Lets Get Political

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

Gotta work with what we have.

 

that is exactly what the folks in oregon is doing.  rules require a quorum. only way for minority to prevent legislation becoming law is quorum busting. is not as if the minority created the quorum rules. they is working with what they got.

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

The Republicans compromise of putting it on the ballot sounds reasonable though. Although I do wonder if they did that because they know it'll fail in the ballot (which I suppose is the point) or if its simply the right thing to do.

edit: Not sure if the US Senate has quorum rules, but if it does, I'm surprised the Democrats haven't tried using it.

Edited June 24, 2019 by smjjames

[Gfted1]

Aye, Im aware that for you and GD, accomplishing absolutely nothing is WAI. 

It annoys me, however at the end of the day, its not my problem.

[Gromnir]

33 minutes ago, smjjames said:

 

edit: Not sure if the US Senate has quorum rules, but if it does, I'm surprised the Democrats haven't tried using it.

there is a reason we referenced senator packwood being hauled in to chambers to establish a quorum.

@gifted and we know how much both you and gd like to indulge in hyperbole. is not as if this is the only bit o' legislation oregon has dealt with in the past couple years, eh? and nobody suggests doing nothing on even this issue. is important issue, but if you gotta strongarm a minority into accepting, then perhaps more debate and negotiation is needed, eh? is so much bad legislation and executive decisions which has been executed over the years. not doing is often the course o' wisdom.  choose not to pass bad legislation is hardly same as accomplishing absolutely nothing.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gfted1]

Nah. Everything must have a limit. "Debate and negotiation" are just todays buzzwords for "stall it for a decade". Sad but true. Imo we need a much more agile government that can actually make decisions and execute their implementations. "Democracy" allows for too many chefs and not enough wait staff.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah. Everything must have a limit. "Debate and negotiation" are just todays buzzwords for "stall it for a decade". Sad but true. 

am genuine not certain if gifted knows what is hyperbole, 'cause, y'know, is sad and not true. debate and negotiation = stall for a decade? *snort* for instance, veteran's choice, legislation for which trump curious takes credit at every opportunity, were championed by john mccain and bernie sanders. took less than a full year to go through legislative process and get president OBAMA's signature. 2013-2014. hyperbole don't make gifted's argument stronger. makes weaker and easier to dismiss.

also, the trains didn't run on time for mussolini. is no political system which negates foundational problems o' human nature. history shows enough examples o' incompetence and graft with every system so as to undercut the notion o' there being an exception to possibility o' inefficiency. 

gifted clear suffers from backup qb syndrome. regardless o' strengths and weakness o' the guy on the bench, gifted thinks the backup looks keen 'cause he is annoyed by the incompetence o' the guy current running the offense. in spite o' the intuitive appeal o' other systems as a more efficient replacement for democracy, history has been at least as unkind to the other options. 

but serious, what is with you guys and the hyperbole?

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Nah. We need a system closer to China's.

[Gfted1]

@injurai: Something along the lines of a capitalist economy but you get five across the eyes when you step out of line. Theres TOO DAMN MANY squealing pigs around here.

[Gromnir]

9 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah. We need a system closer to China's.

why? any yutz can provide solution for E, but einstein showed his work. can come up with dozens o' failed authoritarian oligarchies, so distinguish china... or is simple you is envious o' recent gains by china? ignoring human rights issues, 'cause we know gifted will, there is clear some shortfalls in the chinese system or they wouldn't constant be trying to steal or buy western technologies. forcible bootstrap an agrarian economy into an industrial power might have required an authoritarian system (debatable) but is not same thing to go from industrial to service-based economy.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/business/china-economy-gdp-fourth-quarter.html

now admitted, is any number o' economists who has been predicting china economic doom for years, but situation, very soon, is gonna get very bad.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/asia/china-population-decline-study-intl/index.html

the main factor which has allowed china to compete with the west is the abundance o' cheap labor, but cheap labor is gonna need be found elsewhere, and soon. the authoritarianism which were successful in reducing population has costs, and those costs is only a decade or so away from becoming critical.

so china efforts gets them worse standard o' living than what gifted enjoys, serious limits on basic freedoms he would no doubt miss, and has 'em facing looming disasters no less problematic than US debt crisis and income inequality issues. actual, the income inequality problem is a problem for chinese as well as Americans.

oh, and one should not complete ignore history and geography, 'cause is not as if a relative homogenized society which has developed, in spite o' size o' the country, almost exclusively along two river valleys for thousands o' years knowing nothing but authoritarian rule for much o' that history might benefit different than would an almost uniquely diverse culture spread out across a continent with unique geography and religions and peoples.

so, show your work, eh?

HA! Good fun!

[Gfted1]

Its nothing too complex, I just appreciate those that DO over those that SAY.

[Zoraptor]

Economists have been predicting the end of China's economic miracle for literally decades at this point. It's the old "if [countryname] changes literally nothing they will have [bad thing] happen to them" prediction- it's pretty near worthless because they did and will change something. China knows its workforce will drop, that's why it's going for the higher value stuff over plastic toys and cheap T shirts.

It's also a truism because at some point China will stop growing, economists just have to keep predicting it and at some point they will be correct. But overall, if anything, a comparison between the US debt problem and China's demographic problem is not a favourable one because China is trying to do something to make preparations while the US really isn't.

Wanting to be more like China is a weird position to take though, because their social policies are nothing less than awful.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Its nothing too complex,

now that don't surprise us. sure, the level which they exploit 1/2 or more o' the population don't bother gifted, but they are doing... something. 'course the chinese government lies 'bout what they are doing, so is so hard to tell what has actual been done, but gifted likes do. the chinese did anywhere between 2000 and 10000 in response to tiananmen square. 'course they don't do much 'bout their aids problem and their actua per capita gdp is placing them not in the economic heavyweight category, but rather in the featherweight range. as o' march 2019, world bank has china per cap gdp right behind kazakhstan at #72... which is probable a dozen or so places too high as is based on china's numbers which is so utter cooked as to be useless. to get to 72, all they need do is keep a billion people living in squalor. the chinese economic miracle has been mostly myth for as long as economists has been predicting eventual fail. 

*chuckle*

am personal quite happy with a little less o' china-style do. we weren't born to one o' the privileged families, so in china we likely woulda' got done... hard.

HA! Good Fun!

ps given our age, we got some perspective on the emergence o' a new economic juggernaut appearing every decade or so. during early 80s, everybody were worried 'bout nuclear armageddon and soviets were the bogey man du jour.  we went to russia and eastern europe late 80s. we coulda' lived like a king in moscow for years if we had brought more condoms with us. no kidding. the black market rate for condoms were such that we coulda' got diamonds and cars  (russian cars, so limit your imagination) for a box o' trojans. became clear to us after our visit that fears o' the russians were exaggerated.

once the wall came down, we needed a new monster to frighten us, and we kid you not, for awhile it were japan.

the japanese were so technological advanced and their manufacturing efficiency were so superior, the US were gonna become nothing but a footnote in economic history by the end o' the century.

then came concerns 'bout the emerging eu.

*groan*

china? that per capita gdp puts 'em neck n' neck with mexico, and five places behind russia. 

for some reason, the world, and the US in particular, needs a new economic superpower to threaten the post ww2 status quo with the equal mythological US hegemony being eternal threatened. 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Gromnir
comic reflection

[Gfted1]

That's one of the thing I most loved about my trip to Japan, their society is almost a complete 180 from the US. The social harmony, the to-the-second precision of their public transit, the military like precision of their company function...…..feels good man. But Im a weak Westerner and my pink underbelly would never survive the number of hours they work and commute. Its honestly ridiculous, but I have to admit it gets results.

[Gromnir]

27 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

 Its honestly ridiculous, but I have to admit it gets results.

more myth. japanese manufacturing gets results. all that japanese efficiency is a total charlie fox once you get up off of the plant floor. is maddening for japanese executives. given how many hours they work and the effort they invest, they get so little done. 

https://www.tokyoreview.net/2018/07/japan-productivity-overwork/

"But for all of the hours that Japan (often boastfully) works, it ranks lowest among G7 members in productivity. "

letting yourself get distracted by shiny, eh?

HA! Good Fun!

ps japan is 19th/20th productivity 'mongst the 36 oecd states... and some o' their problems is but a faint glimmer o' what awaits china in the next couple decades. japan is a model for what can go wrong when you got an aging workforce with over importance placed on seniority, and with china population control efforts magnifying their age issues...

aside, japanese omotenashi and the seeming military precision achieved by having five people do the work o' one, is also a major contributing factor o' overall japanese inefficiency. like other oecd members, japan has shifted to a service-based economy, and they has suffered during the transition.

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

apologies for double-post.

you likely don't want to listen to the whole thing.

the name o' the guy with the bow tie is atsushi wallace tashima. born in 1934, he were interred at the poston camp in arizona during ww2. eventual he would join the marines attaining rank of sergeant before his honorable discharge. ucla undergrad and harvard law. 

...

kinda felt like hans gruber for a moment.

anyways, we can't even try and imagine arguing that soap, toothbrushes and conditions conducive for sleep were not anticipated as part o' "safe and sanitary" language from the flores settlement which is controlling what is required o' the US government insofar as immigration detention standards for minors. to do so in front o' a guy who were interred at poston is kinda surreal.

however, before people get too angry at barr and trump, ms. fabian, the lawyer for doj in our clips, argued another flores case three years ago and it were even more disturbing. a woman who were trying to instigate a hunger strike in protest o' conditions at a detainment facility had her child seperated from her and the child placed in solitary confinement. fabian tried to argue such treatment were perfect acceptable under the flores settlement. separate and isolate child were a legit response to insurrection by the mother o' the child. 2015 were obama administration, and while there were not a general policy o' child separations in spite o' trump claims, clearly it did happen in more than a couple instances. 

we will note how the government were kinda in a legal bind on this soap and toothbrush thing... though am not using as an excuse. a judge recent ordered customs and border protection to appoint a monitor who would see to it that facilities where children were being detained were brought into compliance with the flores settlement. judge added specifics for the monitor, requiring children be having access to sleep, soap and toothbrushes.  the thing is, appointment o' a monitor under an existing agreement ain't subject to appeal. so the government were trying to argue that as the judge included specifics needed to meet "safe and sanitary" under the flores settlement, she changed the agreement.

*shrug*

is the kinda legal ack jassery which makes us sympathize with gd's invoking o' the "kill all the lawyers" bit. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

I guess Monty Python would say here, now for something completely different...

 

Help! We're too rich, we need to be taxed more!

American billionaires are arguing for more taxes for the super rich:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48752927

" While the group did not back a particular candidate, it praised a proposal by Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Elizabeth Warren that would lift taxes on those with more than $50m, a measure that would affect the 75,000 wealthiest families. She estimated that it would raise $2.75tn over 10 years. "

 

Numbers are of course all estimates by people with agendas, but even if missing the real figures by a mile, a few trillion dollars could always be used for something other than gathering dusts I guess

Edit: "The letter pointed out that fellow billionaire Warren Buffett has said he is taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. "

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

"The letter pointed out that fellow billionaire Warren Buffett has said he is taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. "

Wouldn't it be better for the secretary to change her tax rate to match Buffett's rather than other way around? 

[213374U]

It might be. But then who's going to pay for those $200M+ drones?

Edited June 25, 2019 by 213374U
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gfted1]

Youre right about many doing the job that only requires few. Japans fatal flaw is that they take too damn long to react to anything and at least three people have to be involved in any decisions. But once they lock in, its like watching a well oiled machine. China....well they've just turned the knob to 11 and are rocking the 996 schedule! Im still waiting for Russias economy to sink into the ocean but I guess I can add China and Japan to my watchlist.  

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Wouldn't it be better for the secretary to change her tax rate to match Buffett's rather than other way around? 

like most executives, buffet pays himself next to nothing in income. capital gains is where government makes money from buffet in the form o' taxes. have the secretary earn $1 for 2019 might not be the solution sharp thinks it is.

ps @gifted the russian economy has been sunk for years, which is why any fluctuation in oil prices causes such distress. one o' your fellow posters helpful submitted a bloomberg chart a few years ago which showed worst performing currencies, with russia the absolute worst for year _______. worse than sub saharan african nations with triple digit inflation fighting wars. in the chart, norway were used as a comparison for russia. both russia and norway is highly dependent on oil exports, but norway currency were nowhere near as devastated by oil surplus. russian collapses happen, but they ain't a manufacturer or service provider-- they export petroleum. their economy can "recover" as long as they got oil, but that isn't a strength. in spite o' fact that russia suffered two oil-related upheavals in one decade, resulting in double digit % increase o' russians living in poverty, russia has made almost no changes to economy and infrastructure. 

regardless, gifted is clear impressed with the shiny. likes busy and inefficient japanese... sees results where japanese themselves lament lack o' results. likes chinese do, resulting in per capita gdp behind kazakhstan and on par with mexico to go along with suppression o' dissent and religious minorities and ignoring o' aids problems and... 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

I betcha it will look like this:

Oh the humanity!

[Gromnir]

27 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I betcha it will look like this:

Oh the humanity!

don't know if it would look like your clip, but am confident that if it did, you would qq and squee yourself in response... though am pretty sure you use squee wrong most o' the time. dunno, am not a teenage girl. in any event, is not as if those so-called victims can't find a couple o' shovels. people should be digging themselves out 'stead o' screaming like a bunch o' idiots. the chinese would have rebuilt already, and added a functioning space elevator as well. sink into the ocean? heck, that is what life jackets are for, right? 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gfted1]

Were gonna need more life jackets. What with just the three countries youre whining about, it looks like the entire Eurasian plate is going to be subducted.

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

Were gonna need more life jackets. What with just the three countries youre whining about, it looks like the entire Eurasian plate is going to be subducted.

and here we thought this all started with gifted whining 'bout a few senators in oregon.  lord knows Gromnir ain't whining 'bout three countries. we has suggested there is less reason to be concerned or impressed by three countries with which gifted seems preoccupied... which is kinda the opposite o' what you suggest.  but heck, am a people person and am gonna keep trying to help gifted reach daylight.  you hang in there and we will eventual make it. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Rock on! Watching you whip yourself into a frenzy and your posts becoming more and more combative and pathetic is all I need.