trying a trickster...

[SweetMagooMagoodle]

I am finishing up my first run as a shifter/druggy monk and enjoying it, but I am ready to try my first rogue, and trickster seems like fun. (playing on veteran, upscale all).

 

a) Since I already tried a multi-class, I am thinking of going singe class trickster as a death godlike.  Given that the illusion spells use guile, I was going to rely on passives and just a few actives… any suggestions about which actives would be best if I only take a few? 

 

b) I am going to go stealth and as a backstabber, but does that make sense for an illusionist?  To sneak and stab and then cast a spell? Or should I forgo the stealth and backstab and just debuff and stab?

 

c) However… I was wondering if it would be even more effective to do a dual illusionist / assassin instead?  For a similar character but using spells from my wizard side to debuff and stab away as an assassin?  Thoughts on that versus a single class trickster...

 

d) Last, I was also considering a trickster/devoted – if I went that route, what weapon is best for a melee backstabber? 

 

e) In terms of weapon style, I was thinking single handed to improve crit chance, but am i giving up too much by not going dual weapon or even two handed for any of these builds? 

 

Thanks for the help!

Edited February 3, 2019 by SweetMagooMagoodle

[Verde]

Single Trickster is best bc of Freezing Rake/Wall of Many Colors + Mask of the White Witch and Eye of Wael. And you still have all the Rogue abilities. I use two Scepters (EoW + Splintered Reef scepter), Modwyr + Duskfall/Griffins Blade, and some combo of Flails or Maces for crush damage.

 

Also I'd recommend multing Eder into a Swashy and creating/using other Rogue multis for those juicy Sneak Attacks.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Verde

[thelee]

I am finishing up my first run as a shifter/druggy monk and enjoying it, but I am ready to try my first rogue, and trickster seems like fun. (playing on veteran, upscale all).

 

a) Since I already tried a multi-class, I am thinking of going singe class trickster as a death godlike.  Given that the illusion spells use guile, I was going to rely on passives and just a few actives… any suggestions about which actives would be best if I only take a few? 

 

b) I am going to go stealth and as a backstabber, but does that make sense for an illusionist?  To sneak and stab and then cast a spell? Or should I forgo the stealth and backstab and just debuff and stab?

 

c) However… I was wondering if it would be even more effective to do a dual illusionist / assassin instead?  For a similar character but using spells from my wizard side to debuff and stab away as an assassin?  Thoughts on that versus a single class trickster...

 

d) Last, I was also considering a trickster/devoted – if I went that route, what weapon is best for a melee backstabber? 

 

e) In terms of weapon style, I was thinking single handed to improve crit chance, but am i giving up too much by not going dual weapon or even two handed for any of these builds? 

 

Thanks for the help!

 

some partial answers:

 

a. no right or wrong answer here, basically depends on what you want to do. I wouldn't pick more than a couple, though, because you'll just have so many other abilities to spend your guile on.

b. ok, scratch the above, there is a wrong answer . i wouldn't recommend this. the most effective way to do that kind of backstabbery is repeat invisibility, and as a trickster your guile is going to be used for other things. if you want a backstabby type an assassin is a better choice.

c. the answer to this question hinges on what do you want to actually do with this class? a trickster doesn't have the spell selection of a wizard/rogue multiclass, but what spells the trickster does have they can spam like no wizard can (e.g. a trickster can cast mirror image up to 11 times in one fight whereas a wizard is forever stuck at 2). like Verde said, a trickster can also cast freezing rake/wall of many color, which a multiclass wizard/rogue cannot, because those are ordinarily AL8 spells and thus inaccessible for a multiclass.

e. single-weapon style is very close to a trap choice, unfortunately. unless you have really terrible accuracy or are specifically metagaming for crits for a specific crit build (i.e. because you have effects that care about crits and aren't just trying to do more damage), i would take any other weapon style over single-weapon style. rogues have even less need for single-weapon style due to Dirty Fighting.

Edited February 4, 2019 by thelee

[djinnxy]

e. I've had lots of luck using dual weapon and weapon with shield both. If you pick up one of the small shields (or the one medium) that can be used as an off hand weapon you can capitalize on the trickster's already outstanding deflection from mirror image. And you don't sacrifice any damage. Riposte works pretty well with this set up in most situations.

 

With that setup you will still out-damage single weapon and still have the deflection. If you have Seeker, Slayer dlc aim for the shield called Best Defense. Until that point you can use Tuotilo's Palm. For the squishier fights you can just use your 2 best weapons. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by djinnxy

[MountainTiger]

Does Tuotilo's Palm scale with Monastic Unarmed Training like it does with Transcendent Suffering? A single class Trickster might have enough spare points to take it.

[SweetMagooMagoodle]

 

I am finishing up my first run as a shifter/druggy monk and enjoying it, but I am ready to try my first rogue, and trickster seems like fun. (playing on veteran, upscale all).

 

a) Since I already tried a multi-class, I am thinking of going singe class trickster as a death godlike.  Given that the illusion spells use guile, I was going to rely on passives and just a few actives… any suggestions about which actives would be best if I only take a few? 

 

b) I am going to go stealth and as a backstabber, but does that make sense for an illusionist?  To sneak and stab and then cast a spell? Or should I forgo the stealth and backstab and just debuff and stab?

 

c) However… I was wondering if it would be even more effective to do a dual illusionist / assassin instead?  For a similar character but using spells from my wizard side to debuff and stab away as an assassin?  Thoughts on that versus a single class trickster...

 

d) Last, I was also considering a trickster/devoted – if I went that route, what weapon is best for a melee backstabber? 

 

e) In terms of weapon style, I was thinking single handed to improve crit chance, but am i giving up too much by not going dual weapon or even two handed for any of these builds? 

 

Thanks for the help!

 

some partial answers:

 

a. no right or wrong answer here, basically depends on what you want to do. I wouldn't pick more than a couple, though, because you'll just have so many other abilities to spend your guile on.

b. ok, scratch the above, there is a wrong answer . i wouldn't recommend this. the most effective way to do that kind of backstabbery is repeat invisibility, and as a trickster your guile is going to be used for other things. if you want a backstabby type an assassin is a better choice.

c. the answer to this question hinges on what do you want to actually do with this class? a trickster doesn't have the spell selection of a wizard/rogue multiclass, but what spells the trickster does have they can spam like no wizard can (e.g. a trickster can cast mirror image up to 11 times in one fight whereas a wizard is forever stuck at 2). like Verde said, a trickster can also cast freezing rake/wall of many color, which a multiclass wizard/rogue cannot, because those are ordinarily AL8 spells and thus inaccessible for a multiclass.

e. single-weapon style is very close to a trap choice, unfortunately. unless you have really terrible accuracy or are specifically metagaming for crits for a specific crit build (i.e. because you have effects that care about crits and aren't just trying to do more damage), i would take any other weapon style over single-weapon style. rogues have even less need for single-weapon style due to Dirty Fighting.

 

Thanks this is very helpful.  I hear you on illusionist not being a backstabber -- just thought if I invested in stealth, i could get a first backstab off, then cast my guile spells, then stab away and maybe take, like those slippers that give you shadow form... sounds like you are suggesting just go debuffer stabber... and you are very convincing o going single class trickster,

 

any thoughts on whether a single class assassin, though, is viable or is that a class that should be dualled with, say, devoted or steel garrote?

[thelee]

any thoughts on whether a single class assassin, though, is viable or is that a class that should be dualled with, say, devoted or steel garrote?

just my thoughts, but neither. pair with like a cipher or wizard or druid or priest. Getting one extra weapon or weapon-based hit with +25 ACC, +PEN, and bonus crit damage is meh (especially on a higher difficulty where there are more enemies with more health), getting that on like a noxious cloud, pillar of holy fire, or plague of insects is something else entirely; even on a cipher charm/dominate is useful just for the bonus accuracy. (that being said i'm sure there are people who have found fun martial-oriented ways to make use of the assassinate bonus.)

Edited February 4, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Single class Assassin pays off once you get Vanishing Strikes.

Because then you'll have 100% Backstabs and lots of Assassinates during the duration of that unbreakable invisibility. Also wear the Stalking Cloak...

Until then playing around invisibility/Backstabs/Assassinate can be fun - but only if you like to grind. You can start an encounter, kill an enemy, go invisible and cancel the encounter, repeat.

Once you get Vanishing Strikes you can really go to town (and don't care that you are a glass cannon).

Edited February 6, 2019 by Boeroer

[Gniel]

I just finished a run on Veteran with a Trickster/Fighter tank. I had four Magran's Fires challenges going, including Wael's challenge which hides most all numbers which prevents me from determining exactly how strong this build is, but suffice to say that I consider it to be one of the best tanks I've ever tried.

 

The idea is to dump resolve and lower deflection in order to make him a juicy target for AI. Compensate with higher constitution, armor, damage mitigation skills, and a good healer at his back. You also make a lot of use of the fighters [get over here] skill to have at least two enemies engaged at once. After you have multiple enemies engaged you cast Rymgrand's Horrifying Vissage (a tier 3 resolve affliction) which terrifies enemies in melee range. They stop attacking you and sometimes even run away procing the warrior's enhanced attack of opportunity.

 

It benefits from rogue's persistent distraction, riposte, and damage enhancing passives. Thus it becomes a tank, disabler, DPS hybrid, which does a great job at the tanking role. I'm thinking about writing a build guide, but only after I test it on PotD and without expert mode or Wael's challenge.

[Haplok]

Why do you need a healer with such a durable character? You also have Unbending.

Although a Priest for Salvation of Time for Unbending is nice, I guess.

[Boeroer]

After you have multiple enemies engaged you cast Rymgrand's Horrifying Vissage (a tier 3 resolve affliction) which terrifies enemies in melee range. They stop attacking you and sometimes even run away procing the warrior's enhanced attack of opportunity.

Maybe you should double-check your observation.

 

A terrified enemy cannot be engaged (engagement cancels as soon as the affliction hits) - so you will not get Disengagment Attacks once they flee. 

 

This got patchetd out during beta phase once Unbroken/Trickster builds popped up which showed how easy it was to proc lots of devastating Disengagement Attacks on terrified/fleeing enemies.

 

Nice in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

 

It also means that casting Repulsive Visage as a tank is only advised if you are in trouble - otherwise you'll break all engagements. And that can mean that once the affliction ends the enemies will chose a different target. It also means that if you build around engagement buffing you (Reckless Brigandine, Mob Stance, Champion's Helm, Kapana Taga, Entonia Signet Ring) you'll immediately lose all those buffs. 

 

I mean if this wasn't patched again...?

Edited February 6, 2019 by Boeroer

[MountainTiger]

Terrified behavior seems to have been changed recently-I've definitely been seeing disengagement attacks from it as well (though the engagement indicators disappear).

[Boeroer]

Haha. If this works again I guess it's not intended. Why patch it out because it's too powerful and then patch it back in without saying anything about it?

 

If the engagement indicators disappear that means engagement is gone. And without engagement no disengagement (usually).

Edited February 6, 2019 by Boeroer

[MountainTiger]

It's quite likely a bug, but I think the balance is better this way. Terrified is the weakest hard CC affliction, it's fine to give it a minor buff.

[thelee]

 

After you have multiple enemies engaged you cast Rymgrand's Horrifying Vissage (a tier 3 resolve affliction) which terrifies enemies in melee range. They stop attacking you and sometimes even run away procing the warrior's enhanced attack of opportunity.

Maybe you should double-check your observation.

 

A terrified enemy cannot be engaged (engagement cancels as soon as the affliction hits) - so you will not get Disengagment Attacks once they flee. 

 

This got patchetd out during beta phase once Unbroken/Trickster builds popped up which showed how easy it was to proc lots of devastating Disengagement Attacks on terrified/fleeing enemies.

 

Nice in theory, but doesn't work in practice.

 

It also means that casting Repulsive Visage as a tank is only advised if you are in trouble - otherwise you'll break all engagements. And that can mean that once the affliction ends the enemies will chose a different target. It also means that if you build around engagement buffing you (Reckless Brigandine, Mob Stance, Champion's Helm, Kapana Taga, Entonia Signet Ring) you'll immediately lose all those buffs. 

 

I mean if this wasn't patched again...?

 

 

 

Terrified behavior seems to have been changed recently-I've definitely been seeing disengagement attacks from it as well (though the engagement indicators disappear).

 

you're both right. it's very inconsistent. in my experience, it's not 100%, but definitely people aren't dropping engagement they way they used to patches ago under hard CC, which is good for tanks, but those aren't translating 1:1 into disengagement attacks.

Edited February 6, 2019 by thelee

[Gniel]

you're both right. it's very inconsistent. in my experience, it's not 100%, but definitely people aren't dropping engagement they way they used to patches ago under hard CC, which is good for tanks, but those aren't translating 1:1 into disengagement attacks.

Yeah, it's not 100%, it might be 30% of the time, but it still does trigger a disengagement on occasion, while always applying one of the strongest disables in the game.

 

How triggering the disengagement might work, the Terrify grazes leaving a very short duration. While coming out of terrify the AI decides to change targets/activity and runs away. The engagement is restablished as soon as the terrify is over and triggers on the moving enemy.

[Boeroer]

That may be the reason.

 

It was pretty fun to scare off enemies and then punishing them with disengagement attacks by the way.