Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[Boeroer]

43 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

A bug with Avenging Storm: if you Empower it with Quick Empower, you have no recovery on ALL your subsequent weapon attacks. Basically you have Blade Cascade while Avenging Storm is active

[NotDumbEnough]

His mod removed Lasting Empower because of its bugginess and replaced it with a passive that removes recovery from empowered attacks. Unfortunately every single proc of empowered Avenging Storm seems to be considered as empowered so you just attack with no recovery. Especially obvious on Tekehu since he gets it automatically as a Stormspeaker and you can empower something every fight with Sasha's Singing Scimitar.

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

A bug with Avenging Storm: if you Empower it with Quick Empower, you have no recovery on ALL your subsequent weapon attacks. Basically you have Blade Cascade while Avenging Storm is active

Yup, I'm aware of it. I tried 2 quick fixes yesterday and today but still does not work. 

Seems tricky. I won't correct it in next version (which main aim was to quickly bridge the gap with CP 2.0, probably released this weekend).

I recommend not using this cheesy combo for now.

But hey, we are all responsible adults

Edited February 23, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Oh, then you will have the same problems with Storm of Holy Fire, Missile Salvo and other stuff that triggers the Least Unstable Coil multiple times I guess.

[Elric Galad]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Oh, then you will have the same problems with Storm of Holy Fire, Missile Salvo and other stuff that triggers the Least Unstable Coil multiple times I guess.

I guess so. At least it does not work on normal pulsating spells. Also for the named spells, the recovery is negated when the attack periodically occurs, not just after each melee attack. That's why the Avenging Storm version is so hilarious.

I'm not feeling particularly guilty since Lasting Empower has been bugged from Vanilla to CP but this is something to correct.

I don't think correcting the bug should be too complicated since it's only about making a passive only procs once per encounter. But I haven't made such a tweak untill now so I have to figure which parameters work and which don't. (Which involves a lot of reload and my free time has been super scarce since the birth of my second child ). That's why I prioritize uploading the version compatible with CP 2.0.

If any fellow modder has a chance to figure how to do with that particular file, it would certainly hasten the process

[Boeroer]

29 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

my free time has been super scarce since the birth of my second child 

Oh I feel you... I remember...

Wait until no. 3 comes around.

[Jayd]

Found a bug: the new bonus on Great Soul is clearing on rest, at least for Aloth. He gains extra I&II casts when I pick it but then loses that bonus after a rest - I need to respec to get it again. Sorry if this is known already.

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Jayd said:

Found a bug: the new bonus on Great Soul is clearing on rest, at least for Aloth. He gains extra I&II casts when I pick it but then loses that bonus after a rest - I need to respec to get it again. Sorry if this is known already.

Are you using version 1.4.1 I released this Friday ? This was addressed among the bugfixes.

But you may have to respec once more after adding the new version for the game to take into account new Passives.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Jayd]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Are you using version 1.4.1 I released this Friday ? This was addressed among the bugfixes.

But you may have to respec once more after adding the new version for the game to take into account new Passives.

Apologies; I hadn't updated. Thanks!

[Elric Galad]

Okay, I'm going back to Wiz specialist subclasses :

Illusionist : I think I will go with a 10% chance of triggering Mirror Images when Hit or Crit Vs Deflection. This is an infinite version of their current passive, but less reliable. 6 Hits or Crits are needed before Mirror Images wear off, which gives a good chance of Mirror Images to be up again before being fully used.

This is basically passive mirror images with a random factor.

Do you think it could be a good change ? What do think about the 10% value ?

[Elric Galad]

Transmuter : I already buffed Form of the Fearsome Brute. I think it is pretty solid at low level :
Form of the Fearsome Brute changes :
- Form of the Fearsome Brute Armor : +100% Recovery -> +20% Recovery
- Form of the FearsomeBrute Fist : 13-25 damages, 6 PEN -> 18-24 damages, 7 PEN (-> probably going to set it to 8 PEN to match 2 handed weapons EDIT : ney,  I forgot it was dual type)
- Form of the Fearsome Brute duration : 30s -> 20s
- Form of the Fearsome Brute engagement: +1 Engagement -> +3
The issue is that at high level, this isn't that good, especially because it replaces any weapon/armor set and prevent using spells.
I had to buff other summoned weapons because of similar reason.
I think Form of the Fearsome Brute needs some SCALING property to remain significant at high level.

I thought about adding 2% damages resistance per character level (up to 40%). This is very strong (but not to the level of Unbending) and pair well with added engagements.
That said, it is probably necessary to have something like this to compensate from unability to cast spells, compare favorably to stuff like Citzal Lance, compensate for the absence of CItzal' Martial prowess and remain an asset of the subclass. 


Enchanter : This is probably the subclass which benefit the least from +2 PL. It almost only buffs duration, and high level enchanting spells are quite situational.
Also, like for illusionist, I don't like 1/encounter passive that prevent you from choosing the moment it triggers.
My proposal is the following : 2 effects :
- +15% duration of beneficial effects (on self) : general goodies of the subclass
- Immunity to Dexterity Afflictions when under the effect of a Dexterity Inspiration : makes Fleet Feet and DAoM very reliable for this subclass.
I think it's good enough for some builds, and makes self-buffing very smooth.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Elric Galad

[SArgentus]

Adding on to the rebalancing of wizard subclasses, I've found that you can make the Conjurers familiar independent from other summons by using the "NotSummoned" SummonType instead - only issue is that it allows you to summon more than one familiar (Can be fixed by adding a keyworded destroy attack that triggers on start of casting like the Mage Slayer disruption), but I don't think it's a big issue since the PL bonus doesn't stack anyways.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

47 minutes ago, SArgentus said:

Adding on to the rebalancing of wizard subclasses, I've found that you can make the Conjurers familiar independent from other summons by using the "NotSummoned" SummonType instead - only issue is that it allows you to summon more than one familiar (Can be fixed by adding a keyworded destroy attack that triggers on start of casting like the Mage Slayer disruption), but I don't think it's a big issue since the PL bonus doesn't stack anyways.

This is a cool idea, but actually not needed. The conjurer's familiar bonus remains even if you summon other things after it. It lasts for all of combat, and you can summon as many other things as you like. 

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, SArgentus said:

Adding on to the rebalancing of wizard subclasses, I've found that you can make the Conjurers familiar independent from other summons by using the "NotSummoned" SummonType instead - only issue is that it allows you to summon more than one familiar (Can be fixed by adding a keyworded destroy attack that triggers on start of casting like the Mage Slayer disruption), but I don't think it's a big issue since the PL bonus doesn't stack anyways.

Ah, that's a good find !
I think I tried it, but somehow I must have done a mistake and concluded it didn't work.
KW destroyed attack would mess with multiple conjurer I presume...

Stackable familiar + instacast might be an overkill though, especially with some ressource regen (a tactician will have an easy time flanking everybody with an infinite flood of familiar  

But this is really something to consider for Conjurer.
 

28 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

This is a cool idea, but actually not needed. The conjurer's familiar bonus remains even if you summon other things after it. It lasts for all of combat, and you can summon as many other things as you like. 

I didn't know that. Must be a glitch. Even with non-modded version, it sounds slightly gamebreaking, especially if one tries to summon in succession multiple different familiars for multipe stats bonus (Familiar isn't only about PL).

[SArgentus]

  

29 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Ah, that's a good find !
I think I tried it, but somehow I must have done a mistake and concluded it didn't work.
KW destroyed attack would mess with multiple conjurer I presume...

Stackable familiar + instacast might be an overkill though, especially with some ressource regen (a tactician will have an easy time flanking everybody with an infinite flood of familiar  

But this is really something to consider for Conjurer.
 

I didn't know that. Must be a glitch. Even with non-modded version, it sounds slightly gamebreaking, especially if one tries to summon in succession multiple different familiars for multipe stats bonus (Familiar isn't only about PL).

Didn't know about the buff staying either - might be a lot to change for some visual feedback with little mechanical change (besides a very weak summon).

KW destroy would be with a new unique KW for familiars, so it should avoid destroying other summons/characters

 

I'm currently working on changing it to a pseudo animal companion (Permanent summon, out of combat bonus which is what I originally though it would be when I read the subclass text - It's not really balanced however and way too good when you can choose the summon).

 

I really like the idea of rewarding spell usage of your chosen school - like how evocation has a chance to echo, one could make similar bonuses for the each subclass:

Conjurer could have a chance to summon imps on casting Conjuration spells

Enchanter could have your free action bonus

Illusion could either have illusory buffs or something similar to the Eye of Wael random illusion on hit (one per spellcast or low chance to avoid AOE shenanigans)

Transmuter I'm not so sure about - I always felt that the brute transformation only covered one part of what I usually associate with the Transmutation school.. could be debuffing the enemies or buffing self or allies?

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by SArgentus

[Elric Galad]

27 minutes ago, SArgentus said:

  

Didn't know about the buff staying either - might be a lot to change for some visual feedback with little mechanical change (besides a very weak summon).

KW destroy would be with a new unique KW for familiars, so it should avoid destroying other summons/characters

Yep, but will mess with multiple Conjurers. That's why I think the most fun but balanced way would be to enable multiple familiar but go back to normal casting time for them. Would be pretty fun anyway. Familiars aren't that good summon on their own, so with long casting time, it would be ok.

 

The sticking bonus after familiar is gone is a glitch, I think. I'm going to try to find a way to correct it, unless @Phenomenum and @MaxQuest want to include such a correction within Community Patch.

27 minutes ago, SArgentus said:

I'm currently working on changing it to a pseudo animal companion (Permanent summon, out of combat bonus which is what I originally though it would be when I read the subclass text - It's not really balanced however and way too good when you can choose the summon).

Pretty cool modding, not sure about balance and would feel weird on a Conjurer/Ranger.

27 minutes ago, SArgentus said:

I really like the idea of rewarding spell usage of your chosen school - like how evocation has a chance to echo, one could make similar bonuses for the each subclass:

Conjurer could have a chance to summon imps on casting Conjuration spells

Enchanter could have your free action bonus

Illusion could either have illusory buffs or something similar to the Eye of Wael random illusion on hit (one per spellcast or low chance to avoid AOE shenanigans)

Transmuter I'm not so sure about - I always felt that the brute transformation only covered one part of what I usually associate with the Transmutation school.. could be debuffing the enemies or buffing self or allies?

 

The issue is that I don't like bonus that only benefits your main school. It makes the subclass less interesting IMHO. It suits fluff wise an evoker who is basically a nuker supported by self buff but for the other subclasses I would prefer not. And I prefer to stay a bit closer from the original versions.

[SArgentus]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yep, but will mess with multiple Conjurers. That's why I think the most fun but balanced way would be to enable multiple familiar but go back to normal casting time for them. Would be pretty fun anyway. Familiars aren't that good summon on their own, so with long casting time, it would be ok.

Oh yeah, that's true! Didn't think about multiple conjurers - usually only test with one

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

The issue is that I don't like bonus that only benefits your main school. It makes the subclass less interesting IMHO. It suits fluff wise an evoker who is basically a nuker supported by self buff but for the other subclasses I would prefer not. And I prefer to stay a bit closer from the original versions.

I understand. I'm also on the fence on whether it is too far from the original experience and would be jarring in context of the rest of the game - but generally moving away from the 1/encounter stuff like free action and reflexive mirror and towards something that changes how the class plays a bit more is good!

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, SArgentus said:

I understand. I'm also on the fence on whether it is too far from the original experience and would be jarring in context of the rest of the game - but generally moving away from the 1/encounter stuff like free action and reflexive mirror and towards something that changes how the class plays a bit more is good!

1/encounter stuff does not bother me that much unless they are from passive. It's a bit infuriating to be prevented from choosing when using your jokers...
(Unbreakable is fine because dying is rare and resurrecting always goo in this context). I wanted to go away from this while buffing a bit the subclasses.

[Phenomenum]

22 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

The sticking bonus after familiar is gone is a glitch, I think.

Interesting. I've checked familiar buffs and:

1. Familiar are origin of this effects – these abilities belongs to familiar according to progressiontables.gamedata

2. If these effects tend to stick to character, this is some kind of program bug, because effects itself are OK, contain no mistakes and should be disappear with origin (familiar) death.

3. So "ClearOnDeath": "true" can make it work (or don't). Otherwise i see no workarounds.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Phenomenum

[Elric Galad]

Just now, Phenomenum said:

Interesting. I've checked familiar buffs and:

1. Familiar are origin of this effects – these abilities belongs to familiar according to progressiontables.gamedata

2. If these effects tend to stick to character, this is some kind of program bug, because effects itself are OK, contain no mistakes and should be disappear with origin (familiar) death.

3. So "ClearOnDeath": "true" can make it work (or don't). Otherwise i see no workarounds.

If it doesn't wok, the "hard" workaround would be to give it a duration. Wouldn't be perfect but better than infinite duration.

[Phenomenum]

2 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

he "hard" workaround would be to give it a duration.

Yes, it obvious lazy fix))
The problem is: familiar lifetime is scales with caster INT, but duration of familiar's buffs don't (more than than that, all familiars have 10 in all stats).

[Phenomenum]

5 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Wouldn't be perfect but better than infinite duration.

Sure.

[NotDumbEnough]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:23 AM, Elric Galad said:

Okay, I'm going back to Wiz specialist subclasses :

Illusionist : I think I will go with a 10% chance of triggering Mirror Images when Hit or Crit Vs Deflection. This is an infinite version of their current passive, but less reliable. 6 Hits or Crits are needed before Mirror Images wear off, which gives a good chance of Mirror Images to be up again before being fully used.

This is basically passive mirror images with a random factor.

Do you think it could be a good change ? What do think about the 10% value ?

I personally think the current iteration is better; illusionists shouldn't be getting hit that often for a 10% chance to be useful, and in fact may be dead before it even procs. I think the problem with illusionists is that they lack non-Evocation damage spells, and the lack of T9 illusion spells, not their passive ability.

[Elric Galad]

27 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I personally think the current iteration is better; illusionists shouldn't be getting hit that often for a 10% chance to be useful, and in fact may be dead before it even procs. I think the problem with illusionists is that they lack non-Evocation damage spells, and the lack of T9 illusion spells, not their passive ability.

Current implementation is strictly worse than a bonus tier 2 cast... In a really tough fight, just start by casting mirror images, it needs 6 hits to be dispelled so there is a high chance to be renewed before being removed.

[Boeroer]

The chance for it to proc during 6 hits or crits is ~47%. Not too shabby.