Mikeymoonshine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 I honestly roll my eyes every time a straight person praises Arcade now. It just means I'm about to hear about how gay characters in other Games are "too much", "steroitypical" or "forced down my throat". Also who is this third companion? Felix? There's an interaction he has with a character on Monarch which implied to me that he is not gay. I haven't finished the game yet though. 2
thelee Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Deadwood said: I am of a like mind Socrates. It annoyed me as well, and took me out of my mood. I am sitting down to play a game. I don't need a game designer to push their political agenda in my face. All those who are happy/OK about it would sing a different tune the next time a different designer pushed agenda that they did not agree with. (would you like some Right-to-life, gun rights or Born-again NPC in your next game?) Like skrelk said, I don't see how "having a non-straight person in a game" is a political agenda and not just a reality of life. Maybe we can consider it social progress that people are "only" complaining about gay companions (or the perception of there being gay companions) instead of complaining that there exist black people (do people remember Diablo 2's black paladin outrage? Pepperidge Farm remembers) By the by, very nearly every action game or aRPG is a pro-gun perspective. Most lefty gamers I know of (myself included) don't care. Also, in my most favorite cRPG ever, Deadfire: Spoiler 1. depending on choices you make in poe1, two companions are religious, both of a particular evangelical type (one more skeptical than the other). both of them even have southern-esque cultural backgrounds--one literally has a southern accent. the born again religiousness is not treated negatively. 2. there is literally an abortion-related quest line and depending on how you do it can make players trying to choose moral outcomes endorse pro-life views or accept that pro-choice views can be akin to an unethical act of eugenics or even quasi-genocidal. I saw literally 0 complaints about it. but keep being a victim about it, sure. Edited November 4, 2019 by thelee 4
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 If there were one gay companion, it would be reasonable and even acceptable to most people. There are quite a few, not subtle at all hints torward various npc and companions sexuality. If the Pavarti questline had any other positive conclusion you could choose that didnt lead to you doing a galaxy wide scavenger hunt to prepare her gay date... at least the option would be there so it wouldnt feel so forced. I have no problems with people being who they are. I do have a problem with agendas being pushed through media. I recently gave up cable entirely because of the overwhelming pandering done through so many shows now. Sure it saved me money, so no complaint there... You are absolutely right in that I am personally from the generation that looked at interracial marriage and said.. so what, its no big deal... leave them alone and let them be happy. I would gladly say the same thing for the lgb community if it didnt seem to be a constant surge of demanding attention seeking coming from all forms of media. I do my best to not pass on my bias, so hopefully they can be more accepting of this weirdness I just cant support... but while I am doing that... it would be wonderful if I was allowed to enjoy tv shows, games, even books recently.. without an lgbt agenda being pushed. Pushiness breeds intolerance... not acceptance. That is why I asked about a refund from the game creator and publisher and from Gamestop. Agendas should be clearly marked on the package, since you dont get to return games or movies once they are open. Let consumers make an informed decision on what exactly they are buying and see if your product still sells as well as you hope. I keep suggesting that lgb should be added to the esrb, just like other adult content is.
Hurlshort Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Deadwood said: I am of a like mind Socrates. It annoyed me as well, and took me out of my mood. I am sitting down to play a game. I don't need a game designer to push their political agenda in my face. All those who are happy/OK about it would sing a different tune the next time a different designer pushed agenda that they did not agree with. (would you like some Right-to-life, gun rights or Born-again NPC in your next game?) Just let me play me game the way I want. If I wanted 21st century SJW shoved in my face, I would not be playing an escapist game, I'd go to a political forum. Meanwhile there are many who feel like we do, but we are silent. BS like this is what forces people to elect **** we don't even like to office because the alternative is more PC bull. Yes, heaven forbid video games push a pro-gun agenda. Also Obsidian has quite a bit of religious representation in their games. They may change the names, but the tenets tend to be right in line with real world philosophies. Mormonism is heavily represented in Fallout: New Vegas. Pro-life versus pro-choice would probably be a tough one, since life is so cheap in all of these games as a rule of thumb. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a parallel there. In short, these games are incredibly political, and you tend to have a lot of choice in how you follow up on those political strands. If you don't want to hear about someone's relationship status, you can tell them to get lost. 1
Beardedgeek72 Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Deadwood said: I am of a like mind Socrates. It annoyed me as well, and took me out of my mood. I am sitting down to play a game. I don't need a game designer to push their political agenda in my face. All those who are happy/OK about it would sing a different tune the next time a different designer pushed agenda that they did not agree with. (would you like some Right-to-life, gun rights or Born-again NPC in your next game?) Just let me play me game the way I want. If I wanted 21st century SJW shoved in my face, I would not be playing an escapist game, I'd go to a political forum. Meanwhile there are many who feel like we do, but we are silent. BS like this is what forces people to elect **** we don't even like to office because the alternative is more PC bull. If you don't like 21st century values... why are you consuming 21st century media? Shouldn't you be out there fighting the good fight against Women's right to vote or something? Also, people who unironically use "SJW" as an insult really reveal more about themselves than the people they try to insult. 1
Mikeymoonshine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 Personally I think in their next game they should make all the companions lgbt+, the ship should double up as a gay bar and every character of the same sex as your character should aggressively hit on you. Make it happen Obsidian. 2 1
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 As long as that is clearly marked on the package, this would actually be a hilarious idea.
Mikeymoonshine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: As long as that is clearly marked on the package, this would actually be a hilarious idea. Joking aside your discomfort towards this is a thing you can get over. I'm not going to tell you what to do but RPGs tend to contain some lgbt+ representation these days. It's a good genre for exploring stuff like sexuality and gender. I feel like you'd be happier if you just got over it rather than not participating in anything that has too much gay in it. Edited November 4, 2019 by Mikeymoonshine 2
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 I will stick to avoiding being involved. Let everyone be who they want, with whom they want but dont try to trick others into being involved. That was my peoblem with this game... it was more focused on pushing an agenda vs telling a good story. Thats fine, and I am sure many enjoyed it but it wasnt for me and I just wish the gay themes had been mentioned in any of the promotional materials. It wasnt because marketing knew it would cost sales.
Ommamar Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 Socrates40299 I am curious how much information you researched about the game before you bought it? If you purchased on release I can get your position, although since I didn't follow the game much at all information might of been available regarding this topic. What it seems you are asking is for even more censorship to protect you from something that you find offensive with no onerous on your self to look into what you purchase. I wrote a lengthy post for how I thought the development and hints of how npc's thought and acted added to an understanding of how it would be to live within the confines of how the universe of TOW would be, which lend me to the under standing of how they might act. Interestingly this has apparently be censored by the moderators probably because they don't want this subject that so many are speaking about to be spoken about. Falls into the area of whatever as it is their forum but shows to me how obsidian is willing to put a "controversial" subject into the game but hesitant to have it discussed. As for opting out I saw several ways the easiest is just not follow the quest to its conclusion, there was also dialogue options while in the bar such as don't ask me I suck or relationships or I am just here to drink.
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 I dont want them to change anything, except to maybe give a bit of a heads up that the end product is pushing a particular agenda. I got the capitalist parody from the trailers and forums before I bought the game but I had seen no threads at all on the huge lgbt bias built in to the game. Now that the game has been out a few days, you can find whole web pages dedicated to celebrating the lgbt inclusivness.
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 As to not finishing the quest line for pavarti... you are left feeling like you were being a bad guy making a cruel choice... it wasnt even an indifferent option.
Mikeymoonshine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: I will stick to avoiding being involved. Let everyone be who they want, with whom they want but dont try to trick others into being involved. That was my peoblem with this game... it was more focused on pushing an agenda vs telling a good story. Thats fine, and I am sure many enjoyed it but it wasnt for me and I just wish the gay themes had been mentioned in any of the promotional materials. It wasnt because marketing knew it would cost sales. Bioware released character profiles for the companions in Dragon age Inquisition before release, one of them mentioned that one of the companions was gay. There was a big straight people backlash over that but the game was still apparently their best launch or something and by all accounts did very well. Despite the gays and despite having many flaws. Having lgbt+ characters in a game is not inherently "pushing an agenda". Even when it is there's nothing wrong with that, representation helps straight people get over their hangups. I don't think Obsidian were pushing an agenda and I don't think they didn't mention Parvati's orientation because they were worried about losing sales. I think they just thought the story they wrote would be cute. Edited November 4, 2019 by Mikeymoonshine 1
Mikeymoonshine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: As to not finishing the quest line for pavarti... you are left feeling like you were being a bad guy making a cruel choice... it wasnt even an indifferent option. Well you know, it is kind of cruel to not be supportive towards a friend's love life because you don't accept their sexuality. Are you against the game being realistic in that regard? 3
Theonlygarby Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: I dont want them to change anything, except to maybe give a bit of a heads up that the end product is pushing a particular agenda. I got the capitalist parody from the trailers and forums before I bought the game but I had seen no threads at all on the huge lgbt bias built in to the game. Now that the game has been out a few days, you can find whole web pages dedicated to celebrating the lgbt inclusivness. I mean it does have a "mature" rating. So that should have warned you it might be too much for you. Joking aside, this game doesn't push an agenda. Where are these sites? Vice had an article saying they "missed an opportunity" to delve deeper into LGBTQ issues. So if it's offending snowflakes on both sides... I'd say that's a good sign. Women aren't oppressed(anymore than anyone else) in this game. There is no homophobia(in the game) and the world is still ****ed up. So not sure where you are getting this agenda thing from. If anything the game says that even without prejudice people will be oppressed.
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 You know.... this is actually a really good point. I hadnt thought of it that way. If Pavartis was the only gay storyline... I dont think I would have read so much into all the other references. I was a ****ty friend to Pavarti.
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 I was actually semi ok with Pavartis orientation and storyline.. until Ellie doubled up on the lgbt stuff... then when you get told by the company guy that he had a special relationship with the original Capt that you replaced... it was basically three strikes and I was out. The company guy even had every stereotype going, even the lisp.
Theonlygarby Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: I was actually semi ok with Pavartis orientation and storyline.. until Ellie doubled up on the lgbt stuff... then when you get told by the company guy that he had a special relationship with the original Capt that you replaced... it was basically three strikes and I was out. The company guy even had every stereotype going, even the lisp. I'm pretty sure when You ask him he says "it's not like that". When did Ellie do something gay?
ComradeYellow Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 No refunds, only Gulag for disbelievers. On a less serious note, why are some "people" so riled up about Pavartis questline? I mean sure her teenage angst over a lover was a bit silly for someone who pulverizes people with a massive hammer as a special attack but it was tedium at worst!
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 Im not sure if answering that would be considered a spoiler... its part of her questline too though.
Theonlygarby Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Socrates40299 said: Im not sure if answering that would be considered a spoiler... its part of her questline too though. True... I finished her quest though... I don't remember anything about her being gay though.
Wormerine Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Socrates40299 said: I have no problems with people being who they are. I do have a problem with agendas being pushed through media. I recently gave up cable entirely because of the overwhelming pandering done through so many shows now. I think this is quite naive. Agendas are always pushed through media, be it intentionally or not. To some extend that is what media is for be it writing, films, music. Some of it is done better, some of it is done worst. You just strongly feel about this particular issue and respond negatively to it. 1
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 I just want to say, how much I appreciate how everyone is being so polite and eloquent on a topic very personal to so many. Thank you all for being such adults.
Socrates40299 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Posted November 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Wormerine said: I think this is quite naive. Agendas are always pushed through media, be it intentionally or not. To some extend that is what media is for be it writing, films, music. Some of it is done better, some of it is done worst. You just strongly feel about this particular issue and respond negatively to it. Most of the time... you have a heads up on the bias or agenda being pushed. Not once in all the marketing material were gay themes brought up or showcased. Like I said, they shouldnt change a thing... other than to give a bit of a heads up so consumers can make an informed purchase.
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