[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[NotDumbEnough]

I have never seen enemies using Shadowstep. Usually they use Shadowing Beyond and goof around in invisibility.

[thelee]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I have never seen enemies using Shadowstep. Usually they use Shadowing Beyond and goof around in invisibility.

They definitely do. It's not common, but it exists and it's annoying, precisely because there's not much you can do to stop it (other than an extremey well-timed interrupt, since it has a narrow window), and the action economy is rougher for the player compared to generally larger AI armies.

[NotDumbEnough]

Perhaps a change specific to BPM, but I notice that Fire Godlike's retaliation benefits from One Stands Alone's damage bonus.

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Perhaps a change specific to BPM, but I notice that Fire Godlike's retaliation benefits from One Stands Alone's damage bonus.

Well it says Melee, not Melee Weapons

[NotDumbEnough]

If you use Leap in the Bathhouse and jump into the water, you can get a free bath. Take that, Ganor.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

If you use Leap in the Bathhouse and jump into the water, you can get a free bath. Take that, Ganor.

Since there are at least 2 pairs of bounding boots with 2 charges each, it's relatively easy to get a free bath to your whole party every day ^^

[Boeroer]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:12 AM, Elric Galad said:

Since there are at least 2 pairs of bounding boots with 2 charges each, it's relatively easy to get a free bath to your whole party every day ^^

Also works with only one pair if you cancel the jump mid-air (as soon as the circle appears at the target location - in this case in the water). You will still land in the water and will still have 2/rest uses left. Then give the boots to another party member and do the same.

With the same trick you can sneak to/reach places with the whole party which otherwise would be impossible to do. 

[Elric Galad]

Confouding Blind deflection malus is actually a sub effect of the blind condition.

This means contrary to other Affliction + other effect attacks, it doesn't apply the deflection debuff vs PER resistant or Immune foes.

EDIT : note that it is technically said in the description...

 

Of course, I will change this for BPM  (too annoying compared to alternative Gouging strike)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Testlum]

The same limitation is applied for Garrote from the Steel Garrote as well, for the Raw damage and Prone being implemented as a subeffect of Paralysis. 

That said, I think it makes sense in the context of Confounding Blind and was probably intentionally coded this way. 

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Testlum said:

The same limitation is applied for Garrote from the Steel Garrote as well, for the Raw damage and Prone being implemented as a subeffect of Paralysis. 

The difference is that for Steel Garrote, you probably never want to spend 2 Zeals on it if you don't get the paralysis effect, and the prone would seem to come out of nowhere.

Meanwhile Disoriented + Deflection debuff is steel good enough for 2 Guiles.

Also from a balance standpoint, Confounding Blind comes as an alternative to the very very handy Gouging Strike. So if it doesn't even work vs all foes, it would be a very very mediocre alternative.

2 hours ago, Testlum said:

That said, I think it makes sense in the context of Confounding Blind and was probably intentionally coded this way. 

As I said, it's literally said in the description, so you're right about it being probably intentional.

[Constentin Lévine]

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Also from a balance standpoint, Confounding Blind comes as an alternative to the very very handy Gouging Strike. So if it doesn't even work vs all foes, it would be a very very mediocre alternative.

Confounding Blind is -3 deflections per hit vs deflection with no stacking limit. With high intellect, or by refreshing the effect with another Confounding Blind by cycle, or with Enfeebled or Frostfall tactic, so with management, the ability is superior to Gouging Strike I think (personally). Confounding Blind can mean 100% miss-to-crit vs deflection with some micro (against no per-immune).

[Elric Galad]

8 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Confounding Blind is -3 deflections per hit vs deflection with no stacking limit. With high intellect, or by refreshing the effect with another Confounding Blind by cycle, or with Enfeebled or Frostfall tactic, so with management, the ability is superior to Gouging Strike I think (personally). Confounding Blind can mean 100% miss-to-crit vs deflection with some micro (against no per-immune).

It has a stacking limit (-32 Def with CP, -33 without it)

Compared with Divine Mark -25 without the need to Hit several time.

 

For constitency of rules, I've also decided that the Raw damages from Garrote should not be conditioned by the Paralysis (the prone part yes, would feel weird without).

Edited March 29, 2022 by Elric Galad

[NotDumbEnough]

Enemy monks are using normal fists (i.e. 5-8 damage) and applying Transcendent Suffering bonuses to that instead of actual monk fists. Noticed this in both main game and Beast of Winter. Checked with all my mods on and off.

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Enemy monks are using normal fists (i.e. 5-8 damage) and applying Transcendent Suffering bonuses to that instead of actual monk fists. Noticed this in both main game and Beast of Winter. Checked with all my mods on and off.

Weird, if anyone has an idea about how this happens...

[Noqn]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Weird, if anyone has an idea about how this happens...

https://eternity.obsidian.net/game-data-formats/components#characterclasscomponent

It seems that monk fists should be added if the character's class has ImprovedUnarmedAttack = true

However looking at the source code, the function that utilizes that variable will only conditionally override the existing unarmed weapon.
The scenarios that do override are sadly only player/party-related stuff, such as character creation, leveling up, respeccing, adding a companion to the party, the AddAbility/RemoveAbility scripts and a few more.

So for all non-party characters they'll never get their base fists replaced even if they fulfilled the monk fist criteria.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Noqn

[thelee]

10 hours ago, Noqn said:

https://eternity.obsidian.net/game-data-formats/components#characterclasscomponent

It seems that monk fists should be added if the character's class has ImprovedUnarmedAttack = true

However looking at the source code, the function that utilizes that variable will only conditionally override the existing unarmed weapon.
The scenarios that do override are sadly only player/party-related stuff, such as character creation, leveling up, respeccing, adding a companion to the party, the AddAbility/RemoveAbility scripts and a few more.

So for all non-party characters they'll never get their base fists replaced even if they fulfilled the monk fist criteria.

this meshes with an oddity i've noticed - if you pick Xoti as a monk or monk-type (forget which or if both), you have to actually equip/unequip a weapon or do something else before she gets her improved fists.

kinda shows how good the monk class is - even with nerfed fists enemy monks are frequently very annoying.

is there anyway that a script or mod could trigger an event that would get enemies to get improved monk fists?

[NotDumbEnough]

I wonder if it would be possible to give every class monk fists, then check whether they have Transcendent Suffering/Monastic Unarmed Training and take them away if they don't have it. i.e. You would have a reverse bug where all kith NPCs have monk fists, but since fighters/rogues/barbarians/etc. always come with weapons it would be irrelevant.

[Elric Galad]

Other cheap solution : give everyone's unarmed attack the same base stats as monk fists (or something closer, maybe fast weapon damages +1 min damages like monk's 10-13).

So enemy monks won't suffer that much.

Monk class / unarmed would be necessary to get the scaling.

 

It even sort of makes sense balance wise since foes don't have easy access to unique weapons like you do, so fists are comparatively more interesting for them.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Other cheap solution : give everyone's unarmed attack the same base stats as monk fists (or something closer, maybe fast weapon damages +1 min damages like monk's 10-13).

maybe just fast weapon damage. the +1 damage gives it a "special" trait that makes it comparable to an actual weapon (club).  i think there should be a cost to going without weapon.

this would nerf PC monks/unarmed?

[NotDumbEnough]

It sounds more like a buff to basic fists (with no specialization) so that they are on par with basic fast melee weapons.

[thelee]

depends on what elric means by "everyone's unarmed attack."

if it sets monk/monastic unarmed damage down, then it functions as a nerf. maybe a nerf for monks is ok, but monastic unarmed training is a niche talent as it is.

[Elric Galad]

What I meant (plus minor adjusyement) :

Unarmed attack without talent : 10-14 damages, 6 PEN

Unarmed attack with talent : 14-19 damages, 7 PEN + (+2 Acc, +1 PEN, +5% damages)* + scaling

(* the level 0 transcendant suffering/Monastic training bonus)

 

As a consequences, foe fists would be : 10-14 damages, 6 PEN + (+2 Acc, +1 PEN, +5% damages + scaling)

 

So it makes unarmed attacks :
- a bit worse than other fast weapon on early game. Just incitative enough to make them avoided.
- not changed with talent
- about as good as a normal fast weapon for foes :  10-14 damages, 7 PEN +2 Acc, +5% damages (basically a club with -3 Acc and +5% damages), with transcending suffering scaling replacing quality enchant.

 

Of course, if someone has a more direct fix for the bug, I'll take it.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Elric Galad

[dgray62]

I think that boosting unarmed attacks a bit for non-monks is an elegant solution to this problem. It makes sense too. Fists can be dangerous and deadly weapons even when one is not trained in unarmed fighting techniques.

[Testlum]

The simplest way to fix this seems to be to set identical stats for non-Monastic / Monastic / Monk fists, then offload the buffs onto the Monastic Training / Transcendent Suffering abilities, since you can set a base value bonus for damage/accuracy/penetration that applies without accounting for PL. That way both PC and NPC monks will have the same stats for their fists.

[Elric Galad]

It is well known that Fire and Water/Ice negate each other.

What I didn't realize is that you can use a Fire or Water/Ice Keyworded buff to negate a Water/Ice or Fire Keyworded hostile AoE attack that YOU cast.

 

A good example is using Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr to negate a Water/Ice Keyworded attack such as Overwhelming Wave (which is usually super tedious to aim without harming your party).

Shared Flame or Darcozzi LoH shouldn't be too bad at this either.

 

On the other side, I can think about the +10 All defenses buff from Moonwell that is Water Keyworded. The healing is area based and won't be negates. But if you have a "cheapest" Water/Ice Keyworded effect, don't hesitate to share.

A possible application that I haven't checked yet is to use Moonwell to negate Sacred Immolation, Divine Immolation and BPM Sacred Sacrifice self-damages since they are hostile fire keyworded statuses.