[Doubt] Is there Build focused on summons?

[michel.montenegro]

I'm a summon freak! But summoner was way more fun in Divinity OS 2. Can't say that PoE is a summoner's dream.

In any other aspect I prefer PoE, but summoner was cooler in D:OS 2.

 

My additions

 

1) There are figurines. They allow you to summon creatures ASAP. So any class is able to summon immediately without chanting and waiting. You can make hunting for these figurines a cool roleplay flavour.

 

2) I don't like beckoners. Their creatures are x2 in quantity, but x2 smaller and weaker. Sometimes it's hard even to see them! I go base chanter (no subclass). Minmaxers should go beckoner. I prefer to summon 2 huge ogres, than 4 ogres half-sized. They look stupid. 

 

3) Ppl are right about Herald being the best combo (you heal summons and you are very sturdy). But mind the fact that you are locked from 2 top levels of both classes if you multiclass. Top-tier abilities are usually unused anyway, too expensive, but top level summon is a DRAGON. If your goal is to "get the full zoo" it may be a thing.

 

4) wizards and druids get summoned weaponry (think conjuration daedric weapons in TES)

 

5) there is a companion she can also be a herald if you choose

About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

 

What does "Minmaxers" mean?

And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

 

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^

Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

 

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?

 

Herald is very tank, so I saw and help the team a lot, but how does the Herald kill? (I wonder if he has little damage)

 

"3) Top-tier abilities are usually unused anyway, too expensive, but top level summon is a DRAGON.If your goal is to" get the full zoo "it may be a thing."

I did not quite understand the text above...

 

"4) wizards and druids get summoned weaponry (think conjuration daedric weapons in TES)"

Similar to Chanter's weapon invocation?

 

"5) there is a companion she can also be a herald if you choose"

x2 Heralds would be very strong in the Party?

[Boeroer]

Don't fall for the "Herald is god" blah.*

 

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.

What a herald can do for your party and all summons is quite nice though: they can combine Shared Flames (Upgrade of Flames of Devotion) and combine it with the chant "Mith Fyr" and the Zealous Focus aura. Both will stack and give all party members +30% (afaik) burning lash for their weapon attacks. Then he could switch to "survival mode" and deliver bonus armor and healing with Ancient Memory and Exalted Endurance. Both can be done parallel with two Heralds, true - but as I said that's also quite boring since it's very passive.

 

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

 

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

 

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

 

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

 

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

 

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

 

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3.

 

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[michel.montenegro]

Don't fall for the Herald blah.

 

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.

 

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

 

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

 

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

 

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

 

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

 

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

 

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that had the max phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad.

** My team (What I plan):

[Me]

GodLike Moon - Herald (Beckoner)

Might 18, Intelect 19, other 10

Note: Basically the "Healing Wall" build I saw here on the site, I LIKE a lot of invocations (I like to see volume).

Note2: But I'm afraid to do something stupid, because they keep complaining about Backoner and at the same time praising ...

 

My other favorite RPG classes:

Druid, Ranger, Priest, (Wizard or Rogue)

Note: I have not added Monk since I usually use it as main, never secondary (Helper). And I'm not much of a fan of Barbaro.

 

I wanted them to release 6 slots: /

 

So far I do not know which RPG character I could compare with Cipher, nor do I have any idea of ​​the character's proposal. Was it a "Mesmer"?

 

What is "Wild Growth"? It still exists, how does it work? Is the effect good?

 

What is ACC and Rel?

How could this help my team?

 

True, casters (Wizard / Druid / Priest) in the beginning are sad, basically no option.

 

"With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3."

- Backoner would be good in this case?

 

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars.

- Did not I understand.

Edited January 26, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[Boeroer]

 

Don't fall for the Herald blah.

 

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.

 

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

 

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

 

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

 

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

 

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

 

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

 

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that had the max phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad.

** My team (What I plan):

[Me]

GodLike Moon - Herald (Beckoner)

Might 18, Intelect 19, other 10

Note: Basically the "Healing Wall" build I saw here on the site, I LIKE a lot of invocations (I like to see volume).

Note2: But I'm afraid to do something stupid, because they keep complaining about Backoner and at the same time praising ...

 

My other favorite RPG classes:

Druid, Ranger, Priest, (Wizard or Rogue)

Note: I have not added Monk since I usually use it as main, never secondary (Helper). And I'm not much of a fan of Barbaro.

 

I wanted them to release 6 slots: /

 

So far I do not know which RPG character I could compare with Cipher, nor do I have any idea of ​​the character's proposal. Was it a "Mesmer"?

 

What is "Wild Growth"? It still exists, how does it work? Is the effect good?

 

What is ACC and Rel?

How could this help my team?

 

True, casters (Wizard / Druid / Priest) in the beginning are sad, basically no option.

 

"With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3."

- Backoner would be good in this case?

 

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars.

- Did not I understand.

Chanter subclasses don't matter when it comes to my above hint. It's the case for all of them. Troubadour is widely considered more powerful than a Beckoner and can also dish out summons very quickly. Beckoner summons twice the amount of summons but they are smaller and have less health. They also cost more. You decide what's best for you. I would say generally for beginners the Troubadour is better since it's less niche/more versatile.

 

That part about the Morning Star was just a little inside-joke.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Frak]

 

About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

 

What does "Minmaxers" mean?

And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

 

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^

Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

 

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?

 

 

 

 

 

"Minmaxing" is RPG-language for "mechanically optimizing your character/team at the possible cost of roleplay". It's when you choose certain, races, classes, abilities, items, and companions for mechanical reasons instead of going with what you like for a roleplay-perspective. Some people enjoy min-maxing and figuring out new combinations/compositions.

 

Min-maxers will show you big colourful Excel-graphs and say something like: "Due to diminishing returns we can clearly see in this pivot that the optimal resolve value is 12,65, if you also choose to have dexterity at 5.43. Unfortunately we cannot have 0.65, so we round it down to 12. The damage increase will be 1.8% better than my previous build".

 

You can respec/reset at most merchants/inns. Look or the dice-icon in the left side

 

 

PS. Also, chanter is best class! This is a fact! There is no scientific evidence for it, but it is a fact!

[michel.montenegro]

 

 

About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

 

What does "Minmaxers" mean?

And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

 

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^

Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

 

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?

 

 

 

 

 

"Minmaxing" is RPG-language for "mechanically optimizing your character/team at the possible cost of roleplay". It's when you choose certain, races, classes, abilities, items, and companions for mechanical reasons instead of going with what you like for a roleplay-perspective. Some people enjoy min-maxing and figuring out new combinations/compositions.

 

Min-maxers will show you big colourful Excel-graphs and say something like: "Due to diminishing returns we can clearly see in this pivot that the optimal resolve value is 12,65, if you also choose to have dexterity at 5.43. Unfortunately we cannot have 0.65, so we round it down to 12. The damage increase will be 1.8% better than my previous build".

 

You can respec/reset at most merchants/inns. Look or the dice-icon in the left side

 

 

PS. Also, chanter is best class! This is a fact! There is no scientific evidence for it, but it is a fact!

 

At least as MultiClass Looks Like! ^^

But I understood your explanation, thank you.

 

"Minmaxers should go beckoner"

Does the above text excerpt make me think that beckoner would be the top statistic build (Herald), or did I misinterpret it?

[michel.montenegro]

 

Chanter subclasses don't matter when it comes to my above hint. It's the case for all of them. Troubadour is widely considered more powerful than a Beckoner and can also discuss out summons very quickly. Beckoner summons twice the amount of summons but they are smaller and have less health. They also cost more. You decide what's best for you. I would say generally for beginners the Troubadour is better since it's less niche/more versatile.

 

That part about the Morning Star was just a little inside-joke.

 

 

x1 monster of 100hp or x2 of 50hp?

Technically x2 will last much less (dying in few hits in area), but has a greater potential for damage.

 

And realizing that the community has difficulty using the Beckoner, on account of the speed with which the invocations die, apparently. It is not yet for a player to speak with confidence that he uses Backoner and likes him in PotD.

[Frak]

Beckoner is a subclass that is clearly designed to focus on summons. I would go beckoner if I liked summons.

It fits roleplay-wise and I imagine you get more "oomph" with a beckoner due to the many summons.

 

If I wanted to focus on summon, I'd go beckoner. Maybe default chanter if - as one poster stated - you don't like the small size of the summons.

 

I'm a great chanter-fan, but I am more of a melee guy, so I go skald. ;-)

[Frak]

Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

 

Assumptions are the mother of all duck-ups. And without data, they are just opinions and hearsay.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Frak

[Boeroer]

The best Herald (in my opinion) comes with Goldpact Knight/Troubadour. You'll have tremendous staying power while being able to keep up two active phrases OR speed up your invocation frequency by 100%. If you go for Shared Flames and Exalted Endurance (Paladin part) + Ancient Memory only (Troubadour part) and dish out invocations like there is no tomorrow you will have a less boring and very powerful Herald who heals the party passively and gives them armor, gives them a lash for offense, doesn't die and actively casts invocations a lot (which includes summons).  

[Boeroer]

Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

They have half. They are whimpy.

 

michel.montenegro is right: they die more quickly but deal more damage. They also have more CC potential since there are mory bodies on the field. For example skeletons have engagement which stops all rushers. Double Skeletons = twice the engagement slots.

 

There are also some tricks where you profit from killed summons since they count as allies and you get on-kill effects if you kill them yourself. Look at Paladin's abilites or the Grave Calling sabre.

[Frak]

Troubador is fine subclass for a min-maxer [winks at Børør. Can I call you Børør, Boeroer? I'mma gonna call you Børør], but is vailian.

 

Vailians are bad people. You don't want to run around with a jaunty cap and talk with that arrogant accent they all have. 

[Frak]

 

Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

They have half. 

 

Challenge accepted. I'm going to test that!

[Boeroer]

Seems more danish to me than vailian.

 

The original name is "Börör", but umlauts could annoy english forum software back in the days, so I circumvented them. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Watch out when testing: since the scaling is messed up (still) it may be that one summon you call is scaled differently (and thus has different health) than a second one. You will have to check if the compared summons are of the same level. 

[Frak]

Seems more danish to me than vailian.

 

The original name is "Börör", but umlauts could annoy english forum software back in the days, so I circumvented them. 

 

Nah mate. That's just me. 

 

Oh, those umlauts. Ah duck it. I'm just gonna use 'oe'. Why confuse other posters?

[Frak]

Watch out when testing: since the scaling is messed up (still) it may be that one summon you call is scaled differently (and thus has different health) than a second one. You will have to check if the compared summons are of the same level. 

 

 

I dpn't use the console. Which means testing will be on Maje Island with low-level summons.

[Boeroer]

Jeez - why not? Speeds things up so profundly. 

[michel.montenegro]

see
"More characters means more hits, which means more interrupts and a wider wall in front of your squishies, among other things."
"Beckoner is way better. Two drakes using empowered breaths will end every fight in seconds. There's no cooldown on their breath uses."

"Chanter: Troubadour vs Beckoner"
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8jmgcc/chanter_troubadour_vs_beckoner/

Edited January 26, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[Boeroer]

They omit the fact that the Beckoner pays more phrases for an invocation AND can't generate phrases as quickly as a Troubadour. That means he usually can't keep summons on the field all the time. He will be busy only summoning if he wants to do that. Nothing else. It also means that the Troubadour can summon more creatures in a given time. Because he can generate twice as fast (so twiche the summoning frequency) while his "Many Lives Pass By" will produce a skeleton passively ever 3 seconds! 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Frak]

1) I don't use console because old computer and I am a bit of purist. I like to play the game without mods.

 

2) Chanter is s magic-user with default points in arcana. People tend to forget they can use scrolls when gathering phrases.

 

3) I still find that troubadour is overtuned (compared to default). I don't usually cry for nerfs, but I think troubadour is in need of a minor one/penalty.

 

 

But yeah, action economy of several more summons from beckoner is also an important thing. Go beckoner! ;-)

[michel.montenegro]

They omit the fact that the Beckoner pays more phrases for an invocation AND can't generate phrases as quickly as a Troubadour. That means he usually can't keep summons on the field all the time. He will be busy only summoning if he wants to do that. Nothing else. It also means that the Troubadour can summon more creatures in a given time. Because he can generate twice as fast (so twiche the summoning frequency) while his "Many Lives Pass By" will produce a skeleton passively ever 3 seconds! 

You say that in 18 seconds, you would have more invocations in the field with Troubadour than Beckoner?

 

 

 

I'm reading:

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8ped7i/no_reason_to_play_a_beckoner_chanter_subclass_now/

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8jmaza/chanter_beckoner_or_troubadour/

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8jlt8g/troubadour_or_beckoner_summoner_multiclass/

 

 

[Frak]

With "brisk recitation" on, a troubador gets 6 phrases in 18 seconds (but loses linger). Which means he can cast skeletons almost (costs 4, right?) twice. Nerf troubadour!

 

A beckoner gets 3 phrases in 18 seconds. which means he can cast skeletons almost (costs 4, right?) once. Same amount and they fill more on the battlefield, but are smaller and shorter duration.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Frak

[Boeroer]

Let's say 24 seconds and forget the casting time for a bit:

 

Troubadour: generates 8 phrases --> can cast 2 skeleton invocations that cost 4 each --> 6 skeletons 

Beckoner: generates 4 phrases --> can cast 1 skeleton invocation that costs 4 --> 6 skeletons 

 

So in 24 secs the troubadour summons the same amount of summons - but they are sturdier and bigger. At the same time he can produce a skeleton every 3 seconds whith "Many Lives Pass By" while the Beckoner can only produce eone every 6 seconds:

 

So in 24 seconds the Troubadour summons 12 skeletons while the Beckoner summons 9. 6 of those are whimpy.

 

The advantage of the Beckoner is that all 6 come out at once and do damage right away - and that you can profit from killed summons. Which is easier if they die faster.

[Kaylon]

The main issue of the beckoner is the short duration of their summons. Even 35int isn't enough to keep the summons 100% of the time (and it becomes even worse if the summons are killed before they expire).