Politics 2020

[ComradeYellow]

Wow prophetic stuff right here.  The good stuff starts about 1 minute in for the impatient.

Edited September 28, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

The government backed those assets instead of regulating and punishing the organizations selling toxic assets. That government assurance meant that it was safe to invest even it failed because the Federal government would honor the debt

The assurance was post facto though, and more specifically post Lehmann's. The cause wasn't a governmental guarantee, it was peak 'free market' stupidity. It certainly codified the 'privatise profits, socialise losses' mentality but again that was post facto. The fact that it could happen again is because the government did not fix the fundamental issues, if they had fixed the issues a government guarantee would be irrelevant because... it couldn't happen again.

It's like the banks setting themselves on fire in a fail proof money making scheme- the government putting it out because the fire was going to take out a load of collateral damage isn't the problem, the problem is (1) the banks starting the fire and (2) when the government doesn't punish the banks nor prevent them doing the same thing again in 20 years time when they believe they've found another perpetual risk free money machine. Neither of those are the consequences of governmental intervention, but rather the reverse.

Quote

Student loans might as well be a massive citizen tax on higher education.

In most developed countries that is actually how things works. the government pays most of the cost (eg 75% here) and recoups it in added tax over the recipients' lifetime.

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Elerond said:

If you have lots of illegal immigrants in country,  making their status legal helps to control their economical impact better. As it is easier to regulate how much companies need to pay them for their work. It easier to spot abuse and low wages. It make easier to see where there is need for additional services (schools, shops, etc. every day services).

Meaning that immigrants don't only take jobs, but create them by needing services and stuff.  Uncontrollable immigration is problem, because it puts stress on existing systems faster than those systems can answer to increasing demand. Even though there are limit how much immigration country can handle it is always better to make immigrants somehow legal if you aren't able to sent them back to their home country, because if you let them became gray invisible mass which size isn't know, they will cause invisible stress to existing systems which is much more difficult to handle, as many issues will keep themselves in shadows until it is too late. 

One of the best ways to prevent illegal immigration is to kill demand for such immigrants. 

You make some reasonable points and I agree with some of them

But just to share something with you around the global immigration problem and how regions and countries deal with it. There are different levels of abuse and sometimes not much abuse of immigrants as the immigrants also benefit 

For example you mentioned the ME and countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, this region has been notorious for unfair labor practice for years in certain economic sectors like construction and house keeping, I have travelled many times to the ME and this is true. But this is not the same reality as citizens in countries like USA, EU, Australia or SA face around illegal immigration 

The ME brings in laborers and workers but they fly into the ME and only once they start working or sometimes at the airport there passports get confiscated and they have no choice but to accept certain work contracts which can be very unfair 

However with the other countries I mentioned immigrants dont fly into these countries because obviously the fact they dont have papers would be determined at the airport and custom checks and they would be refused entry. So the difference is illegal immigrants arrive at borders and enter the country illegally...but they are not prevented from working for different companies or taking daily jobs because there passports aren't necessary but the work is all in the informal sector in the example of the USA or where companies break the law and hire people without papers 

But the good news is the ME countries are changing slowly and committing to fair labor laws and recognizing workers rights 

https://www.bwint.org/cms/qatar-bwi-welcomes-important-progress-for-workers-rights-1997

 

[Darkpriest]

Conspiracy theory? 

https://freenet.space/read-blog/275_op-hmg-trojan-horse-from-integrity-initiative-to-covert-ops-around-the-globe-par.html

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Conspiracy theory? 

https://freenet.space/read-blog/275_op-hmg-trojan-horse-from-integrity-initiative-to-covert-ops-around-the-globe-par.html

I read the general summary and I find it hard to believe, whenever I read a generalized statement like  " Law-abiding British taxpayers continue to sponsor dozens of military crimes committed all over the world " I become very skeptical about anything after that in this type of  " exposé " 

[Darkpriest]

Yes, i find it "meh" whenever the reporter finds a reason to make something more sensational than it already should be based on the content of the 'leak' itslef. 

 

Nevertheless, more probable than most tinfoily reporting, like the one with some doctored logs of some suppoesedly alt-right group formed mid summer in Oregon 

[Maedhros]

16 hours ago, Gromnir said:

have mentioned this in the food thread, except for the southern cook's mirepoix (green bell pepper, celery, onion) for things such as red beans and rice, we never would use green bell pepper. the difference 'tween your fancy red pepper and a green bell pepper is that the green is not yet ripe. is not as if it is a different variety o' pepper from the red.  

green bell pepper tastes a bit like red wine which has turned. am not joking. pyrazines is a thing in green bell pepper which is one o' the components in bad wine. we don't drink wine and only use for cooking, but we nevertheless may recognize when the liquid has turned and the stink o' mushy green peppers is a dead give away.

Agree with your point on bell peppers. On a sidenote for those interested (none?), pyrazines in wine isn't inherently a bad thing, and it doesn't have to mean a wine has turned bad. Herbal aromas from moderate pyrazine levels in wine can be very appealing if done right. All the Bordeaux grapes have pyrazines for example.

A Sauvignon Blanc can have an appealing "grassy" aroma,  a classic aged red Bordeaux can have a delicious warm red bell pepper scent. The green bell pepper aroma is a trademark of Cabernet franc and not a wine fault. Extreme levels of pyrazine = bad. Moderate levels = can be good and adds complexity.

 

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I read the general summary and I find it hard to believe, whenever I read a generalized statement like  " Law-abiding British taxpayers continue to sponsor dozens of military crimes committed all over the world " I become very skeptical about anything after that in this type of  " exposé " 

Why do you find that hard to believe ?

Sort of random news, but former Trump campaign manager apparently had a mental episode - https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/09/28/former-trump-campaign-manager-brad-pascale-armed-barricades-self-in-fl-home-police-called/

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Why do you find that hard to believe ?

Sort of random news, but former Trump campaign manager apparently had a mental episode - https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/09/28/former-trump-campaign-manager-brad-pascale-armed-barricades-self-in-fl-home-police-called/

 

Several reasons but based just on the conspiracy theory link Dark provided it talks extensively about British troops being active in Syria

British troops werent deployed to Syria, there was no reason for the UK to do this so if you can find me just one credible link discussing this  from any international  news network website, like Al Jazeera if you dont trust other media houses, I will definitely read it and possibly change my opinion on this

The only information I can find discuss possible deployments in 2019 

 

[Zoraptor]

British troops were/ are 100% deployed to Syria proper- specifically NE Syria and around Al Tanf in the south. Officially, they're kind of Schrondingers deployment, when Turkey invades it's grossly irresponsible because French and British troops may get hurt, if the US withdraws the French and Brits will have too as well so the US should keep on "taking the oil"; otherwise those French and British troops... aren't there. They were also 100% training rebels in Jordan in exactly the way described. They also (along with other western allies and Israel) 100% extricated more than 1000 (local) personnel from southern Syria when that front collapsed and surrendered, including some from Jaish Khalid ibn Walid (ISIS) areas. They also arranged for payments to groups like the White Helmets knowing that many/ most were active fighters, specifically because they could legally pay humanitarian workers like medical staff or police but not fighters. They also manipulated media coverage to suppress evidence in the media like 40% of nerve gas victims arriving at hospital before the attack even happened and embiggen the impossible 'super sarin' mix of chlorine and sarin Macron made up. The only thing the Anonymous leaks show is what mechanisms they used to do it.

You're not going to get UK media talking about how they were manipulated by their own government into supporting cannibals, rapists, ethnic cleansers, child killers* etc- and they're almost certainly under the aegis of a National Security Letter equivalent anyway.

*southern front weren't too bad actually, but like most got co-opted by Al Qaeda/ Jabhat al Nusra which was when Jordan cut off support. Having said that, the Turkish supported thugs that media decry in Kurdish areas and are currently being sent to murder Armenians were overwhelmingly... the western vetted moderate opposition, when that existed.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

British troops were/ are 100% deployed to Syria proper- specifically NE Syria and around Al Tanf in the south. Officially, they're kind of Schrondingers deployment, when Turkey invades it's grossly irresponsible because French and British troops may get hurt, if the US withdraws the French and Brits will have too as well so the US should keep on "taking the oil"; otherwise those French and British troops... aren't there. They were also 100% training rebels in Jordan in exactly the way described. They also (along with other western allies and Israel) 100% extricated more than 1000 (local) personnel from southern Syria when that front collapsed and surrendered, including some from Jaish Khalid ibn Walid (ISIS) areas. They also arranged for payments to groups like the White Helmets knowing that many/ most were active fighters, specifically because they could legally pay humanitarian workers like medical staff or police but not fighters. They also manipulated media coverage to suppress evidence in the media like 40% of nerve gas victims arriving at hospital before the attack even happened and embiggen the impossible 'super sarin' mix of chlorine and sarin Macron made up. The only thing the Anonymous leaks show is what mechanisms they used to do it.

You're not going to get UK media talking about how they were manipulated by their own government into supporting cannibals, rapists, ethnic cleansers, child killers* etc- and they're almost certainly under the aegis of a National Security Letter equivalent anyway.

*southern front weren't too bad actually, but like most got co-opted by Al Qaeda/ Jabhat al Nusra which was when Jordan cut off support. Having said that, the Turkish supported thugs that media decry in Kurdish areas and are currently being sent to murder Armenians were overwhelmingly... the western vetted moderate opposition, when that existed.

Links ? I particularly want to read how what you mentioned is an example of " Law-abiding British taxpayers continue to sponsor dozens of military crimes committed all over the world" 

 

 

 

[Darkpriest]

Aaaaaaaand another one... 

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/ilhan-omar-connected-cash-for-ballots-voter-fraud-scheme-corrupts-elections/

 

More stories like this, more focus on such stories and you can bet, that whomever wins in the contested election, will be considered illegitimate by the other side. 

Now we need some news about some dubious actions by USPS, stamps or other stuff related to the process, to complete the bloodbowl grounds. 

[Elerond]

Project Veritas is excellent source for everything as they have get caught of faking evidence only couple dozen times 

[BruceVC]

16 hours ago, Malcador said:

Why do you find that hard to believe ?

Sort of random news, but former Trump campaign manager apparently had a mental episode - https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/09/28/former-trump-campaign-manager-brad-pascale-armed-barricades-self-in-fl-home-police-called/

 

Malc have you heard from volo recently,  he has been conspicuous by his absence ?

I hope he is okay, I know he didnt believe in wearing a mask so I hope his silence isnt related to the virus

 

[Darkpriest]

16 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Project Veritas is excellent source for everything as they have get caught of faking evidence only couple dozen times 

Good luck rationalizing these type of messages to polarized society, which already is in a state the both sides do not trust a word, what the other side says. 

Even if a part of it is fake, it will resonate and will be spinned. 

You also had the same going the other direction, where some were reporting USPS removing mailboxes ina grand conspiracy. 

It doesn't matter what the truth is. What matters is what people believe the truth is... You already have this displayed on examples of various religions or ideologies. You have a proof of that with thousands years of history. 

 

That is why a process should be as clean and as simple as possible, especially during societal unrests and conflicts. 

 

 

[BruceVC]

So who is going to watch the first presidential debate tonight  between Trump and Biden?

I want to but its a bit late for SA time, I think it starts at 1am for me so I will watch the highlights tomorrow

Edited September 29, 2020 by BruceVC

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

So who is going to watch the first presidential debate tonight  between Trump and Biden?

I want to but its a bit late for SA time, I think it starts at 1am for me so I will watch the highlights tomorrow

"You are Putin's puppet!" vs. "You're a trojan horse for the radical left!"

Yeah sorry these two neoliberal clowns would be serve the country by rotting in a cell.  Lose-lose situation for anyone who's remotely left-leaning.

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

"You are Putin's puppet!" vs. "You're a trojan horse for the radical left!"

Yeah sorry these two neoliberal clowns would be serve the country by rotting in a cell.  Lose-lose situation for anyone who's remotely left-leaning.

You right I am afraid, its a terrible time to be a Socialist ....what dont you switch sides?

And its easier than you think. It starts with something incredibly simple but symbolic....you change your forum name to " CapitalistMaster " , personally I think its got a nice ring to it ?

[Amentep]

53 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

You right

Pretty sure he left.

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Links ? I particularly want to read how what you mentioned is an example of " Law-abiding British taxpayers continue to sponsor dozens of military crimes committed all over the world" 

For UK troops, just look uo Operation Shader. 

 

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Malc have you heard from volo recently,  he has been conspicuous by his absence ?

The Nazis finally got him, maybe.  He will be avenged!

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Malcador said:

For UK troops, just look uo Operation Shader. 

 

 

Thanks, I  did some reading on this and it discusses UK military intervention in numerous ME conflicts 

But its not covert military intervention or what the Anonymous  article suggested that the UK is involved in " military crimes ". The UK parliament officially supported Operation Shader as a legitimate UK military intervention.

https://www.forces.net/news/three-years-op-shader-1500-airstrikes-against-islamic-state

I also see there are small groups of UK soldiers deployed to Syria so I was wrong to say " the UK has not deployed military " 

But my point was really how Anonymous has mischaracterized the UK global role it has played in legal military intervention 

 

[Elerond]

5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Good luck rationalizing these type of messages to polarized society, which already is in a state the both sides do not trust a word, what the other side says. 

Even if a part of it is fake, it will resonate and will be spinned. 

You also had the same going the other direction, where some were reporting USPS removing mailboxes ina grand conspiracy. 

It doesn't matter what the truth is. What matters is what people believe the truth is... You already have this displayed on examples of various religions or ideologies. You have a proof of that with thousands years of history. 

 

That is why a process should be as clean and as simple as possible, especially during societal unrests and conflicts. 

 

 

When you don't care if claims are true or not, then it does not matter if process is clean and simple as possible as it does matter because other side cheats anyway

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

When you don't care if claims are true or not, then it does not matter if process is clean and simple as possible as it does matter because other side cheats anyway

True, still it's harder to find some evidence and faking it can make some things absurd. 

What's easier to believe? 

That bad actors will be committing fraud on mails, which are just pieces of marked paper and there is so much that can be done to that

OR

That some great Russian mafia/Alliens/Illuminati hijacked elections

[Elerond]

People believed that there was child prostitution ring in basement of one tier building that doesn't have basement without evidence and didn't not believe pictures and videos that showed that there was no basement.

So people will believe anything their side tells them regardless of facts evidence or probability of the thing.

Voting by mail has been most popular in states controlled by Republicans. So it isn't like those who no 'fear' voting by mail aren't familiar with the system and know that it is as safe as voting in person. Especially when you take in account that majority of in person votes are done with over decade old voting machines that have know security issues.

[Guard Dog]

Libertarian nominee Jo Jorgensen on voting third party and why America should be more like Switzerland

well, she is getting my vote. Neither Trump nor Biden deserve it. Just because somebody hands me a bag of poop does not mean I have to take it.