Is there an auto-attack ranged Wizard build that does reasonable DPS?

[Lampros]

I employed one in PoE 1, as a hybrid CC and rod auto-attack bot, and it did reasonable DPS - a bit behind both ranged Fighter and Rogue but acceptable since it was also devoting some chunk of time to CC. But in PoE 2, the rod guy is doing horribly, even though he is not doing any CC at all so far and purely auto-attacking with the rod. So why is he performing so badly? Is it because the Blast attack now requires a -50 percent recovery speed modal? Or is it because there are no decent rods early game? Whatever the reason, he's literally doing LESS THAN HALF of the DPS as the other party members, including ones who joined later.

 

So is rod auto-attacking not viable as ranged DPS now? If so, what other auto-attacking builds are there for Wizards? Can dual scepters do reasonably more?

 

Frankly, I am also wondering if you even need the Wizard's CC in PoE 2 as much as you did in PoE 1. In PoE 2, I can make everyone Rogue multi-class, for instance, and that's probably enough CC there.

[Boeroer]

Wizards are better as nukers in Deadfire.

 

Blast is not good as a general dps tool because the recovery malus hurts badly.

 

Since pure Wizards have no dmg bonuses except MIG they are not good auto-attackers anyway (in Deadfire).

 

What can work well though with auto-attacks is Kalakoth's Minor Blights - single use or with a melee weapon in the offhand: you'll get Dual Wielding speed and Two Weapon Style will work as well. Later on you can even use Tuotilo's Palm (small shield) and get the same speed but also get +deflection and +reflex. But I would only do that when nobody else needs it. Blights do the same as rods but with no recovery malus and are one-handed (and elemental).

 

What you can also do to increase your auto-attack performance: cast Concelhaut's Draining Touch or Kalakoth's Minor Blights (and use the Ring of Focused Flame), then summon Essential Phantom. It will run around and attack with the corrosive fist or the burn version of Minor Blights. Both will NOT go away but are permanent until the phantom dissipates. The fist does great single target dmg even on a phantom while the burning Blight will profit from +10 ACC from the ring. If you don't use an offhand weapon both will get +12 ACC as well. The Blight then has a +22 bonus.

[Somnium_Meum]

Conjured Blackbow is still pretty decent for pure Wizards. Supported by buffs such as Citzal's Prowess you can get some nice DPS

Spellblade (Wiz+Rogue) is neat, you get large damage increase from Sneak attacks and buffs from Wizard. It's reliable and quite good.

Sage(Wiz+Monk) can get both Citzal's Lance and Instruments of Pain, which means you'll be creating explosions from 9m range, dealing massive AOE DPS

 

 

Wizards are better as nukers in Deadfire.

Blast is not good as a general dps tool because the recovery malus hurts badly.

Since pure Wizards have no dmg bonuses except MIG they are not good auto-attackers anyway (in Deadfire).

What can work well though with auto-attacks is Kalakoth's Minor Blights - single use or with a melee weapon in the offhand: you'll get Dual Wielding speed and Two Weapon Style will work as well. Later on you can even use Tuotilo's Palm (small shield) and get the same speed but also get +deflection and +reflex. But I would only do that when nobody else needs it. Blights do the same as rods but with no recovery malus and are one-handed (and elemental).

What you can also do to increase your auto-attack performance: cast Concelhaut's Draining Touch or Kalakoth's Minor Blights (and use the Ring of Focused Flame), then summon Essential Phantom. It will run around and attack with the corrosive fist or the burn version of Minor Blights. Both will NOT go away but are permanent until the phantom dissipates. The fist does great single target dmg even on a phantom while the burning Blight will profit from +10 ACC from the ring. If you don't use an offhand weapon both will get +12 ACC as well. The Blight then has a +22 bonus.

Every time i use Blights i feel like i lose a lot of DPS to blights switching. Each blight lasts for a fixed amount of time and if you're in middle of animation when the switch occurs it resets that animation.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Somnium_Meum

[Boeroer]

That's why the phantom with Blights is neat. It doesn't cycle the Blights but stays with the one you had when summoning (I would make sure it's burn since that works with the Ring of Focused Flames).

 

I was speaking about single class wizards by the way. Multiclass wizards can do stong auto-attacks in certain cases. Especially Monk works very well because of Dance of Death (universal ACC and wounds), Duality:INT and Alacrity generating wounds for you.

 

Blackbow is nice but comes very late. Same with Enchanted Armory which gives you two one handed two handers (great sword + morning star - nice dps boost for dual wielders in some cases due to more base dmg) and a legendary Breastplate with 0 recovery malus.

I don't know if the Blackbow now profits from Spirit of Decay. It didn't but maybe that got fixed.

[Lampros]

Wizards are better as nukers in Deadfire.

 

Blast is not good as a general dps tool because the recovery malus hurts badly.

 

Since pure Wizards have no dmg bonuses except MIG they are not good auto-attackers anyway (in Deadfire).

 

What can work well though with auto-attacks is Kalakoth's Minor Blights - single use or with a melee weapon in the offhand: you'll get Dual Wielding speed and Two Weapon Style will work as well. Later on you can even use Tuotilo's Palm (small shield) and get the same speed but also get +deflection and +reflex. But I would only do that when nobody else needs it. Blights do the same as rods but with no recovery malus and are one-handed (and elemental).

 

What you can also do to increase your auto-attack performance: cast Concelhaut's Draining Touch or Kalakoth's Minor Blights (and use the Ring of Focused Flame), then summon Essential Phantom. It will run around and attack with the corrosive fist or the burn version of Minor Blights. Both will NOT go away but are permanent until the phantom dissipates. The fist does great single target dmg even on a phantom while the burning Blight will profit from +10 ACC from the ring. If you don't use an offhand weapon both will get +12 ACC as well. The Blight then has a +22 bonus.

 

Hmm, I don't want to play a pure wizard though - too squishy. I also think in general multi-classing is better for my style, since caster/melee multi-class characters tend to be sturdy and have lots of passives - which means less micro-management for me! And the spells tend to come later and thus become less potent when I multi-class wizard. Hence, I thought auto-attacking is better for me.

 

Would dual scepter or even stuff like pistols work for the wizard multi-class? The main reason I want the wizard to be a part of the multi-class is that I recall how crucial his CC spells were in PoE 1, and that's what I want him for mainly.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

A Wizard is never squishy... neither do they arrive late.

 

I don't really know what setup your party has, but if you want a Wizard for his CC mainly, then perhaps you could look into a Cypher/Wizard, no subclasses. You only really need Borrowed Instincts from the Cypher side... although there are a few other skills that may interest you, like Mental Binding.

 

Have one of your tanks carry Kapana Taga--a great front line weapon, as it can make you immune to Flanked and gives you more armour. The modal of Kapana Taga, or any club for that matter, reduces Will. A Cipher Passive gives you more Accuracy when you target Will. Now your Borrowed Instincts has +35 accuracy almost from the start of the combat, but for the most part you can actually find an add that has pretty low Will, like dogs and imps. Once you cast it, all the rest of your CC will have +20 accuracy. On top of that Cypher has some weapon damage bonus, so you can experiment. If ranged auto-attack is a must, then why not carry both dual pistols and scepters, see which one you prefer. Also, Blights being available, you will have a way to generate a lot of focus, despite the somewhat mediocre damage, so you will have a lot of things to do after you've spent your Wizzie spells... although I doubt you will need to. You can also carry a Ring of Focused Flame, that together with your Borrowed Instincts will give your Fire Spells +30 Accuracy, which is never a bad thing. Furthermore, you will have some way of reducing enemy Reflex and armour, so those Fireballs may actually end up doing good work for you . 

[Boeroer]

If you want to play a multiclass wizard who does good auto-attack dmg then stuff like dual guns + rogue's strikes does considerable dps. Especially dual mortars with modal and Wizard/Streetfighter. Minor Blights also works. Both apply rogue's strikes in an AoE.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Another advantage of guns: they have no recovery but reload. But since you can't cancel recovery but reload you can always stop reloading and immediately cast a spell if you need to. For example Mirrored Image if you get attacked or Escape or whatever.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Yes, that's really big!

 

Why I always equip Xoti with a Pistol (with her lantern offhand). She can cast immediately when I need her to that way!

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

That actually reminds me of something. 

 

Why not combine some amount of debuffs and some amount of dps together?... Frostseeker fires multiple projectiles, that each reduce deflection with Confounding Strike. They also have AoE, although I don't know if that applies the effect in AoE. If it does, a Wizzie/Rogue can open up with Confounding Strike applying Deflection penalty to multiple foes... The damage will not be as great as guns or Blights, but will have greater synergy with the rest of the party.

 

Can't really think of a great way to buff CC in this situation, though. 

 

PS: anyone know how Confounding Strike and Blunderbusses work?

Edited September 26, 2018 by Hulk'O'Saurus

[Haplok]

That actually reminds me of something. 

 

Why not combine some amount of debuffs and some amount of dps together?... Frostseeker fires multiple projectiles, that each reduce deflection with Confounding Strike. They also have AoE, although I don't know if that applies the effect in AoE. If it does, a Wizzie/Rogue can open up with Confounding Strike applying Deflection penalty to multiple foes... The damage will not be as great as guns or Blights, but will have greater synergy with the rest of the party.

 

Can't really think of a great way to buff CC in this situation, though. 

 

PS: anyone know how Confounding Strike and Blunderbusses work?

 

Actually the opposite. Frostseeker aoe does not transport special attacks (although multiple projectiles are nice on the one main target). BUT the dual blunderbuss mortars or the Blights DO.

So you Cripple/Arterial Strike everyone in the aoe... or Confounding Blind/Gouge them... or Devastating Blow them.

Also works for Monk Stunning Blowing in mass aoe.

 

Does not work for Pierce the Bell Penetration bonus though, this only affects the main target.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Haplok

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Thanks for clarifying, dude. 

 

I never argued if Frostseeker was doing AoE effects of the Rogue strikes... I was actually wondering if it did, as I say in my post .

 

As far as Blunderbusses are concerned, I am just wondering if the multiple projectiles apply the effects of Confounding Strikes multiple times.  

[Lampros]

If you want to play a multiclass wizard who does good auto-attack dmg then stuff like dual guns + rogue's strikes does considerable dps. Especially dual mortars with modal and Wizard/Streetfighter. Minor Blights also works. Both apply rogue's strikes in an AoE.

 

Yes, that was exactly what I was considering. And then I would save stuff like Adragan's Gaze for the really tough fights? My only concern was: Do blunderbuss AoEs do friendly fire damage?

[Boeroer]

No. Foe only.

 

Why would you spare spells like Gaze of the Adragan for tough encounters? The 2 spell uses per level are per encounter. No need to spare anything.

 

By the way: high INT + Infuse wVE + Toxic Strike with a hand mortar is very effective. What's also effective is hand mortars + Combusting Wounds. Especially Fire in the Hole since it jumps 1 time.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

No. Foe only.

 

Why would you spare spells like Gaze of the Adragan for tough encounters? The 2 spell uses per level are per encounter. No need to spare anything.

 

By the way: high INT + Infuse wVE + Toxic Strike with a hand mortar is very effective. What's also effective is hand mortars + Combusting Wounds. Especially Fire in the Hole since it jumps 1 time.

 

PoE 1 habit!

[Elric Galad]

On 9/26/2018 at 7:20 AM, Boeroer said:

I don't know if the Blackbow now profits from Spirit of Decay. It didn't but maybe that got fixed.

Yep it does. I checked yesterday. But the ability isn't tagged Acid, so it won't benefit from being cast with chromoprismatic staff. It would have been only duration boost from PL but still disappointing. I will add the Keyword with my balance mod (it's similar enough with Druid's Flaming sword summon which is fire keyworded).

There are other acid Keyword missing here and there such as Minor Missile and Missile Salvo (does crush/corrode, so it counts) and Concelhaut Draining Siphon. Acid based (at least partially) builds would seem decent with these ones added.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Elric Galad

[AndreaColombo]

Keep in mind that adding the Acid keyword to something that does, say, Crush/Corrode means whenever you hit something immune to Corrode, you’ll deal no damage (i.e. they become immune to the whole attack, which is now keyworded Acid, so that the Crush part also doesn’t land.)

This was a problem with Frostfall as well, which was lacking the Frost keyword but, once added, couldn’t land Crush damage on frost-immune foes.

[Elric Galad]

28 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Keep in mind that adding the Acid keyword to something that does, say, Crush/Corrode means whenever you hit something immune to Corrode, you’ll deal no damage (i.e. they become immune to the whole attack, which is now keyworded Acid, so that the Crush part also doesn’t land.)

This was a problem with Frostfall as well, which was lacking the Frost keyword but, once added, couldn’t land Crush damage on frost-immune foes.

Indeed, but Acid Immune are quite rare and wizard can always switch spell. Spirit of Decay needs a bit of support.
Anyway, my main motivation is consistency of rules : spells with dual type of damages usually have tags, so I'd rather have all of them tagged (or not tagged, but I think tagged is better cause it opens build possibilities/encourages attacks diversity).