Sources of Generic +Accuracy

[Ivanfyodorovich]

I’m working on some party comps that don’t involve priests and looking to evaluate all active sources of plain +Accuracy (not Perception). What am I missing? 
 

Group Buffs

Priest

- Devotions for the Faithful : +10 AoE

Paladin

- Zealous (Exalted) Focus : +5 Aura

 

Self Buffs

Barbarian

- Lion's Spring: +15 (on next attack)

Cipher

- Borrowed Instinct : +20

Fighter

- Warrior (Conqueror) Stance : +5 (10 when above 50% health)

Monk

- Dance of Death : +3 to +12

Ranger

- Hunter's Claw (+upgrades) : +1 to +20 vs. one creature type (can go higher due to bug)

Wizard

- Citzal's Martial Power : +20

Alchemy

- Deadeye : +5

- Potion of Deftness : +5

Edited September 30, 2020 by Ivanfyodorovich
added Ranger

[dgray62]

Do you mean abilities or powers that effect the whole party? There aren't too many as I'm sure you've realized. You might also take into consideration abilities that debuff defenses; flanked from the cipher's phantom foes, for example, is the equivalent to +10 accuracy for attacks that target deflection. It's a low level power with a huge radius; I usually like to have a cipher in my party cast this at the start of battle. If that cipher is a beguiler, they usually have more focus after doing this, and can immediately follow up with other debuffs or damage dealing powers.

[Elric Galad]

Borrowed Instinct : +20

Conqueror's Stance : +10 above 50% health.

Citzal Martial Power : +20

Monk Dance of the Death : up to +12

[Boeroer]

I think he meant buffs that cover the whole party or are at least accessible for all party members (e.g. via consumables).
I think as far as consumables go there's only Deadeye and Potion of Deftness.

Then there's pets. They are especially interesting if you unlocked Edér's pet slot with Berath's Blessings:

• Atlas, Harley: +3 ranged ACC to party
• Blinky, Nikki: +3 melee ACC to party
• Boras: +3 spell ACC to party
• Flame Nāga Hatchling: +3 fire ACC to party
• Frosty: +4 freeze ACC to party
• Obsidian Wurm: +3 flanked ACC to party
• Retina: +5 ACC against distant enemies (>4m) to party
• Sky Dragon Wurm (only if you didn't kill the Sky Draon in PoE) :+3 universal ACC to party

There are also items/consumables/pets with conversions (miss to graze, graze to hit, hit to crit) which kind of work like an ACC buff but always stack with everything.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

I think he meant buff that "covers what Devotion for the Faiful should do in the perspective of not picking a priest"

DftF brings +10 non stackable Acc for everybody so I think he is specifically looking for non stackable pure Acc buff. Cause, you know, Accuracy is good.

If you plan to use DftF all the time, Conqueror Stance and or Dance of the Death become partially redundant, and the contrary is true.

With a party with several Fighters and ranged Monks, DftF matter much less.


I would say that Priest feels much much less mandatory than in PoE1.
The only reason why Priest would feel mandatory is for cheesing Dorudugan, Belranga & Friends with Barring Death Door + Salvation of Time and a Source of Brilliant.
That said, DftF is still the best way to fullfill Acc boosting.

[thelee]

If we're not just limiting ourselves to friendly/party buffs, this is my mandatory plug that rangers get enormous amounts of +accuracy bonus (to just themselves). Much of it stacks.

 

edit - 

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Conqueror's Stance : +10 above 50% health.

just as in case it needs clarifaction for OP, the un-upgraded adventurer's stance still gives you +5, and conqueror's stance will still give you +5 below 50% health.

Edited September 29, 2020 by thelee

[Ivanfyodorovich]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I think he meant buffs that cover the whole party or are at least accessible for all party members (e.g. via consumables).

This is mostly true, but I'd also like to list/know self-buffs in this specific category. A better wording of my question is, "What options are there for each (sub)class to get generic +Accuracy," which sprang out of an even more specific question, "how do I increase Fassina's accuracy with scrolls?"  That's slightly different from the question, "How do I increase my chances to hit with my characters if I don't have a priest," which there are many, many answers to, including lowering defenses, etc. 

I'm editing the OP to list what you've all shared. 

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Sky Dragon Wurm (only if you didn't kill the Sky Draon in PoE) :+3 universal ACC to party

Thanks for the reminder about pets! Small note, this one only applies for distant enemies. All of these pet bonuses will stack with generic +ACC (and will apply to scrolls, etc. in a similar way), there are a host of items that provide similar effects, e.g. Ring of Focused Flames, etc. It's probably enough to mention them in general above, without listing every effect. 

Edit: I forgot that the pets are all passive buffs, so they stack inherently. Great to remember them, though, for the original "scrolls" problem. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ivanfyodorovich
remembered passive vs. active buffs

[Ivanfyodorovich]

6 hours ago, thelee said:

If we're not just limiting ourselves to friendly/party buffs, this is my mandatory plug that rangers get enormous amounts of +accuracy bonus (to just themselves). Much of it stacks.

Are all of the Ranger +ACC effects conditional (also passive, yes?), and thus stack w/ active generic +ACC? 

Marked Prey, Marksman, Stalker's Link, Survival of the Fittest (am I missing any?)

[Elric Galad]

8 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Are all of the Ranger +ACC effects conditional (also passive, yes?), and thus stack w/ active generic +ACC? 

Marked Prey, Marksman, Stalker's Link, Survival of the Fittest (am I missing any?)

Yes, all of them stacks with active generic +ACC and stacks with each other.

Not because they're conditional, but because they come from Passive Abilities except Marked Prey which stacks because it's indeed a specific effect.

[Tee See]

On top of Enduring Dance, Monks also get Razor's Edge (+1 acc per wound) = +10 at max wounds.

 

 

[Ivanfyodorovich]

2 hours ago, Tee See said:

On top of Enduring Dance, Monks also get Razor's Edge (+1 acc per wound) = +10 at max wounds.

 

 

Does that stack with Enduring Dance and/or things like Exalted Focus? 

[Waski]

23 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Does that stack with Enduring Dance and/or things like Exalted Focus? 

Yes

[thelee]

16 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Are all of the Ranger +ACC effects conditional (also passive, yes?), and thus stack w/ active generic +ACC? 

Marked Prey, Marksman, Stalker's Link, Survival of the Fittest (am I missing any?)

you also forgot the hunter's claw line of abilities. with a bit of metagaming, you can get +20 generic accuracy (but is active so doesn't stack with other active bonuses). Combined with Marked Prey, Marksman, Stalker's Link, and Survival of the Fittest you can have an insane amount of accuracy (albeit only against one creature type, against everyone else you get less, but still insane, accuracy).

 

edit - the game is a little glitched about hunter's claw and it is actually possible to stack hunter's claw arbitrarily large without much effort. it's so easy to do this that whenever i use a ranger, i have to consciously make sure i stop at +19 or +20 to avoid getting cheaty.

Edited September 30, 2020 by thelee

[Ivanfyodorovich]

4 hours ago, Waski said:

Yes

Got it. It’s probably considered a passive source, then. Good to know for the accuracy with scrolls question. 

42 minutes ago, thelee said:

you also forgot the hunter's claw line of abilities. with a bit of metagaming, you can get +20 generic accuracy (but is active so doesn't stack with other active bonuses). 

Ah! Good reminder! I was getting confused about it being specific vs. generic, but that doesn’t matter for active effects. I’ll add it above. 
Are there any other specific +ACC effects like Hunter’s Claw? 

[thelee]

Just now, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Got it. It’s probably considered a passive source, then. Good to know for the accuracy with scrolls question. 

Ah! Good reminder! I was getting confused about it being specific vs. generic, but that doesn’t matter for active effects. I’ll add it above. 
Are there any other specific +ACC effects like Hunter’s Claw? 

what exactly is a "specific" accuracy bonus in the way you are using it?

[Ivanfyodorovich]

7 minutes ago, thelee said:

what exactly is a "specific" accuracy bonus in the way you are using it?

One that only applies in a more specific set of attacks, i.e. Hunter's Claw only applies to attacks against one type of enemy. 

[thelee]

11 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

One that only applies in a more specific set of attacks, i.e. Hunter's Claw only applies to attacks against one type of enemy. 

For understanding stacking I think a better way to think about it is that there’s generic, specific, and conditional, on top of active v passive. Hunters Claw is active+conditional+generic, so it will not stack with other sources of active+generic, but will stack with passive or active+specific.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

27 minutes ago, thelee said:

For understanding stacking I think a better way to think about it is that there’s generic, specific, and conditional, on top of active v passive. Hunters Claw is active+conditional+generic, so it will not stack with other sources of active+generic, but will stack with passive or active+specific.

Got it. So specific would be only with certain types of attacks in this case? 
 

edit - maybe clearer to ask what is an active + specific effect? 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Ivanfyodorovich
Clarity

[thelee]

2 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Got it. So specific would be only with certain types of attacks in this case? 
 

edit - maybe clearer to ask what is an active + specific effect? 

so i think i need to backtrack, i got myself confused by overthinking it.

i was trying to generalize from a phenomenon with some defenses:

robust/hardy/potions => generic +AR

barkskin => conditional +AR.

if you get hit by a shock, you don't get both the generic and barkskin bonus against it, you just get the higher.

 

versus:

arcane veil => +50 deflection

moonwell => +10 all defenses

if you get attacked by an arrow, you get both.

 

so what really matters is not conditional/specific/etc. it's just category. Hunter's Claw is a generic bonus, ultimately, it doesn't matter if it only is active agaisnt certain creature types. It will not stack with other generic accuracy bonuses. Marked Prey is not a generic accuracy bonus, it's a marked effect. It's not a "specific" effect, it's different 'category' of bonus.

 

 

 

[Boeroer]

Speaking of confused: you mean Woodskin.

Yes, when it comes to stacking there's only two things once must know *cough*

- passives stack with everything, actives don't

- active bonuses that are not in the same "category" will stack. 

BUT! While this sounds easy enough it comes with two big problems:

1. what bonus is passive or active?

2. how can I determine the category of a bonus?

While passive/active is easy enough to determine on the ability tree there a a lot more bonuses that are not in there, for example from items (passive), weapon proficiency modals (active), potions (active) and so on.

And to determine the category one can't help but either read up a lot of stuff on the internet or play the game a lot. There are some general rules that apply and are easy enough to remember (like two active bonuses that affect the exact same stat never stack) but there are also so many cases where you wouldn't think it stacks but it does (see +x to one defense vs +y to all defenses). Afaik there is no comprehensive list of bonuses with their stacking rules. Maybe we could have made one here but it's just a LOT to unpack...

Then there's also stuff that always stacks - like conversions (miss to graze to hit to crit) or power level bonuses (am I right here?).

I still don't reliably know the stacking of every effect in the game and probably never will.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[SArgentus]

I'm not entirely sure, as I am running a few mods, but:

The marked from Magistrate's Cudgel also seems to apply to other attacks besides the cudgel itself - that's +10 accuracy although you have to apply it to individual enemies by attacking them (or using one of the AOE attacks).

[Waski]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Then there's also stuff that always stacks - like conversions (miss to graze to hit to crit) or power level bonuses (am I right here?).

I don't it's true regarding PL. If my memory don't fail me potion of ascension won't stack with stone of power. But I am not 100% sure.

[Boeroer]

Oh? I thought Stone of Power stacked with everything but I'm also not sure...

...quot erat demonstrandum when it comes to my claim that I may never know all stackings.

[thelee]

Stone of Power does stack with everything. It's a case where an item-generated user-initiated ability is an exception to the normal stacking rules. I'm guessing there's some flag or bit they forgot to set in the game files, or maybe the designers themselves weren't in complete agreement on how to treat stacking for non-persistent effects coming from items. (In, fact I think it was @Boeroer himself who pointed this out to me and he was right.)

 

but in general PL bonuses obey normal stacking rules. However, there is a separate bug where resting bonuses transform from active to passive effects, so it is possible to stack PL a bit extra in this way using some foods.

Edited October 1, 2020 by thelee

[Waski]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

Stone of Power does stack with everything. It's a case where an item-generated user-initiated ability is an exception to the normal stacking rules. I'm guessing there's some flag or bit they forgot to set in the game files, or maybe the designers themselves weren't in complete agreement on how to treat stacking for non-persistent effects coming from items. (In, fact I think it was @Boeroer himself who pointed this out to me and he was right.)

I've checked it and it looks like it's not stacking