POE 2 is my favorite cRPG

[Jill7894]

As the title states, and I own POE 2, POE 1, and Tyranny from Obsidian sooo I hope that this doesn't cross some line of conflict of interest in the case there's some rule against it. Anyways, I've got a rather long vacation at hand and I was wondering if anyone could list some cRPGs (especially ones that haven't received a ton of mainstream attention) for me made, say, since 2010? I've done tons of google searches, but it seems like their algorithm is biased towards counting cRPG as RPG.

Thanks!

[omgFIREBALLS]

Pathfinder: Kingmaker? Might go against your mainstream attention criteria, but if you want an isometric fantasy RPG with yourself at the mercy of a d20 just like in Baldur's Gate, it might be your game.

[Jill7894]

Hmm, already have it.  I have poe 2, poe 1, tyranny, pathfinder kingmaker, atom rpg, divinity 2, torment tides of numenara, wasteland 2, and a couple others I think.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Jill7894

[msyoung]

How about Fallout, Fallout 4, Fallout New Vegas (skip Fallout 76), Skyrim and Oblivion to start. All are good games but not new.

[Jill7894]

50 minutes ago, msyoung said:

How about Fallout, Fallout 4, Fallout New Vegas (skip Fallout 76), Skyrim and Oblivion to start. All are good games but not new.

Got all of them, lol, including Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics.

[omgFIREBALLS]

Alright, how about this then. Spellforce 3: Soul Harvest. It probably hasn't received much attention because there's hardly been any marketing.

The game is a mix of RPG and RTS. Sometimes you control only your squad of four heroes, sometimes them plus a base and an army and all that stuff. I don't like the RTS part, but I considered it a necessary evil I had to endure because I found the RPG systems (skills/attributes) and the combat quite satisfying. I've long wanted to play an RPG with real-time combat*, seeing the action unfold while I direct my band of heroes to victory. While this game isn't my dream come true, it came close enough that I poured hundreds of hours into it. You can, if you prefer, play it as RTwP, after a fashion at least.

The plot is "fine". Being my first Spellforce game I don't have the problems that many veterans have, which is that the current devs seemingly didn't do their homework and as a result the lore is dissonant with the canon. But it has a story, characters, yada yada. Not the most memorable but enough for me. Certainly not varied though, nearly all your decisions are fluff without long-term impact or story branching potential. I replayed it to try new builds.

* In case anyone wants to tell me I can just play PoE/BG/IWD without pause: They don't have the UI to allow me to make quick and informed decisions (frankly, I have issues with the Soul Harvest UI too)

Edited December 28, 2019 by omgFIREBALLS

[Jill7894]

I have looked at Spellforce, but the quick combat without RTwP through me off a bit (not a fan of turn-based in modern games but I absolutely love RTwP). What sort of fashioning would I have to do to make it effectively RTwP and also how long is the game?

Also, is the RTS part more like a typical RTS where you have to build things and farm resources in real time, or is it more like the Total War series, where you're basically just going real time for battles?

Edited December 28, 2019 by Jill7894

[omgFIREBALLS]

(Note - only talking Soul Harvest now, haven't tried/didn't like other SF titles)

There isn't strictly RTwP, but there is an action wheel function in the UI (just press alt IIRC). I don't use it, but there's an option to slow the game down or pause it entirely while the wheel is up. From there you can perform an action from the wheel and then the game will unpause again.

Yeah, more like a typical RTS. It certainly has its own twists, but it's always real time.

[kanisatha]

How about Tower of Time? And there's always also Dragon Age: Origins.

[Hawke64]

I second Dragon Age and would recommend Dungeon Siege III, Shadowrun: Hong Kong and Dragonfall (cyberpunk setting with turn-based combat). Also there are Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, GreedFall and Pyre, though they are third-person (not isometric) action-RPG.

[draego]

Yes the Shadowrun series is fun. i think of the 3 Shadowrun games Dragonfall is the best and definitely worth a play. 

[Jill7894]

22 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

(Note - only talking Soul Harvest now, haven't tried/didn't like other SF titles)

There isn't strictly RTwP, but there is an action wheel function in the UI (just press alt IIRC). I don't use it, but there's an option to slow the game down or pause it entirely while the wheel is up. From there you can perform an action from the wheel and then the game will unpause again.

Yeah, more like a typical RTS. It certainly has its own twists, but it's always real time.

So is Spellforce 3 game more cRPG, more RTS, or an even balance of both?

Edited December 29, 2019 by Jill7894

[omgFIREBALLS]

Again, I can't speak for other titles than Soul Harvest, and that includes base SF3. To me, Soul Harvest is more cRPG. For starters, for a majority of the content you do not play RTS, although that's not an easy thing to measure; if you struggle with RTS, those missions will take a long time, and thus comprise a larger portion. Even when you play RTS, you also play to some degree cRPG: There's always more stuff to do on a map than just destroy the enemy base, although it can be nice to do that first so you can do the other stuff in peace and quiet.

I've also devised lazy ways to win every RTS mission, even at the highest difficulty (frankly, the difficulty tuning ain't all that for RTS). Also, your heroes can eventually become powerful enough that you don't need to RTS. You just control your four man army destroying, base razing machine. That said, I have read stories about people who just wanted to RPG and couldn't get past the RTS missions even at the lowest setting, I think perhaps because the AI doesn't play differently no matter the difficulty, just the damage numbers get skewed in your favor.

Also, I don't find it a satisfying RTS experience. Been a while since I played but I do recall taking issue with the UI in several ways. But, it has some refreshing twists like you don't manually control your workers and they have a separate population count.

Edit: I should make clear how action bars are handled, because it bothers me. There's a shared action bar with a total of 24 slots that your heroes have to, uh, share. The benefit is you don't have to select your tank to taunt; you bind taunt, you press it, aim it, tank taunts. It was a new idea, and I don't like it, though one benefit I appreciate is that you can always see everyone's cooldowns.

One downside is this limits you to an average of six keybound actions per hero. If you want to bind healing and focus (mana) potions, that's two. Trinket with use effect, that's three. Now you can bind... three abilities! You can get a lot more than that, and I long ago gave up on binding anyone's potions. They can be clicked, but it's not ideal.

Another is you have to think of 24 smooth binds. I was able to do that fine, but it's not how you want to start your game, because the default binds are F1-F12 which is just awful (the other 12 binds are shift + the first 12 binds). So I had to change those binds, then I had to assign some obscure stuff to handle the command card, because I was overwriting those in the process. (for the record, WC3/SC2 are examples of how I think this should be handled - everything on the command card, select hero, press key to use ability/item)

A (smaller) third problem is that when your party composition changes you have to address any conflicts with the shared action bar (Alice left, Bob joined, Bob started using Alice's vacated slots, but later you have both Bob and Alice in the party). While easily done, it does mess with your muscle memory.

For all my complaints, the game did offer quite interesting character build options for a non-AAA game (and surpassing some AAA games for that matter) and an okayish fix for my real time RPG combat addiction.

Edited December 29, 2019 by omgFIREBALLS

[Jill7894]

Alright, it sounds pretty damn good. I'll get Spellforce 3 right now since its on a good sale on steam then go for Soul Harvest afterwards. I've got a lot of experience with the Total War series and some experience with RTS, so that portion shouldn't be hard. Then I always play cRPGs on hard+.

Thanks!

Edited December 29, 2019 by Jill7894

[omgFIREBALLS]

You should note that SF3's UI is a bit different from SH's and there was pretty much a stated sales pitch that if you buy both, you will eventually be able to play the SF3 campaign in the SH engine (same engine probably, but yeah the UI). That said, the devs have gone... quiet about this and everything else.

I believe SH is generally considered an improvement. I don't like the SF3 action bars for instance, they're even worse. Uh, anyway, what I said about SH does not necessarily apply to SF3. And, do check my edits to my previous post. But, above all else, enjoy

[Jill7894]

Does anyone know if Sword Coast Legends is any good? I read that it's RTwP and I REALLY prefer RTwP over turn based.

[xzar_monty]

Its reception has been fairly poor, but of course that is not a direct answer to your question.

I can feel your pain, though: I loved BG2, PoE, Deadfire and P:K, and I would dearly like to play another game of that quality and in that genre. But as far as I'm aware, there aren't any.

[omgFIREBALLS]

1 hour ago, Jill7894 said:

Does anyone know if Sword Coast Legends is any good? I read that it's RTwP and I REALLY prefer RTwP over turn based.

It's freaking Dungeons and Diablo. Paraphrased excerpt of a piece of powergaming advice from those forums back when I played it: Teach your wizard to wear all types of armor. Then stack all the randomly affixed cooldown reduction items you find on them. Now you can largely perma-CC enemies.

We can all hope for BG3 to be the next big thing. By the way, cheers to RTwP from here too. It saddens me how RPG's seem to gravitate towards turn based.

[kanisatha]

4 hours ago, Jill7894 said:

Does anyone know if Sword Coast Legends is any good? I read that it's RTwP and I REALLY prefer RTwP over turn based.

The criticism of the game was largely about the DM/coop side of the game and that it deviated significantly from D&D rules despite supposedly being D&D 5e. If you play the game single-player, and don't get too caught up in whether or not it is "truly D&D," it is actually a pretty good and fun game.

You definitely should also check out Tower of Time. It has RTwP combat that it somewhat challenging.

Edited December 29, 2019 by kanisatha

[Jill7894]

To be honest, I think that turn based is more popular because it tends to be easier and simpler for casuals and inexperienced players. I mean, I think turn based was fine a long time ago before more streamlined systems, like RTwP were really solidified (which, of course, was a long time ago too) but I really see no reason for turn based to dominate the markets now. I mean, with RTwP if there's 3 enemies, I can wipe them out in 30 seconds and be done with it, but with turn based it can take like 5 minutes plus - it's absurdly monotonous, unnecessary, bogged down and repetitive. I want to have full control over my main character, who usually turns out to be an utter beast, not make a couple moves with her and then wait 3 minutes until I can use her again.

Why, for instance, are Wasteland 2 and 3 turn based, when Fallout Tactics worked perfectly without turn based all the way back in like 2003?

I feel like I'm endlessly seeking out more RTwP games, yet most the new games coming out seem to be crappy turn based.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Jill7894

[Jill7894]

7 hours ago, kanisatha said:

The criticism of the game was largely about the DM/coop side of the game and that it deviated significantly from D&D rules despite supposedly being D&D 5e. If you play the game single-player, and don't get too caught up in whether or not it is "truly D&D," it is actually a pretty good and fun game.

You definitely should also check out Tower of Time. It has RTwP combat that it somewhat challenging.

I'll be sure to check out Tower of Time. I really don't care about coop or multiplayer, so as long as the single-players good, that's good for me lol.

[daven]

KOTOR 1/2 are good check them out, even if you don't like Star Wars.

[Jill7894]

So it looks like Temple of Elemental Evil has some very nice graphics for 2003. I suppose I should ask if there are any other games from around the same time that have roughly the same quality, if not better obviously, graphics as ToEE but that are RTwP?

Apparently Sword Coast Legends has been pulled from gog and steam and I can't find it anywhere....

Edited December 30, 2019 by Jill7894

[Frog Man]

3 hours ago, Jill7894 said:

To be honest, I think that turn based is more popular because it tends to be easier and simpler for casuals and inexperienced players. I mean, I think turn based was fine a long time ago before more streamlined systems, like RTwP were really solidified (which, of course, was a long time ago too) but I really see no reason for turn based to dominate the markets now. I mean, with RTwP if there's 3 enemies, I can wipe them out in 30 seconds and be done with it, but with turn based it can take like 5 minutes plus - it's absurdly monotonous, unnecessary, bogged down and repetitive. I want to have full control over my main character, who usually turns out to be an utter beast, not make a couple moves with her and then wait 3 minutes until I can use her again.

Why, for instance, are Wasteland 2 and 3 turn based, when Fallout Tactics worked perfectly without turn based all the way back in like 2003?

I feel like I'm endlessly seeking out more RTwP games, yet most the new games coming out seem to be crappy turn based.

So I disagree on your assumption why turn-based is more popular. I was RTWP all the way for decades (Baldurs fate, ice wind dale, pillars1), but recently I’ve tried turn based and I can’t go back. I feel like so many little actions can get lost in like 5 vs 10 people battles and turn based let’s me see (and MUCH more easily control) every action in the battle. I love getting to fully control every party member I have with absolutely zero AI. 

[Jill7894]

1 hour ago, Frog Man said:

So I disagree on your assumption why turn-based is more popular. I was RTWP all the way for decades (Baldurs fate, ice wind dale, pillars1), but recently I’ve tried turn based and I can’t go back. I feel like so many little actions can get lost in like 5 vs 10 people battles and turn based let’s me see (and MUCH more easily control) every action in the battle. I love getting to fully control every party member I have with absolutely zero AI. 

Yeah, I can do that too essentially with RTwP by slowing combat to its slowest setting or pausing more consistently. I hate having to wait a bunch of turns until I can control my main character, while enemy AI runs away each turn and I have to chase them down spending action points, hit them once, and then wait a couple minutes until I have a chance to strike at them again (for example). It's absurd and feels as though it belongs strictly in the 90s with the amount of time it unnecessarily eats up compared to alternative combat systems. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Jill7894