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Only allow 1 "free action" per round, also action economy a bit unbalanced!


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9 replies to this topic

#1
Crumbleton

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I feel this is needed being able to cast 20 buffs at turn 1 is stupidly powerful.

Maybe allow you to spend an action on an additional buff to forego a regular full turn action.

Being able to buff up so freely is pretty strong and should definitely be looked at though.

#2
Wormerine

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Maybe. At the same time, buffing does eat up resources which you can't easily get back - buffs usually don't last too long, and if you use multiple ones you will be out of points to use skills. 

Something to be concerned about though. 



#3
SChin

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Hey everyone!

 

Thanks for the feedback with free actions and buffs in Turn-Based Mode!  If you think of anything else pertaining to this that the devs should know about, please continue to post about it here as I'll be linking this thread to the report as a reference.

 

Thanks again as always :D



#4
GamerSerg

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I have to disagree.  Limiting free actions would seriously destroy many builds.  You have to understand that in Real time with pause mode, those free spells cost .4 second because you are supposed to be able to buff up your character in two seconds and get right into the action.  Otherwise your Battlemage type characters who depend on those buffs would spend half the battle just casting buffs and never get into the action.  What fun is that?

 

Being able to "buff up freely" is how the game has always worked and how the classes and abilities were always designed to be used.  Really it is no different in turn based than it was in real time mode.


Edited by GamerSerg, 09 February 2019 - 12:28 PM.

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#5
Banjodark

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I have to disagree.  Limiting free actions would seriously destroy many builds.  You have to understand that in Real time with pause mode, those free spells cost .4 second because you are supposed to be able to buff up your character in two seconds and get right into the action.  Otherwise your Battlemage type characters who depend on those buffs would spend half the battle just casting buffs and never get into the action.  What fun is that?

 

Being able to "buff up freely" is how the game has always worked and how the classes and abilities were always designed to be used.  Really it is no different in turn based than it was in real time mode.

 

just throwing in my support for this here.

it's really vital to multiple builds to ensure that you can use more than one type of free action a turn, it would be a shame to see this limited, and I can see it weakening some interesting builds because they can never 'get going' fast enough in turn based.



#6
arkteryx

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I think you should be able to use more than one free action per turn but each one only once. Putting up all your battlemage buffs is one thing, spamming spirit tornado or evasive roll to deal massive burst damage is broken. See also using black jacket to swap to a dps weapon then back to a defensive set up every turn, means you can get +30 deflection from dagger and large shield with no downside.


Edited by arkteryx, 16 February 2019 - 05:49 AM.

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#7
nivodeus

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I agree with arkteryx, the ability to buff different free spells on wizard is very helpful, especially in turn base. Maybe something like any free action that deal damage can only be used once per turn. 

As for the Black jacket subclass, a simple limitation such as free action with a cooldown might help here.

 

Something that I notice as well, regarding free action, there is some bug regarding free action on enemies, Some enemies have been observed to use their free action during player turn, such as changing stance. I encounter this very often when fighting enemies fighter, that during my turn, when I about to attack them (still within my turn) they immediately change stance from offensive into defensive, which sometimes can turn my attack into miss or graze.

 

It might not be such a big thing, but there is definitely something weird happening here. 



#8
arkteryx

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Not sure if that's a bug or intended, you too can perform some free actions like changing stance even when it's not your turn. I haven't figured out which you can and which you can't (you definitely can't use second chance the most obvious one) but some work.



#9
nivodeus

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Well, if it's not a bug, I'll be damned. I turned on the auto end turn after action thing, which I know disable most of many possible tactics, such as moving or using another free action after attacking, but I just dont seem any necessity to do that as of now, since most encounter, save some bosses, are easy enough, and pressing an extra button to end turn is kinda tedious, mostly cos I havent found a good shortcut key for it yet. My Space button is for my pause and my other mouse button is reserved for weapon info, which I used fairly often. 

 

I always get used to the idea that in any turn based game, you only do stuff during your turn. Part of me wish it was a bug, but I think this could also be an interesting gameplay mechanic to a normal turn base game, as in you can somehow still react to what enemies gonna do to your character even not during your turn, of course to some extent.

It could be a boon, it could also be something exploitable. I guess we'll see. 



#10
hairyscotsman2

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Seen a few posting about Dex in DnD. I've found 13th Age has excellent solutions, where your defenses are tied to the middle of 3 stats (Example: AC modifier is the middle stat of Dex, Con and Wis, so if you had Con 16, Dex 18 and Wis 12, your AC modifier would come from Con), which discourages the min-maxxing of DnD (or rather generally makes min-maxxers better attack builds and spread stats more durable).
It also elegantly solves the problem of multi-classing, feats and powers boosting class abilities only apply to their native class, so a fighter/rogue that attacks either does so as a fighter (roll and select an effect based on result in 13A) or as a rogue (backstab etc can apply)

RuneQuest has some very interesting system structures for actions. When I was playing the Mythras version, players would get so many actions a round, attacks and parry's both counted as an action and needed to be declared as used as such. A successful parry action against a failed attack would give you a nice bonus, which you could select from various options in a table. You could also use an action of your own to parry for a neighboring ally (say, if their parry failed or if you wanted them to save an action to attack).

PoE has already been structured to give bonuses from different stats. Right now, Dex is bad in TB and the dev's are well aware.

Making Dex important and smaller weapons effective, without either becoming OP is going to be tough, but do-able.

I think the dev's here already know a fair bit about AP systems and examples in PnP systems ;). I'm looking forward to the next TB update.


 






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