[CLASS BUILD] Hand Of Doom - Forbidden Fist/Steel Garrote

[Powerotti]

First of all - roleplay music background

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEjPohtfhcc

 

Hand of Doom

Difficulty: PotD v. 5.0 with Community Patch (Forbidden Fist ability changed to weapon attack)

Solo: totally viable, but untested. I played some tougher fights with team wandering somewhere, especially Eder for pet slot (Nalvi)

Class: Forbidden Fist/Steel Garrote

Race: Nature Godlike for better fisting with Wellspring of Life

Background: Ixamitl Plains - Laborer

 

Stats:

Might - 18 (+ 2 berath blessing, 1 gift from the machine, 1 chameleon's touch, 2 alchemic brawn, 1 rabyuna's boon, 5 tunderous blows = 30) damage and healing bonus

Constitution - 3 (+ 2 berath blessing, 2 alchemic brawn = 7) dumped because of incredible self healing

Dexterity - 15~18 (+ 2 berath blessing, 2 footprints of ahu taka, 1 chameleon's touch, 2 alchemic guile, 1 rabyuna's boon, 1 godlike = 24~27)

Perception - 15~18 (+ 2 berath blessing, 2 alchemic guile = 19~22)

Intellect - 3 (+ 2 berath blessing, 2 alchemic wits, 1 godlike, 10 turning wheel = 18) dump base int, because of turning wheel. Needs max wounds for fire lash, and you don't want extend forbidden curse to much

Resolve - 18 (+ 2 berath blessing, 2 alchemic wits, 2 token of faith, 2 rabyuna's boon, 1 ixamitl plains, 1 cauldron brew = 28) test it at different game stages, to keep forbidden curse effect below 3sec, with max bonus from turning wheel. Then it ticks only once, and when curse fades heals you more, than injures. You can also use shorewalker sandals, cabin boy instead of rabyuna, ring of the solitary wanderer, harmony ring, or sacrifice palegina in PoE 1.

 

Equipment:

Head: godlike head for wellspring of life. (Add potion of ascencion to reach 10 power level, and your fists will be post-mythic utensils of destruction with +80% damage, +22 accuracy and 13 penetration)

Back: The Giftbearer's Cloth

Neck: Token of Faith for +2 resolve or Bone Setter's Torc for additional healing, or Strand of Favour (remember to adjust equipment to forbidden curse lasts below 3sec)

Armor: first Devil of Caroc Beastplate or Gipon Prudensco, then Contender's Armour (with enough athletics, that you use as emergency healing, nalvi pet and abraham pet, this armor is faster than naked and has nice armor rating), or Kahako Nihi (the tankiest, but also the slowest. Looks cool and has great enchantments that reduce enemy armor and penetration, and the most important, gives you 10% piercing lash to forbidden fist ability)

Waist: Blunting Belt/Upright Captain if using pull of eora/ Ngati Girdle/Makers Own Power (for might and crush AR. Reforge the Flesh is bad for you, because of paralyze. Your healing is reduced when deal no damage. Use up its charge before fight)

Hands: Hylea's Talons (about 7 self damage, healed for 300% more immediately when effect wears of, and give you wound, and 5% slash lash for weapon attacks)

Rings: Chameleon's Touch and Ring of Prosperity's Fortune (or ring of the solitary wanderer, harmony ring but remember to adjust equipment to forbidden curse duration below 3sec)

Boots: Footprints of Ahu Taka/Shorewalker Sandals

Pet: abraham (and nalvi on eder if possible)

Weapon set 1:

Magran's Favour with modal on (when using Forbidden fist ability the initial attack is made with your fist irrespectively of weapon in active slot, but heartbeat drumming and flurry strikes use magrans favour with modal, which apply bleeding cuts with no recovery penalty, an it's always main hand, without damage reduction even if you dual wielding)

Tuotillo's Palm with modal on (you doesn't need to use auto attacks often, so no dps decrease due to tuotillo's low base dmg or modal recovery, but its enchants adds 5 accuracy to forbidden fist ability, and 1 deflection for every wound. You want to have 10 wounds all the time for turning wheel lash. Deflection is, at this time, high enough to enemies often miss you, so FF ability gets +15 accuracy from modal)

Weapon set 2:

Kapana Taga and Tuotillo when flanked (swaping weapon when flanked should give you wound, becouse you get rid of negative effect, but i honestly doesn't know if it works)

 

Food - Mohora Wraps

Drugs - Mouth Char

Quick slots - Potion of Ascension

 

Abilities:

Steel Garrote and Forbidden Fist passive talents - The harder you hit, the more you heal. With post-mythic forbiden fist you hit like a truck, heal from draining, then after 2,9 sec curse disappears and heal you more! (possible only with Community patch, becouse original FF is not a weapon attack)

Eternal Devotion - 10% burning lash for FF

Exalted Endurance - 8 hp per 3 sec

Deep Faith, Inspired Defences, Weapon and Shield style, Practiced Healer, Stoic Steel - for defence

Virtuous Triumph - resorce regen

Sworn Rival - additional damage from it is supressed by FF, but it works on SF/HBD

Clarity of Agony - reduce curse duration (its upgrade doesn't stack with turning wheel)

Swift Flurry, Heartbeat Drumming - tons of instant bleeding cuts, and additional healing from Steel Garrote's passive talent (possible only with Community patch, becouse original FF is not a weapon attack)

Tunderous Blows - +5 might and +2 pen

Turning Wheel - +20% burning lash with 10 wounds (then also 10 deflection from tuotillo's palm)

Crucible of Suferring - bonus to all defences exept deflection. Always active due to forrbiden curse fading time after time

Soul Mirror - i became convinced to this talent when it reflect concelhaut beam spell against him

Mortification of the Soul - gaining wounds by FF may be slow when nobody can afflict you, and the damage of mortification is almost instatntly covered by self healing. Nice to have

Instruments od Pain - for stoic steel preservation if no enemies in mele range

Rest is up to you.

 

This build is realy indestructible machine, that can also deal huge damage. It doesn't uses any exploit or cheats, but many, many, many little synergies, which stacked together makes it smash enemies with 35(or 45% with kahako nihi) lash, heal itself for tremendous amounts, and regen resources. Here's console created character for tests vs some famphyrs (no specific tactic and it runs on AI )

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlNDayZrJPgacTqK5cCqQGQ2PLQ-XWb/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Powerotti

[srulz]

Great build! Some questions if you don't mind:

1. Doesn't Blade Cascade from Scordeo's scale with Int as well? So why do you dump it? Due to lack of stats in general?

2. Why don't you just enable Instruments of Pain all the time? Time saved not running up to enemies = time dealing damage, and you don't really have stuff like Mob Stance etc to limit you to melee.

3. Do the 2 -% recovery pets' stack? Sure the status shows so, but according to some earlier posts on it, the answer seems to be no.

4. Exalted Focus not worth the +acc? Or just the healing from Endurance too good?

5. Helm of the White Void not worth it over the +1 PL? You should be able to get +10 acc with FF & SS.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

I appreciate the work put into this. I played around with a Votary build trying to combine the benefits of RES stacking for FF ability and Sacred Immolation. It comes so late for the build, but it's worth mentioning that RES and Clarity of Agony both reduce the self-dmg duration of SI, and that when it expires you gain a wound and the heal from FF. In addition, once the self-dmg has stopped, you can cast a second SI, effectively stacking the effects. I like the singleminded focus of this build (which I imagine plays similar to a Soulblade Cipher), but nice to have a little extra DMG at max level and another tool in the tool belt. 

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, srulz said:

1. Doesn't Blade Cascade from Scordeo's scale with Int as well? So why do you dump it? Due to lack of stats in general?

2. Why don't you just enable Instruments of Pain all the time? Time saved not running up to enemies = time dealing damage, and you don't really have stuff like Mob Stance etc to limit you to melee.

3. Do the 2 -% recovery pets' stack? Sure the status shows so, but according to some earlier posts on it, the answer seems to be no.

4. Exalted Focus not worth the +acc? Or just the healing from Endurance too good?

5. Helm of the White Void not worth it over the +1 PL? You should be able to get +10 acc with FF & SS.

I'm not the author, but maybe I can still answer your questions:

1) Why dumped INT: it's in the build description. To shorten the Forbidden Fist Curse. He doesn't use Scordeo's Egde.

2) why would you waste wounds for an ability as long as there are enemies' in normal melee range? With dumped INT it would also last not very long if you cast it right at the start of battle (no bonus from Turning Wheel yet). So - better to only cast it when you really need it and when you are around 10 wounds. By the way: Instruments of Pain gives your weapons *6 range. They are still melee weapons. So every melee ability like Cleaving Stance's Full Attack and also Swift Flurry should still work with the higher ranges (unless there is a hard range cap in the code).

3) if you check your attack speed/recovery speed the usual way and both effects are listed then they stack.

4) Exalted Endurance also gives you +1 AR on top of the healing. Since he's "abusing" the small shield modal and thus has +15 ACC often enough (maybe it doesn't stack with Zealous Focus ACC bonus) I think the bonus AR and healing is better. Especially if you only have 3 CON.

5) He needs the +1 PL to scale his fists (including Forbidden Fist) to post-mythic quality. Fists scale with Power Level. And of course it gives the usual benefits for active dmg abilities like 5% multiplicative dmg, more PEN and ACC. Thus, a Monk profits twofold from power levels. Fists scale and abilities scale. Better than +10 ACC for affliction attacks, especially if you can just nudge your power level over the edge for a last fist scaling that you couldn't get otherwise.

 

My question would be: no Enduring Dance?

[srulz]

42 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

 

1. Wow, I don't know how did I miss that he doesn't use Scordeo at all. Since he's coming off the other thread on Scordeo & Swift Flurry etc, my brain automatically assume it's the same here. It's interesting to note that FF is treated as positive effect though, similar to Disoriented by Powder Burns.

2. Instruments mean he gets range, all for the measly investment of 4 Wounds, which as a non-Helwalker means he only loses 8% fire lash. It also has a really long base duration (20 s, if this wiki doesn't lie). Then 1 wound can be immediately recouped by Enduring Dance, and further Wounds can be generated very safely with bonus accuracy as well. Also range means higher dps in general compared to melee'rs due to less time spent running & able to focus down enemy mobs without getting struck while supported by multiple melee allies.

3. Now the next question is, does the UI lie or not?

4. I don't think you can ever have enough Accuracy, but if it doesn't stack then that makes sense.

5. Makes sense, but TBH I would rather boost PL through food (eg. Skewers) rather than permanently disabling an equipment slot and losing another racial bonus.

Thanks for the initiative to answer BTW, much appreciated.

[Powerotti]

Everything is like Boeroer said. 

2. Fight on the video is just fun with using AI script. It's obviously imperfect, and can't do some things (like using Sworn Rival properly).

3. What do you mean? There os nothing you can't do without using console. Actually i forgot aply cauldron brew, do even 1 res less. 

4. E.Endurance is better for healing and armor. 

5. Food doesn't stack with ascension potion, and you need 10 pl for scaling. 7base, 2potion, 1head. 

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

My question would be: no Enduring Dance?

There is still some unused talent points. I didn't chose it becouse you actually want to get some hits (or greazes), so negative effect can produce wounds. Enduring dance fades quickly when you're surrounded by melee range enemies, and when they're gone there's no need to use it. The fight is basically over

[Boeroer]

Yes, but Enduring Dance is paid by mortification, has no fixed duration and gives you +1 wound and +3 ACC immediately (not after 3 secs). Which is all nice to have right at the start of the battle. I think it's always worth taking even if you get hit a lot in general. But that's only my personal preference.

 

[Boeroer]

35 minutes ago, srulz said:

2. Instruments mean he gets range, all for the measly investment of 4 Wounds, which as a non-Helwalker means he only loses 8% fire lash. It also has a really long base duration (20 s, if this wiki doesn't lie). Then 1 wound can be immediately recouped by Enduring Dance, and further Wounds can be generated very safely with bonus accuracy as well. Also range means higher dps in general compared to melee'rs due to less time spent running & able to focus down enemy mobs without getting struck while supported by multiple melee allies.

3. Now the next question is, does the UI lie or not?

4. I don't think you can ever have enough Accuracy, but if it doesn't stack then that makes sense.

5. Makes sense, but TBH I would rather boost PL through food (eg. Skewers) rather than permanently disabling an equipment slot and losing another racial bonus.

2) 4 wounds is not measly for a Forbidden Fist. Keep in mind that a FF only gets wounds from expiring afflictions (and other harmful effects). Combine that with 3 INT and suddenly it's a waste. Why would you want to spend 4 wounds, suffer -4 INT and -8% lash if you don't need the longer range? I think I personally wouldn't even take the Long Pain and Instruments of Pain but use Flagellanth's Path to close gaps to enemies (shouldn't break Stoic Steel). Costs no wounds.

3) no, it doesn't. Speed and recovery bonuses don't stack additively though but multiplicatively. So 20% and 20% are not 40%. But rather 36%. And so on. The more you add the less the absolute impact of each of these. That's what makes high value speed buffs like Streetfighter's so valuable.

4) Of course you can have too much ACC. As soon as you can crit with a 1-roll.

5) won't stack

[Powerotti]

With abilities that i wrote, there is still 3 points to spend. ! on PL6 and 2 on PL5. You can take Endurig Dance, and Inspiring Triumph (when playing with team), or Flagellant Path, or Lay on Hands. Actually there is still one weapon set, so you can use Scordeo's Edge, to get Adaptive buff (20acc with 10stacks) from SF/HBD procs if lack of accuracy. With 10 int from Turning Wheel it should last long enough, to switch back to Magran's Favour for a while.

As for spending wounds on Instruments of Pain - it's not really painfull to you, becouse you can use 2xMortification. (with full buffs it's 0.4cast + 1.3recovery each, so 3.4sec together)

Edited June 27, 2019 by Powerotti

[Boeroer]

I'm curious about the small shield modal in combination with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming: does the bonus accuracy apply to all attacks?

[Powerotti]

No, only initial attack. Every next roll, as separate attack doesn't counts. Thats why i assume Concelhaut Draining Touch won't work with Swift Flurry in this topic.

[srulz]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

By the way: Instruments of Pain gives your weapons *6 range. They are still melee weapons. So every melee ability like Cleaving Stance's Full Attack and also Swift Flurry should still work with the higher ranges (unless there is a hard range cap in the code).

BTW, I just double confirmed just in case, and no, Mob Stance doesn't care about your weapon's reach - it only triggers on foes in melee range even with Instruments of Pain.

[Boeroer]

Ok, thanks. Then it has a hard range cap (no matter the weapon reach). Maybe to prevent reach weapons to be OP with the original Cleaving Stance (which did a Full Attack to ALL enemies in range). It worked like that on release and was too powerful (obviously).

[brasilgringo]

First of all, thanks for the detailed description and video.  Super cool.  So great to finally see some new interesting builds. 

I remember a lot of testing with FF when it came out, and the self-healing was pretty underwhelming, so this looks like a potential nice change. 

Am I wrong, or is the build largely based around auto-attacks with some minor usage of Sworn Rival?  That is, a lot of the active offensive attack Monk abilities (Stunning Surge, etc.) and Paladin abilities (Flames of Devotion, Beacon) aren't being used?   Maybe that was just the AI in the video?  Doing a whole solo PoTD run auto-attacking things to death seems like it might get boring after a while. 

Have you tested this on PoTD in the cave with the Lich?  I actually think it's slightly harder than the Fampyr Cave, as is Splintered Reef entrance.  What about late-game stuff like the Overseers or Vithrak Lair in last DLC?  Or SSS?  Or any megabosses?

Again, cool stuff and thanks for posting.

[Powerotti]

The fight on video is basically totally played by AI. Auto attacks are result of reduced recovery bonus stack. The FF ability can be used only when not afflicted by forbiden curse (so every 2,8sec) and AI fills the space with other activities. Silly usage of Sworn Rival is also fault of the AI, that can't be improved. It cast SR on everyone, and block resouces, or cast it in time intervals. If AI could cast it only when previously afflicted enemy is killed, it woud be optimal solution.

Flames of devotion is used only for 10% lash, every 20something seconds. FF deals more damage anyway.

I tried Doru, but it's not possible to kill him solo in any resonable time period. Too low damage, too low acc for weakening him with his fortitude, and he heals himself. But with some team assist you can easily facetank him forever. Every "normal" fight i've tried is doable solo, but sometimes i had to use my own brain and meange some things manually, not just turn AI on and watch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vLa40wnhebMr0EgnhtPkeZaq45YAixzI/view?usp=sharing

As for vithracks fight, you have to kill first luminaire as fast as possible, then use instruments of pain or flagellant's path and FF (interupts on hit), when he starts summoning weapons, to prevent it. Then kill him too. Rest of the fight is like walk in the park. If they'll be able to summon weapons you are screwed.

 

 

[Waski]

@Powerotti anything x/monk can kill  doru with essence interruptor. You need effigy husk(preventing healing), laughingstock cap (- 10 def), revku cape, cpt upright belt (immu push/pull) and all ranged acc gear you can get. Maybe Grog for a pet too. Enduring dance is enough to spam dichotomus soul and they will keep him busy and debuff him just by presence(they have same items as you).  But it's an hour taken out of life

[Tfactor]

@Powerotti any chance you could share your ai file? I see you scroll through it quickly on the video, but imcomplete, fast and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get half of the conditionals I see you have in your ai script.

 

If Powerotti isn't around currently, if anyone else eperienced with ai scripts could lend a hand that would be awesome. I did find the extended ai script mod on nexus so I'm a step closer

Edited October 10, 2019 by Tfactor

[Powerotti]

I'm using AI mod from Nexus. I'll post script as soon as i get access to my computer. 

I remember that biggest problem with AI is that you have to turn it off to drink potion. It is visible in the video from lich cave, but i didn't knew that back then .

AI is also too dumb to use sworn rival and to pick targets to kill in efficent order. Everything that can't be stopped by AR and defensive support (chanters, priests and other enemies that aim for strenghten their alies) should die first, and let live offensive support or debuffers (ciphers, wizard, creatures that CC or even rogues with their deep wounds, if they can't penetrate) as long as you can.

[Powerotti]

Paste it in c:/user/saved games/pillars of eternity II/customaibehaviors

There is no garrote, sworn rival and flagellant path, because ai can't use it right

Hand of Doom (Monk Paladin) (03e2dbc5-2782-417d-90ba-cdcc3e91a513).customai

[Zera Strife]

I am approaching 600 hours in this game but still have not finished it. I've tried many builds : Lore Master, Thaum, Inquisitor (honestly love this build), Geomancer, and a few others but this build…...this build right here is finally going to allow me to beat the game on POTD Solo. I waltzed into the Fampyr cave last night to get my Giftbearers cloth and utterly tanked and beat their asses to a pulp. I don't even perform Naval combat anymore, I simply board and beat them down.....I am the Captain now! Face tanked the dragon in the Watershapers guild hall (did it at 19 I think, may have been 20 so I might have been over leveled for this). Powerotti, thank you for sharing this. 

Completely unrelated but I really hope this amazing community does all the amazing things here for BG3 :-)

[Lunateric]

Gotta say I am loving this build, it's very self sufficient. With enough heal stacking and doing a solo run you can try Slayer's Claw offhand, upgrades Thunderous Blows and also gets a raw leash when bound to Paladin.

[Boeroer]

Isn't the raw lash from the fighter branch (and only when he's alone)?

Paladins get hostile effects suspension on kill from Slayer's Claw afaik. But for a Forbidden Fist that might actually be even better? I mean if suspension of hostile effects gives you wounds (does it?).

[AeonsLegend]

4 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Isn't the raw lash from the fighter branch (and only when he's alone)?

Paladins get hostile effects suspension on kill from Slayer's Claw afaik. But for a Forbidden Fist that might actually be even better? I mean if suspension of hostile effects gives you wounds (does it?).

I assume it doesn't. Suspending an effect doesn't "end" it. Otherwise you would get wounds twice from a single effect. Which would be cool, but also not right imo.

[Boeroer]

I just tested it and suppression via Slayer's Claw doesn't give wounds.

[Lunateric]

Whoops, I must have misread then. I don't think many weapons outside Chain and Ball synergize well with the build then. And I'm not keen to think 15% extra damage is game changing (besides what OP is already using).

 

Was initially messing with a monk/priest death godlike variation because it's really easy to control triggering near death with fist curses, but depending on Barring Death's Door always has me scared if Arcane Dampener is used by someone 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Lunateric