[Bug 4.0] Arcane Archer not scaling as expected

My understanding is that the Arcane Archer imbue effects should benefit from PL scaling similarly to spells.  For imbue missiles I think that means .5 missile per PL and .25 PEN per PL.  So if I'm PL 6 that should mean +2.5 (aka 2) missiles and +1.25 PEN.   I'm seeing the additional missiles (I get 5), but not the additional PEN (it only shows a PEN of 7, which is the base).  This seems like a potential bug, but I wanted to be sure I understood how it was intended to work.

Edited January 4, 2019 by TheWeaver

1 hour ago, Phenomenum said:

Take your time. Seems like easy 'one button' fix. I will look closer and test it on weekend and, if successful, we include this fix in our Community Patch.

                    "PowerLevelScaling": {
                        "ScalingType": "Default",
                        "BaseLevel": 0,
                        "LevelIncrement": 1,
                        "MaxLevel": 0,
                        "DamageAdjustment": 1,
                        "DurationAdjustment": 1,
                        "BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
                        "ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
                        "AccuracyAdjustment": 0,
                        "PenetrationAdjustment": 0 - THIS

Just give me full list of abilities you want to fix. Fireball... and something else?

Both Imbue:Missles and Imbue:Fireball suffer from this problem.

I'm also surprised that this is not addressed. This is a bug that makes the whole subclass unplayable imo, and based on Phenomenum's comment it is one button fix, i mean why not add it to the patch if it is so easy to fix.

Arcane archers imbue spells, so their penetration scales the same as spells to keep,the, useful. Imbue: Missles/Fireball/Death.

6 hours ago, dunehunter said:

I'm also surprised that this is not addressed. This is a bug that makes the whole subclass unplayable imo, and based on Phenomenum's comment it is one button fix, i mean why not add it to the patch if it is so easy to fix.

Hm... It's only suggestion, for now. I'll let you know, when i test it.

Maybe the spells get attached to the shot like other spells do get attched to items?

For example Avenging Storm gets attached to Heaven's Cacophony: also doesn't scale with Power Level.

54 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

For example Avenging Storm gets attached to Heaven's Cacophony: also doesn't scale with Power Level.

Yeah, I was about to post that it might not be as simple, as Imbued Spells are attached to the main attack, which has its own calculation. I would imagine there is an engine limitation which makes it tricky to do a thing like that properly.

Yes, unfortunately it's complicated.
The thing is whole ability pipeline: Ability >>> Apply Status Effect to Target >>> Status Effect triggers attack. So there's no direct connection between Ability and Attack and no way to directly scale any of Attack properties (including Penetration and Projectiles count) from ability settings. In current implementation. MAY BE - or maybe not - i could do something about it, but it requires rewriting whole ability anyway.
So, sorry guys.

BTW Obsidian should know about it and they keep silent becose they cant answer: "Yes, we added whole class abilities without scaling becose it's not available due to chosen way of implementation. We ****ed up." Jackasses.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Phenomenum

Hm. A simpler solution would be to create a copy of Minor Missiles/Fireball/Death Ring which has higher PEN right from the start (like if it was cast by a PL9 Wizard). That would be an advantage over the original spells - but only in terms of PEN. Damage, projectile count etc. would still not scale at all. Maybe a simple and acceptable compromise? Would also make a bit of sense: a damaging spell that gets triggered by a fast, piercing arrow/bullet/bolt might have better penetration.   

Since PEN seems to be the most pressing issue with the damaging Imbue Spells.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Boeroer

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Hm. A simpler solution would be to create a copy of Minor Missiles/Fireball/Death Ring which has higher PEN right from the start

No, then we'll lose ranged weapon attack, which has Interrupt on Crit. More than that, these new abilities will be act not as Imbues but as ordinary wizard's spells. It will break subclass essence and philosophy.

I suggest next solution at the moment (not perfect, but it will help to restore the balance).
1. Add flat +2 BONUS PEN to those 3 abilities. It means both attacks - spell and weapon - will receive flat +2 PEN.
2. Add corresponding keywords to all Imbues. At the moment all Imbues has only one keyword - em... "Imbue". Adding additional keywords to abilities - e.g. "Imbue, Fire" or "Imbue, Conjuration" - will provide additional PL, Accuracy, Pen, Damage etc. bonuses from items and subclasses to abilities - both weapon and spell attacks.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Phenomenum

49 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Since PEN seems to be the most pressing issue with the damaging Imbue Spells.

Of course. From my tests: Fireball Damage roll 58... -75% UnderPen penalty = 13 Damage. And it costs 3 Bound. Ha-ha.

HA!

Edited May 9, 2019 by Phenomenum

5 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Of course. From my tests: Fireball Damage roll 58... -75% UnderPen penalty = 13 Damage. And it costs 3 Bound. Ha-ha.

HA!

Agreed.  The class is unplayable as it stands.  Makes me even more salty about the ill-conceived decision to cram turn based in at the end -- took away any hope that the inevitable issues in the new sub-classes would ever be fixed.  Oh well... I've moved on and there appears to be no reason to move back.

Adding keywords to the imbued spells seems like a worthy fix (and quite a bit of an oversight that they aren't keyworded like that in the first place.)

I don't know about the flat +2 penetration, but I'll leave it up to others. I'm also moving on from the thought of playing an Arcane Archer.

8 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Add corresponding keywords to all Imbues. At the moment all Imbues has only one keyword - em... "Imbue". Adding additional keywords to abilities - e.g. "Imbue, Fire" or "Imbue, Conjuration" - will provide additional PL, Accuracy, Pen, Damage etc. bonuses from items and subclasses to abilities - both weapon and spell attacks.

Would it be possible to give Arcane Archer a passive which adds Pen to keyword “imbue”?

12 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Would it be possible to give Arcane Archer a passive which adds Pen to keyword “imbue”?

Yes, i tested it right now. Penetration bonus, scaling with Arcana - just like Acc bonus. Unfortunately, it works only with new created chars. Simple passive Pen bonus (without Arcana scaling) also works only for new chars.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Phenomenum

It is a shame.

This game clearly need one or two addtionnal patch.

Community patch is always awsome, but I know people don't know this kind of upgrade exist, or people don't like modify the original game, or even, the version for console ?

Edited May 10, 2019 by theBalthazar

Will you post this Community Patch on Nexus or steam workshop? And do you have any ETA for this? ( I want to start new game finally)

4 hours ago, Majber said:

Will you post this Community Patch on Nexus or steam workshop? And do you have any ETA for this? ( I want to start new game finally)

No hard ETA, but we scope on next weekend for BETA release.
And, HOORAY , thanks to the @MaxQuest, we found the solution for Penetration problem, that works for all - existing and newly created - characters. Penetration will be scale with Arcana skill, +0.25 Pen for 1 point = +5 Pen with 20 Arcana. Tested it just right now and it's works with all Imbues.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Phenomenum

Do you know if that mod will require new game or it will be save game compatible?

3 minutes ago, Majber said:

Do you know if that mod will require new game or it will be save game compatible?

Nothing special. You can turn it on/off whatever you want.

Noice.

Will this become part of the Deadfire Polishing Mod(s)?

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Will this become part of the Deadfire Polishing Mod(s)?

Sure.

1 hour ago, Phenomenum said:

Sure.

Awesome. Thank you for your work guys.

Will it also work for Turn Based mode or are you focusing purely on RTwP?

I don't think you have to do two seperate mods for RtwP and TB...? Do you mean this particular fix (Arcane Archer) or the whole Polishing mod?

This in particular (as my current character is Arcane Archer with TB), though the whole community patch would be welcome.

I have no idea how much overlap between both modes there is.

Penetration fix for AArcher in TB mode will be tha same as in RTwP. And most of other fixes in Community Patch (if not all) will work in TB mode.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Phenomenum