The Political Thread - Browncoat edition... down with the Alliance!

[injurai]

Democracy Now has an agenda, but I'm fairly certain that agenda is to keep governments honest. One might say the same about Wikileaks, though I'm not sure exactly where they stand these days with their bias, it's all too obscure. But that's what one would expect from an organization focused on protecting its existence in order to fulfill it's goal.

 

AP/Reuters/C-Span you might not call news, but they certainly keep things honest (relatively) even if they don't call out the wider story.

[Gfted1]

From my perspective "the press" is nothing more than a Constitutionally sanctioned organizations of liars whoes sole purpose it to generate disharmony among the population. 

 

Whos watching the watchers? No-damn-body. They need to be stripped of their protections until they themselves are "kept honest".

[Gromnir]

 

Wait, I thought "the press" got a free pass because they "keep the government honest". Are you saying thats not at all true and they each have their own agendas?

Well, the "press" is hardly monolithic. But even so both things can be true at once. 

 

more significant is the obvious mischaracterization o' the press getting a free pass.  ny times v. sullivan (9-0) is a free speech case as 'posed to a press-specific case.  all Americans, when discussing public figures and events, has a low threshold for fact checking...  and thank goodness for folks such as gifted and gd and Gromnir 'cause "publish" applies equal to tens o' thousands o' printings daily by a city newspaper as it does posting on a game message board or pamphlets handed out on a street corner or similar.  can't knowing or intentional print falsehoods, but mistake is forgiven and aggressive advocating a particular pov is historical more common than is attempts at impartial reporting.

 

'course the the myth o' the unbiased press were created to vilify the press and hold it to a standard which has never existed in this country. free pass?  *chuckle* 

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/104780-political-thread-xx/?p=2087953

 

there is this notion o' the press being coconspirators with and getting a free pass from obama during his administration.  have personal pointed out the error o' such a notion more than once. Congress and many elements o' the press rolled over for obama during the first two years o' his administration, but after that, no President since lincoln had been as aggressive in attacking journalists as were obama.

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bs-ae-zontv-trumpvpress-20170304-story.html

 

the thing is, not obama and not even lincoln attacked legitimacy o' the institution o' the press.  both lincoln and obama understood the essential role o' the press in US politics and they similar recognized the deference the founders afforded the rabid and biased journalists o' the late 1700s. core American values and all that.  appreciation o' place in history and whatnot. there is no free pass for the press, so is no point refuting, but even so, the thankful enlightened men who has typical held office o' the President has, for the most part, recognized the worth o' the traditions and laws which protect the press (as well as individual Americans) when discussing newsworthy persons and events. 

 

also, we never subscribed to the doomsayer pov offered up by some elements in the media.  we specific noted how 2019 and 1919 were hardly interchangeable. 

 

heck, one o' our favorite spencer tracy monologues doesn't work quite same today as it did 1967.

 

 

even so, the past decade has been disappointing for us.  is not the rough beast slouching towards bethlehem, but have personal been surprised by degree o' political polarization and the magnitude o' individual intolerance we has seen from fellow Americans in recent years.  worse, as we noted earlier in the thread, we has become numb to what we previous woulda' considered unthinkable. catholic schoolboys in a confrontation with native americans and black israelites? compared to antifa and white supremacists in numbers literal stabbing and clubbing each other on steps o' state capitol, the covington boys brouhaha is minor.  our standard for normal (not same as acceptable) has shifted in the last few years and the move has been more than a little. yeah, the media indulges in hyperbole, but the carus effect o' the last few years o' increasing improbable news may be a contributing factor.

 

check out the ethics in america series, particular episode 3: public trust, private interest.

 

https://www.learner.org/resources/series81.html#

 

is 1989, which is not so long ago for an old dog such as Gromnir.

 

at 4:50-- why don't you lie?

 

of all the videos in the series, the only one which feels complete outta touch, but enlightening for that very reason, is the discussion o' media.  good thing?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 24, 2019 by Gromnir

[smjjames]

Trumps 1%er Cabinet strikes again.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/business/wilbur-ross-loans-food-assistance-government-shutdown/index.html

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/1/24/18195782/wilbur-ross-shutdown-workers-loans-food-banks

 

I can think of several reasons why they wouldn't want to take out loans...

[Gfted1]

To me, theres a large difference between "oopsie, my bad" and purposeful organized lying. One gets a pass, the other is viewed in disgust as they tear society apart.

[Gromnir]

To me, theres a large difference between "oopsie, my bad" and purposeful organized lying. 

 

you are speaking of breitbart and fox news of course.  yes, such organizations play fast and loose with truth.  they use protected sources which is unreliable or providing alternative facts so skewed from norms that mostest people would at least hesitate to use.  heck, can see how on this board folks will indulge in referencing any google'd article regardless o' how transparent ludicrous. joshua ryne goldberg? worse, some commentators will so mangle actual facts as to hardly seem plausible, but prove they were doing malicious is difficult as ignorance is so widespread.  heck, on these boards we had multi-page discussion explaining how global average temp rise is not same as rate o' change and were utter baffled by intransigence or ignorance we encountered.  prove ainsley earhardt is a malicious liar as 'posed to bafflingly ignorant and incompetent is tougher than might initial appear... which again, is good for ordinary citizens and press alike.

 

regardless, purposeful and organized lying is not protected, so is another non-issue.  there is no Constitutional or common law libel protection for those who indulge in purposeful and organized lying, regardless o' the narrative some folks is spreading.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

My rabbit-hole radar is flickering. I do not care about any particular news organization and hold them all in equal contempt, mkay? Its a non-issue because everyone can fall back onto "totes a case of ignorance and not a case of lying". Theres no accountability.

 

I wonder how they can force their way into the WH press room. Can I do that as a "concerned citizen"?

[Hurlshort]

Tell that to Brian Williams.

[Gfted1]

That is an interesting example of how lying about yourself will get the hammer but "ignorantly reporting, every day" has absolutely no effect on ones career.

[Gromnir]

My rabbit-hole radar is flickering. I do not care about any particular news organization and hold them all in equal contempt, mkay? Its a non-issue because everyone can fall back onto "totes a case of ignorance and not a case of lying". Theres no accountability.

 

I wonder how they can force their way into the WH press room. Can I do that as a "concerned citizen"?

sure there is accountability for press, just as there is accountability for individual citizens who publish libelous content... is why we have libel tort.  standard o' proof is tough, and again, is thankful tough.  founding fathers did not want to chill open and frank discussions o' noteworthy persons and events.  need scrupulous fact checking for every schnook passing out pamphlets or writing letter to editor is not only resulting in less speech but is unAmerican... or at least it woulda' been almost universal viewed as unAmerican to hamstring political speech even a few years past. 2019 is different.

 

as to wh access, is getting pretty far afield from initial issue, but will answer more fully than is deserved, w/o resorting to case names 'n such.  custom and tradition, as much as written law, may have weight o' law.  no doubt any involved in regular course o' business understands the wisdom o' such generalities.  in the hypothetical widget business, a "truckload," as a matter o' custom and tradition, actual represents a specific number of units: 500.  got a contract tween manufacturer and vendor which specifies delivery o' one truckload per month.  evuhl manufacturer thinks he is sneaky and uses a remote controlled toy truck 'bout the size o' a bread toaster and delivers a single widget to the vendor in june. goes to court and points out to judge how the vendor were the one to write the contract, so any ambiguity in the C is gonna work against the author.  truckload, in ordinary english, is unspecific.  manufacturer complete loaded his truck and made delivery as promised. most o' us would be justifiable outraged by manufacturers actions.   thankful, if vendor is able to show "truckload" is indeed custom in the widget business, then vendor is likely gonna win case.  is a similar principle with government actions, particular when actions is utter transparent.  if wh has been allowing reporters, including reporter D in particular, access to wh press room frequent enough so as to make clear such is ordinary course o' business, then sudden stop such access is gonna trigger due process, regardless o' lack o' any specific rule or law granting access to reporters.  

 

during the civil rights era, government institutions in the south found ways to seeming legal deny access to blacks from vote and important services.  literacy requirements for voting is no doubt familiar.  less well covered in high school history texts were apparent innocuous stuff such as business hour restrictions at government offices which government knew disproportionate affected minority access. when government changes rules and behaviours to disadvantage folks it doesn't like, the Court should hopeful steps in and delivers a smackdown on the government. 

 

and keep in mind, the President don't in anyway own the wh.  gifted and Gromnir ain't been vetted and cleared for access to press room.  is obvious and reasonable security concerns related to random persons gaining access to wh.  converse, prevent a person who has gone through all the security protocols from government space they has been previous been afforded access to 'cause they is rude or antagonistic to President is not gonna be an argument which gains much traction. am honest surprised the wh press room access thing were gaining the President any sympathy... and to be fair, even the majority o' fox commentators chastised the chief executive on this point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[ktchong]

A new report has just come out.

 

Who committed the most extremist killings in America in 2018? Take a guess.

 

Antifa? 

Black Lives Matter?

Communists?

Democrats? 

Islamic terrorists?

Left-wing radicals? 

Muslims? 

Radical socialists?

 

 

Here is the correct answer: It's right-wing extremists.

 

 

Next question: what percentage of all 2018 extremist killings in America was committed by right-wing extremists?

 

 

It's 100 percent. 

 

 

All of the extremist killings in America in 2018 - every single one of them - was committed by right-winger.  Not Antifa.  Not BLM.  Not loonie lefties.    Every single one of the extremist killing and murders in America in 2018 was committed by a far right conservative, a right-winger. 

 

 

Source: Anti-Defamation League's Annual Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2018

Edited January 24, 2019 by ktchong

[Blarghagh]

Isn't that every year for the last fifty years with the sole exception of 9-11?

[Gromnir]

Isn't that every year for the last fifty years with the sole exception of 9-11?

the report only addresses what is described as domestic or homegrown extremists, therefore, 9-11 doesn't apply.  as such, only 2016 would be excluded from your 50 year guesstimate, although the reports only go back as far as 1995.  the 49 killed by omar mateen is a notable exception to typical white supremist... supremacy?

 

regardless, the way ktchong presents report is misleading.  

 

unrelated--

 

https://www.learner.org/vod/vod_window.html?pid=200

 

is also a press related ethics in america video.  forgot to identify episode 10.

 

cannot stress how valuable we believe this video series to be and while am doubtful more than one or two people frequenting these boards will ever bothers to watch 'em all, that reality is a shame.  give 'em a chance if you have patience and time.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Its not all in vain! I watched a pretty good chunk of the video the last time you linked it.

[Gorth]

Isn't that every year for the last fifty years with the sole exception of 9-11?

Yeah, those planes had both a left and a right wing...

 

Edit: That's it, I need more sleep. Dang heat is starting to get to me

[Gromnir]

 

Isn't that every year for the last fifty years with the sole exception of 9-11?

Yeah, those planes had both a left and a right wing...

 

Edit: That's it, I need more sleep. Dang heat is starting to get to me

 

reminds us o' only engineer joke we know.

 

a flight departs warsaw on a trip headed to nyc. flight is uneventful, but just before landing, the captain entertains the passengers by pointing out a famous usa landmark.

 

pilot: attention passengers, if you look out your starboard window, you'll notice the statue of liberty.

 

the passengers move over to view the iconic monument and immediately the plane crashes, killing everyone on board.

 

q: why did the plane crash?

 

a: all the poles were on the right side of the plane.

 

*shrug*

 

didn't say it were a good joke.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[SonicMage117]

Anti-Defamation League's Annual Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2018

As someone who leans more toward the left, Imma ask...

 

Should we trust this source in the age where leftist extremists call themselves "unbiased" and manipulate statistics?

 

My gut tells me don't believe everything I read. Esp if it's on the net and even moreso when it comes to politics.

[smjjames]

And there were four left wing type ones in 2017. Also, it'd be more productive to break it down into types rather than lumping it all into one, the page says that they ranged from white supremacist type ones, to a few incel idiots, to islamist, despite what ktchong said.

[BruceVC]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/25/politics/roger-stone-arrested/index.html

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/informal-trump-adviser-roger-stone-arrested-in-florida-11548415987?mod=breakingnews

 

Roger Stone has been arrested by the FBI, this will give us more information around the Wikileaks and Trump campaign links as Stone was a middle man for that relationship 

Edited January 25, 2019 by BruceVC

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Anti-Defamation League's Annual Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2018

As someone who leans more toward the left, Imma ask...

 

Should we trust this source in the age where leftist extremists call themselves "unbiased" and manipulate statistics?

 

My gut tells me don't believe everything I read. Esp if it's on the net and even moreso when it comes to politics.

 

 

 

"Hello there fellow leftists. I am very left-wing. Just the most left-wing guy you can imagine. By the way, have you noticed how everybody on the left is an evil lying extremist?"

[Volourn]

Both the elft and right manipulate stuff.For example, people act all shock that 'whites' commit mosdt extremist murders in the US. I dunno why that should be shocking since white people are majority of Amerikans (for now).  Plus, the media (of both sides) tend to avoid reporting things that don't fit their agenda.

[BruceVC]

Both the elft and right manipulate stuff.For example, people act all shock that 'whites' commit mosdt extremist murders in the US. I dunno why that should be shocking since white people are majority of Amerikans (for now).  Plus, the media (of both sides) tend to avoid reporting things that don't fit their agenda.

Correct, white people make up 70 % of the total population so statistically " more white people would commit most right wing murders " wouldn't they ?

[Bartimaeus]

 

 

Anti-Defamation League's Annual Report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2018

As someone who leans more toward the left, Imma ask...

 

Should we trust this source in the age where leftist extremists call themselves "unbiased" and manipulate statistics?

 

My gut tells me don't believe everything I read. Esp if it's on the net and even moreso when it comes to politics.

 

 

 

"Hello there fellow leftists. I am very left-wing. Just the most left-wing guy you can imagine. By the way, have you noticed how everybody on the left is an evil lying extremist?"

 

 

P.S. Trump advisor Roger Stone was arrested by Mueller this morning.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[SonicMage117]

Hello there fellow leftists. I am very left-wing. Just the most left-wing guy you can imagine. By the way, have you noticed how everybody on the left is an evil lying extremist?

Because leftists cannot disagree with each other's views. Right, I would expect that logic here But yeah, I said I leaned towards left, never said I was a lefty. Nice run though! Edited January 25, 2019 by SonicMage117

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Because leftists cannot disagree with each other's views. 

 

 

this is correct I am the sole arbiter of leftism around here

 

you either 100% agree with me on everything or you shall be branded a false leftist and a traitor to the cause