haven't played one in PoE 2, and thus I have no idea how to play one!

You don't need your MC to be a Priest; suffice to bring one along for the ride.

The catch with Devotions is that is grants separate Accuracy bonuses for melee and ranged, which count as different from overall Accuracy bonuses that apply to both simultaneously (which are the majority.) So you can stack it on top of most other Accuracy-bolstering active effects.

As for the "no rest" playthrough—watch out for the game has a number of "forced rests." There's a mod on the Nexus that removes them. Other than Empower, you're not losing anything that I know of but you'll need a good supply of Adra potions to clear any wounds you get from being knocked out in battle.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

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10 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

 

The catch with Devotions is that is grants separate Accuracy bonuses for melee and ranged, which count as different from overall Accuracy bonuses that apply to both simultaneously (which are the majority.) So you can stack it on top of most other Accuracy-bolstering active effects.

 

Sounds absolutely golden! Damn, is this game complex. I've played a bit over 200 hours (2 and a half playthroughs?), and I am not even scratching the surface!

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14 minutes ago, Lampros said:

I didn't realize Devotions stack with other active effects; that means I will likely commit playing Priest - though I haven't played one in PoE 2, and thus I have no idea how to play one!

 

Thanks for the comprehensive list on weapons. But weapons that stack ACC per hit lose their stack once the encounter is over, no? If so, they may be less effective in turn-based, since even fast attackers get only 1 attack per turn.

I'm not sure about Devotions stacking with many other active bonuses. Maybe with some, but certainly not with all.

 

And you're right about the bonus stacking per hit in Turn Based. Again, passively riposting with the like of Scordeo's Edge could help here.

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1 minute ago, Lampros said:

Hmm, what common Accuracy buffs does it not stack with?

Any other active bonus of the same type (i.e. an active bonus that specifies to melee and/or to ranged Accuracy.)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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I'd need to double check on the spell. If they changed it from melee/ranged to general, then it won't stack with those indeed—but it would be rather significant departure from the first game and, to the best of my memory, the way the spell used to work in Deadfire as well.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

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Had a quick check: in Deadfire, Devotions does indeed grant a +10 generic Accuracy bonus, which means it doesn't stack with other active bonuses.

I stand corrected.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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1 hour ago, AndreaColombo said:

Had a quick check: in Deadfire, Devotions does indeed grant a +10 generic Accuracy bonus, which means it doesn't stack with other active bonuses.

I stand corrected.

I'd probably need Priest tricks (along with the Cipher's Ancestor's Memory) for some mega-bosses anyways though, right? In that case, I may just as well roll a Priest multi-class anyways.

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I usually prefer the Priest not to be my MC or even my primary damage dealer as there are a bajillion great buffs I'd want the Priest to cast. By the time the spells are cast, most enemies are already dead 😄

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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12 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

I usually prefer the Priest not to be my MC or even my primary damage dealer as there are a bajillion great buffs I'd want the Priest to cast. By the time the spells are cast, most enemies are already dead 😄

Don't worry; my main is always a DPS melee - regardless of what game it is. I am an unsophisticated guy in real life, so I play the same guy in games! ;)

I am playing turn-based, so my Priest should get turns; in fact, he/she will likely go first to buff everyone. The big question for me is the front-line. Whether to have both spots as DPS characters (Devoted/Monk and Devoted/Rogue) to test comparative DPS - or to go with the conventional set-up of 1 DPS and 1 tank. If the latter, then it be Devoted/Monk, since I haven't played that build before as melee.

Edited by Lampros
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Enduring Dance caps at +12.

Rangers have the highest passive and stacking active ACC bonuses (active effects that stacks with everything are Marked Prey and Hunter's Fang) and Ciphers have the highest active bonus with Borrowed Instincts and access to a PER inspiration. Hence Cipher/Ranger should be the class with the highest possible ACC bonus that's not limited to a certain attack ability. 

Ciphers can have +1 PEN for weapons (without any drawbacks) as well as powers, Sharpshooter can have +1 PEN for near enemies. At the same time Ciphers have a potent AR debuff. 

Edited by Boeroer
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